I am planning on buying the Bose Acoustimass 15 series speakers which come with 5 speakers and a bass. I asked the guy working there about EX and the center rear speaker, and he said that this system wasn't compatible - wouldn't I just be able to go buy a single speaker for the rear center and hook it up with a DD5.1EX receiver and get good use out of it? Or for some odd reason because this is a 5 speaker system, I wouldn't be able to? The guy confused me last night, but I thought you could just add another speaker...

So in short, if I have a 5 speaker system with an EX receiver can I just add another 6th center rear speaker no matter the original speaker system?

=Blake=
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I Do know one of the main problems with Bose is the upgrade ability or lack of. Are you sure you want to go with that? For the money you would be much better piecing your system together on your. Just my two cents..

Not familiar with this particular system, but if I remember correctly, some Bose systems home run all the wires back to the sub. If that's the case, then you might have a problem as the speakers may need to go through the sub in order to work.

If you're dead set on the Bose, you might ask him if the speakers will work with any HT receiver. If yes, then you are correct, hooking the 5 speakers and a sixth for the EX channel will work. If not, then you wouldn't even be able to use them with an EX receiver in the first place, so it would be a dead end.

But you might really want to check out some local HT shops and listen to other speaker setups. Bose speakers tend to be over priced and those tiny speakers can't produce a really good midrange like a full sized speaker could (of course, that's true for any small speakers).

-David

Because of what is IMHO poor design, the Bose cubes need to run with the "bass module", which is not a subwoofer and is an ineffective way of reproducing low midrange and bass frequencies. Blade is right that you may have to run any additional speakers through this unit, which may not be possible - not to mention the need to buy an additional subwoofer for LFE. In my opinion, you are better off spending a similar amount of money on another satellite system and then purchasing an additional surround speaker for the rear center. I have seen many people recommend Polk and Energy systems.

Also, go talk to a guy who doesn't confuse you. A speaker system should be as easily expandable as you described in your post.

Blake, what the salesperson most likely meant is that you can't add another Bose cube for the EX/ES channel. All of the cubes need to be run through the sub where the crossover is located. You could add another type/brand of speaker for that channel if you wanted.

Just as an opinion, if you are looking at Bose because you want the smallest speakers possible, there are a lot of other options out there that are very small sub/sat systems, and they sound 100 times as good.

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...post game show is brought to you by,......Christ I can't find it... To hell with it!

I definately have to agree with everyone else in this post about Bose. The little cubes in that Acoustimass system are way overpriced for what you are getting. You can find speakers that are just as small as the Bose cubes and also cheaper that would blow the Bose's out of the water. The sound quality is very poor for the amount of money you are spending. Try taking a look at the Energy Take 5 set of speakers with either an 8" or 10" sub. The energy set would destroy the Bose system in a side by side comparison and costs almost half as much. There are also many other brands that offer small speakers like the Bose cubes at much more reasonable prices and with better build quality.

Hey where's Bose Pro? A post about Bose speakers would not be complete without his defense of them.

Steer clear of Bose is possible. For one the sub really isn't a sub. It plays too high of frequencies to really blend into the satellites well (my brother has a Bose system, his was free though) and they don't sell those little cube speakers seperately. I've tried to find them because I was going to make a decent surround with them but it's impossible, unless you go directly through Bose. Anyhow, if you want little speakers and an incredible system to match everything go with these. www.roundsound.com It's Anthony Gallo Acoustics, they're 4" steel spheres and for $1500-1600 you can get 6 sattellites and a powered sub which would make a great EX system. There's a lot of better speakers out there but these produce some of the best voices in the business and do it small and stylish. If size is a constraint go with these otherwise any conventional speaker setup will do (M&K, Paradigm, Energy, Boston Acoustics, NHT, Monitor Audio, etc.). Sound and Vision did a good round up of under $1500 system back in September if you can find that issue take a look at it. They even include Bose stuff...

Good luck.

Thanks guys for all the responses. I wasn't 100% set on the Bose, and now I most likely won't get them.

The salesman did say they would work with any receiver, so from your responses I would be able to use a 6th speaker for EX, but then again, now that I see the responses to Bose speakers, I may have to go with something else.

I saw another post on the Energy speakrs and they looked pretty nice and were highly recommended, so I might go that way. I just need to get a receiver first though , then I'll get my speakers.

Thanks again,
=Blake=

Blake, don't give up on the Bose unless you hear them first hand. Most large front speakers over-power the center and rears. The bose provide truer highs, let the acoustimass handle the mid-ranges and a true sub will take care of your lows. I have a friend that spent near $5000 for his ULTRA THX certified equipment and speakers, I wanted his opinion on my much less expensive setup with the over-rated Bose AM12 system. I noticed a look of dissapointment as he listened to the Godzilla soundtrack and thought "it must be really bad." Yet he was disappointed in what he was getting from his much more expensive setup based on the discrete, punching output coming from my cube setup. Although my rear db levels are at 4db, the sound was obvious and distinct. The advantage, I believe is the lack of midrange and amplified highs. For instance, when glass shatters - you can almost count how many pieces are flying. I bought mine used from a friend for $800 so I'm very satisfied. And adding a 12" sub blended everything together beautifully. Give it a thorough listen before deciding against this system.

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"...want to see something really scary?"

Blake: I remember a similiar post a few months ago where someone even linked you to the 'Other' Forum with the thread: 'Moderator Blake is buying Bose!' so I guess you know the general opinion.

Having that said, I must agree. When I was in college I worked part-time in a A/V-store and we did sell bose there. The money you pay and the quality you get is not working out AT ALL! The only time when someone insisted on buying Bose was with the argument: 'nice, small speakers and a reasonable sound'. That's it.

If I were you, I would buy a decent set of speakers (brands like KEF also sell small speakers with excellent quality). For EX/ES you always need 7 speakers and 1 subwoofer.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DTS-Man:
I have a friend that spent near $5000 for his ULTRA THX certified equipment and speakers, I wanted his opinion on my much less expensive setup with the over-rated Bose AM12 system. I noticed a look of dissapointment as he listened to the Godzilla soundtrack and thought "it must be really bad." Yet he was disappointed in what he was getting from his much more expensive setup based on the discrete, punching output coming from my cube setup. Although my rear db levels are at 4db, the sound was obvious and distinct. The advantage, I believe is the lack of midrange and amplified highs. <HR>

I am sorry but I don't buy this for one second. There is no way ANY Bose system will sound better then a $5000 THX system. That is just hilarious to even think about. Your denfense of Bose speakers is that they lack midrange? That is absurd. How in god's name is this a selling point? A Mid-range is a very important aspect of sound and is very powerful in good non Bose speakers. A midrange is designed to reproduce specific mid level frequencies and will do a better job at this then the combined effort from the tweeter and woofer. Even if the speaker lacked a midrange, the tweeter and woofer would have to meet somewhere in the middle to cover those missing frequencies. Why not just leave out the tweeter or the woofer? I have heard dozens of Bose systems on all types of recievers and have always asked myself why people waste their money on this product. The bottom line is that the people who buy Bose are just buying the name and have not done research on speakers. If they had done any research they would find that they are getting ripped off and that there are many other speakers the size of Bose cubes that sound far superior for far less money.


[This message has been edited by ZenDog (edited December 19, 2000).]

EX involves 7 speakers?

I understood it to be:
Front right, center, and left.
Rear right, center, and left.

6 speakers + bass.

What am I missing here?

=Blake=

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blake:
EX involves 7 speakers?

I understood it to be:
Front right, center, and left.
Rear right, center, and left.

6 speakers + bass.

What am I missing here?

=Blake=<HR>

Last time I did the math, 6 speakers plus a subwoofer DID equal 7 speakers. EX/ES should really however, be 8 speakers. Even though the signal is a single mono channel, THX specs reccommend using two speakers for the channel.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Green Jello:
Last time I did the math, 6 speakers plus a subwoofer DID equal 7 speakers. EX/ES should really however, be 8 speakers. Even though the signal is a single mono channel, THX specs reccommend using two speakers for the channel.<HR>

Yes, 6 + Sub does equal 7, but exm posted:

quote:<HR>For EX/ES you always need 7 speakers and 1 subwoofer.<HR>

So I'm looking for that 7th he mentioned. And you mentioned THX specs recommending 2 speakers for the channel - which channel is that? The center front channel?

=Blake=

Some recommend that you install two speakers for the rear center channel.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blake:
And you mentioned THX specs recommending 2 speakers for the channel - which channel is that? The center front channel?

=Blake=<HR>

Sorry. I thought that was obvious. I meant the Surround Back channel for EX/ES.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by ZenDog:
I am sorry but I don't buy this for one second. There is no way ANY Bose system will sound better then a $5000 THX system. That is just hilarious to even think about. Your denfense of Bose speakers is that they lack midrange? That is absurd. How in god's name is this a selling point? A Mid-range is a very important aspect of sound and is very powerful in good non Bose speakers. A midrange is designed to reproduce specific mid level frequencies and will do a better job at this then the combined effort from the tweeter and woofer. Even if the speaker lacked a midrange, the tweeter and woofer would have to meet somewhere in the middle to cover those missing frequencies. Why not just leave out the tweeter or the woofer? I have heard dozens of Bose systems on all types of recievers and have always asked myself why people waste their money on this product. The bottom line is that the people who buy Bose are just buying the name and have not done research on speakers. If they had done any research they would find that they are getting ripped off and that there are many other speakers the size of Bose cubes that sound far superior for far less money.


[This message has been edited by ZenDog (edited December 19, 2000).]<HR>

Believe Dat Maaaaan!! I'm not saying that there aren't better speakers out there. But for the money I spent, I was surprised to hear something positive from someone with a far superior setup. (All Denon equip. w/THX cert. JBL's.) So don't get all bent. But along the same subject, I have another friend with these monster Klipsch horns for his L/R and maybe it's the size of his room but you can't hear his RS/LS at all. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.



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"...want to see something really scary?"

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DTS-Man:
But along the same subject, I have another friend with these monster Klipsch horns for his L/R and maybe it's the size of his room but you can't hear his RS/LS at all. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
<HR>

The only reason I would go hmmmmm is because I am curious to why your friend hasn't balanced his speakers. Tell him to get an SPL meter from Rat Shack and then balance his 5 speakers. It is easiest to do this by emitting test tones through the reciever. He may need to turn the rear channels up a few DB but thats it. It has nothing to do with his HT setup just a lack of calibration.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blake:

So I'm looking for that 7th he mentioned. And you mentioned THX specs recommending 2 speakers for the channel - which channel is that? The center front channel?

=Blake=[/B]<HR>

Dolby Digital 5.1 EX and DTS 5.1 ES (aka THX Surround EX) adds an additional channel for rear processing. You need two amplifiers and speakers for this channel despite the fact that the same signal is being send to both speakers. DTS 6.1 ES works the same, only the rear signal is discrete (means steered directly) instead of matrix (encoded from surround mix).

So you need:
Front Left, Center, Front Right
Side Left, Side Right
Rear Left, Rear Right
Makes a total of 7 plus 1 subwoofer is 7.1 or 8 if you like.


[This message has been edited by exm (edited December 20, 2000).]

To end all confusion:
1999 saw the introduction of Dolby Digital Surround EX® (known in the home as THX Surround EX® as it is licensed for domestic use by the THX division of Lucasfilm Inc.) THX Surround EX adds a monaural surround back channel to the usual complement of five full-range and one bandwidth limited channels of a 5.1 system. This is achieved by matrix encoding the surround back (SB) channel into the two existing discrete surround channels, surround left (SL) and surround right (SR). A decode matrix then extracts the channel upon playback via a SR + SL = SB sum (similar to the way in which a Pro-logic® system extracts a centre channel) and conveys it to two loudspeakers.

It has been stated that DTS Extended Surround (DTS ES) is a competing but compatible format, this is however incorrect. The name "DTS ES" applies to Digital Theater System's theatrical EX adapter, the competitor to Dolby's SA-10, and not to a 5.1 format enhancement. When an additional surround back channel is delivered by DTS, it is done so by using the technology developed by Dolby and DTS pays a license fee accordingly. Therefore, the correct name for an EX-encoded soundtrack delivered by DTS is: DTS Digital Surround Dolby Digital Surround EX. This is not to be confused with DTS ES 6.1 Discrete, an entirely different format which is indeed correctly described using the term "6.1" as it does deliver six discrete channels of full-range information plus an LFE channel.

To explain why THX Surround EX is not a "6.1" format we need to understand the two abbreviation systems used to describe discrete and matrix systems.

In a matrix system – Dolby Surround® being the obvious example – a given number of channels are folded on encode into a smaller number and then extracted on decode. In the case of Dolby Surround, left, centre, right and surround are added to a carrier with just two channels, they’re then known as left total and right total (Lt and Rt). Because four channels have been combined into two, the system is abbreviated as 4:2. On decode, the Pro-logic matrix extracts all four channels, so this is known as a 2:4 system.

In discrete systems such as Dolby Digital and DTS, in simplistic terms, each channel is encoded individually and they remain so throughout the entire signal path through to decode.

Because both Dolby Digital and DTS most commonly transfer five channels and a bandwidth limited low frequency effects (LFE) channel, they’re known as "5.1" formats. This in itself is a shortened version of the true
abbreviation which would be 3/2.1. The figure before the oblique indicates the number of discrete channels in the front half of the room, the figure after the oblique those that can be found in the rear of the room and once more the LFE is indicated as present: ".1". Two-channel Dolby Digital is written as 2/0.0 (no centre, no surrounds and no LFE) whereas a DTS music disc quad mix is represented as 2/2.0 (no centre and no LFE), the region 1 Dolby Digital release of 'La Femme Nikita' has mono surrounds and no LFE, so is 3/1.0... and so on.

As THX Surround EX combines both discrete and matrix encode systems, for it to be correctly represented numerically we must combine both abbreviation conventions. "6.1" is commonly used, but as we have learnt that indicates six full-range discrete channels plus an LFE, which is not the case given the matrix encode and decode of the new surround back channel. If we are ever to see a true discrete 6.1 system, then describing EX as "6.1" will prove to be even more misleading. Dolby’s own policy is "...to never use "6.1" in our literature..." and they agree about the current state of confusion.

Surround back is matrix encoded into surround left and surround right, so three channels have been folded into a two-channel carrier. They are recovered in the same way – a 2:3 decode system (two discrete channels containing a third matrix encoded channel).
Dolby Digital Surround EX soundtracks do of course still have three discrete front channels and an LFE channel, so we must add the 2:3 rear channel abbreviation to the whole – 3/2:3.1 being the result.

(source: http://www.smr-home-theatre.org)

[This message has been edited by exm (edited December 22, 2000).]