hanshotfirst1138

While I have no home theater equipment to speak of (my DVD player is still connected to my CRT T.V. via coaxial splitter, for Frith's sake), the DVD companies, being the bastards that they are, have forced almost all of the extras that a fanboy such as I wants to see on the BR, I've decided, that with prices finally at manageable points, I'll begrudgingly have decided to join the switchover. I have, however a few questions. I do know that some Blu-Ray players, hopefully most, are backwards compatible with DVD. I also know that Blu-Ray, like DVD before it, has the accursed region coding that film buffs have so come to hate. Can a BR player be simply hacked in the same way a regular DVD player can? If so, will said hack likewise allow me to play any region DVD? A quick look at the box tells me about various other features: Netflix Instant Viewing, wireless (a necessity for me, as I don't have Ethernet connections anywhere except the front room) and so forth. There was a sale at work the other day and between the coupon and my discount I could've gotten a great deal on a player from a brand call Vizio, but indecided to do a little research first and see what I'm getting into. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Sdallnct

Wow...ok...I'll try...

Yes. BD players will play DVD's
Some. Some players you can hack. And depending on the player and the hack will yield different things.
Net Connection - not a requirement to watch movies. But I recommend. Most players have firmware upgrades from time to time and most can be upgraded over the net. So even if your not into Netflix, Pandora, YouTube or whatever, it is nice to have the net connection.
Vizio. I consider Vizio a 2nd tier brand. They have a big following, fair reviews and generally can save you a little money. However, as you have said, prices have come down. You can often find a Sony, Samsung or other "top" brand player very close to the Vizio price. Note-I'm not saying the Vizio is bad. I know little about it.

Oh and most importantly. You NEED a surround system.

Drexl

FYI, BD regions are somewhat less restrictive than DVD and are broken into fewer divisions.



If your interest was in discs from Japan or Korea, for instance, note that they are in the same region (A) as the US. However, discs from Europe may be locked to region B, so if you wanted to play those you'd need a region-free or hacked player. And of course, any regional restrictions for the DVD functionality would still be in effect.

story

I'm in a similar situation to the OP, finally deciding prices are down enough that the extras-heavy blu-ray may be worth the switch over bare-bones DVDs, even if I still feel this decision wasn't left up to the consumers.

But anyway...

We're looking to get a blu-ray player and are trying to decide between getting a Philips stand-alone Blu-Ray player or a new Philips Blu-Ray surround sound home theater system to replace our current Philips DVD surround sound home theater system. Yeah, I know. There are probably better players out there but right now our Philips DVD player matches our Philips HDTV and the two nearly-identical remote controls we have are pretty cool. Maybe that's a silly reason to want a Philips Blu-Ray player but, well, there are plenty of oddball collector quirks on this message board...

The question is, should we go for the blu-ray player home theater system to replace our current DVD home theater system or just get a blu-ray player and use our current sound system? Is there ever any danger of a blu-ray player not wanting to play our DVDs? Is our DVD player destined to collect dust if we keep it? Just trying to decide if we should try and sell the current system to help make a little scratch for the new system or if we should keep it and buy just the blu-ray player.

Thanks.

Spiky

Also wow. Hmm......

to hanshotfirst113:
Couple issues to think about.
- Region free BD is not cheap. Period. If cheap is more important than region free, shop the best price for the Panasonic BD85 and don't look back. If region free is more important, save up.
- You say you are connected via coax right now? That is very uncommon for DVD, most players never had that option. Is that correct? And if so, are you using a modulator, I presume? If so, you should be able to do the same with a BD player, but you are really throwing the baby out with the bathwater, here. See my last point with the *.
- Finding a region free player, with PAL-NTSC converter, with wireless may not even be possible. You need the converter for any PAL DVDs to play on an American SDTV, BDs will be fine most likely, but not the DVDs.
Choices:
- This Sony has everything but the PAL converter. Which they would be happy to sell you for another $150 or so.
- Or check this comment on Amazon, it could be a partial answer. Pair this solution with a player that does have the PAL-NTSC converter and you have everything. (note that this site is usually cheaper than the first one I linked, when they have the same model)
- Or just wait for the ultimate machine to start shipping, and get converted to region free, which will likely happen next year.

* You may just want to upgrade to an HDTV. This will likely solve any PAL-NTSC issues you may have (shop for PAL compatibility), it gets you caught up with today's TV tech (because other incompatibilities will likely start popping up), and it just plain looks better with superior color and resolution.


to dogmatica:
- Yes, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung would be better choices, IMO. They don't cost that much more, the Panny BD65 has been $120 on Amazon for months, now. It's not like it's $400 more than a cheap brand.
- And choosing anything based on the remote is backwards. Try choosing your remote, instead. It is the only device you truly interact with regularly. So spend a little thought, effort, and even money on the remote. Harmony remotes can be found for as little as $50 refurb every day and are a great way to make everything work easily. And with only one remote instead of 2 or more laying around.

But on the equipment choice:
- With an in-the-box system, input is an issue. So you would need to verify that your current system is capable of taking an input from a new bluray player. It may not have the HDMI input that would be simplest. It may have an optical input, and you can run HDMI to the TV and optical to the surround sound just for audio.
- Note that this is why we tend to recommend against all-in-one systems. When some part of it breaks, or becomes old or even obsolete, you have to replace the whole thing.
- There should not be a problem with a BD player and DVDs. They all play DVDs, and other than the day it inevitably breaks, should play them forever.
- So, a full replacement of player and audio equipment is probably the safest route. But you are just setting yourself up for the same issue again.

Mr. Salty

I'd like to add that while yes, Blu-ray has region restrictions, several of the major studios have not implemented them. This is the case with Sony, Universal, Warner Bros, maybe Disney, too, but I'm not sure. I have several European releases and only one of them is region locked. You also don't have the PAL to NTSC conversion issue with Blu-ray (although it might be an issue on extras, I've not encountered it).

story

That's all interesting, thank you. So if people aren't inclined to get the all-in-one system, what are people doing for their surround sound systems? Obviously, I'm pretty new to the home theater game.

Spiky

In the price range of HTiBs, I would stick with a audio-only HTiB (with appropriate inputs), and a separate bluray player.

joshmos

@dogmatica: A nice Home Theatre Receiver can be purchased relatively cheaply. it will do more, last longer and pay off in the long run. I wouldn't normally suggest "chintzing" on the Receiver, as this is the main spine of any HT system, but even a budget Receiver like the Pioneer VSX-520 will do a better job and have more ports and options for upgrade than an all-in-one HT in a box will.

I know the cheap HTIB solution is enticing, but if you are posting here, you enjoy movies and HT hardware a bit more than the average person, so it will pay off in the long run to invest a little, just a little, in your HT.

Also as mentioned above, Region Free Blu-Ray is not really as big an issue unless you want Blu discs from Europe and even then, a lot of those discs, and many discs everywhere, are made Region 0 or All Play. I am a big exporter of discs from Japan and Korea and was THRILLED to find out America is the same Region in Blu-Ray code!!

Good luck and enjoy!

Gojhawks

For many of us, the sound advantage of blu ray is very important. In order to get the lossless sound from Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master Audio HD, you will need a receiver that has HDMI inputs and can accept these formats. That is why you should consider at the least upgrading to a blu ray HTiB.

I agree is it best if at all possible to pick up an entry level receiver and speakers. There are many options for basic 5.1 surround packages. You will be blown away at how much better it all sounds. The other thing to consider is if you go with a receiver and separate speakers, you can slowly upgrade over time if you want. You don't have to start all over again each time.

story

I like the sound of this, people. Thank you.

However...

I am paralyzed by choice. Any idea where and how to start? $500 may be a max to start with and see where I need to go from there right now.

Mr. Salty

That isn't accurate at all. You can also get lossless audio with a Blu-ray player that has a built-in decoder for the formats (many of them do) and a receiver that has multichannel analog inputs.

Spiky

LOL. Make up your mind. High quality or low quality?

Sdallnct

Not only is this not correct (that you need HDMI for lossless in a receiver), you don't even need lossless period.

If your on a budget. Especially if your on a tight budget. Lossless maybe the last thing I'd worry about. There is nothing wrong with good O'l basic 5.1 "lossy" sound. I get the feeling the two people posting about looking for BD have no surround system and if they were to consider it would be a basic, inexpensive system.

Your never going to hear or acknowledge lossless with a cheap system. Your much better off putting your limited budget to better speakers or better sub than trying to go lossless. It would make a more significant improvement in sound.

If I were on a tight budget, I'd really look at the used market. People are dumping there very good receivers that are only a couple years old to get HDMI, then dumping them to get lossless and than dumping them to get 3D. Next year they will be dumping them for whatever cool new blue light is out next.

And as mentioned if you happen upon a great deal on a couple year old receiver, if you really want lossless, just get a BD player with analog outs that can decode lossless for you instead of the receiver.

hanshotfirst1138

Yes, well, I need a new car first.

So you can't just do what you did with DVD and buy a general player and hack it with the remote?

I had a VHS\DVD combo player for years that did, so I can't speak for regular DVD players.

That's why I was wondering what about the region issue, so as to avoid a splitter or needing to switch off whenever I wanted to watch a DVD I bought from Amazon UK.

Yeah, I know, but if I want the extras that the companies are using to force the changeover, I'm going to have to make due.

I conjecture that DVD and BR of course use different software on the same machine and that's the difficulty in doing both?
So basically I can connect a PAL converter separately and fly?



So this will basically be a machine that can be hacked to play all regions of BR and DVD out of the box on a single machine with wireless? And it's coming along in the near future.

I know. Again, I live in a state surrounded by Great Lakes in the wintertime. I'll be needing a new car soon. Would anyone at a place like Best Buy or ABC Warehouse, etc. even know about PAL conversion, region codes, etc.?

Sounds perfectly reasonable.

The inexpensive univeral remotes I've had in recent years have given me nothing but trouble. DVD players and even cheap CRT TVs now are just too specialized in their functions for me to find satisfactory Universals.

joshmos

@hanshotfirst113 It is confusing. Or at least it is to me as well. I am buying my parents a Panasonic DMP-BD85 AND a Phillips 3560 cheap as heck regular DVD Player because it is easily hacked and up-converts nicely.

The only other option, as I see it, being that I am not very tech savvy, is to buy an already hacked Blu Player, which are expensive. If you Google Region Free Blu Ray Player, you will find one or two sites that sell them. The difference with Blu-Ray players is that they connect to the internet and upgrade their software on a regular basis. Every time they upgrade the region code is set back to the original setting. They have made it extremely difficult to hack, you need some sottering tools and expertise in mechanically fixing it permanently.

But as I said in my post above many, many Blu-Ray Discs, from ALL over the world are Region Free. And Korea and Japan are in the same Region as USA now.

Mr. Salty

With Panasonic and Sony players, yes. But if you're willing to spend the money on an Oppo player all you need is a $40 mod kit, a screwdriver and five minutes to permanently render it region-free.

hanshotfirst1138

Why is actual physical alteration of the hardware necessary? Moreover, are such thing legal or in the grey area?

Mr. Salty

I don't know; I'm not en engineer. But apparently the Blu-ray Consortium is being much stricter about enforcing region codes for Blu-ray than the DVD group was, which is why you don't see very many (if any) players that can be made region-free with a simple remote code. It's also probably why whenever firmware has been hacked the next firmware update disables the hack. That's very likely why a hardware mod is the best solution. In the case of Oppo, all you have to do is take the cover off the player and replace one data cable. No soldering or tools involved, other than the screwdriver to remove the cover.

I would say gray area. Blu-ray players that have been modified to be region-free have been for sale for quite a while, and the mod kits are readily available online, especially eBay, as well. I haven't seen or heard of any attempt by the Blu-ray Consortium to stop them, and eBay will take down an auction pretty quickly if a rights holder complains. So, while manufacturers may not like it, they seem to be legal. But in addition to my not being an engineer, I'm also not a lawyer.

I am, however, region-free and loving it!

Sdallnct

I see no point in upgrading to BD than. Your not getting a HD TV and your not getting surround sound.

Are some titles you want that are exclusive to BD? If so, than start buying those, but get your car and get settled and save your money up. Save up for a system of HD TV (even a 32" 720p HD TV) and surround (even $300 system).

I see no point in getting a BD player to not take advantage of about 90% of what it has to offer.

Plus by waiting you will likely have more options in your region issue thing.

Spiky

Go reliability before all other thoughts.
As Salty will point out, BDs are often not restricted with the regions, even though they could be. There are some players that are DVD region free, but not BD. They may work for you, and are often cheaper models.

Not software, TV format. NTSC is different from PAL, and those are the old choices, found on DVD. If you have a PAL DVD, it needs to be converted to NTSC to play on your SDTV. HDTV is all one format (ATSC), so other countries' bluray discs aren't an issue.

That should work in this particular scenario. If you were to shop such a device, make sure it goes in the correct direction. There's PAL-NTSC, NTSC-PAL, and some that go both ways.

Yep, Oppo's lowest priced model yet, $500.

It got all the way to 10 above today! Nice afternoon. 10 goes well with our new 17" of snow.

You're not serious?!? LOL!

One word will change your life:
Learning.

I was wrong though, the Harmonys start at $40 new. The thing about them is they know if your TV, DVDp, etc. are on or off, and operate them accordingly. Much simpler for many people.

hanshotfirst1138

Honda Civic? I was thinking an Impala or an Altima or Malibu because I like bigger stuff, being six feet, but this weather really has me thinking about AWD options. Accord is too expensive, and got to consider fuel efficiency too. Decisions, decisions....

I was thinking of getting something reliable and inexpensive for the time being and getting something really good when I start making more dinero and and building home theater.

Can't you circumvent that by buying the right TV?

I presume this is a mediator between the BR player and the TV?

Yep, definately should wait. Or I could just get a PS3.

Sounds fun. Where're you? Sure hope you've got a truck.

Yeah, kind of didn't figure. Anyplace where someone would?

Learn what and where?

Cool. I've got to stop going to Radioshack then.

story

...So okay. Just get some speakers and one of those receiver things, then.

Mr. Salty

He means a learning remote, one that can be taught commands from your factory remote so there are almost no limits as to what it can do.

Well, yes.

Spiky

Try Hyundai for nearly the same quality, now. (it's not 1995, anymore) Lower prices, longer warranty just in case. I looked at Honda, Toyota back in 2006, bought a Sonata for $2-3000 less than Accord/Camry. 116000 miles later, almost no problems.

Sure, throwing money at electronics problems usually fixes them, if you have the money. We recommend a 1080p projector with a homemade 100" screen. Depends on model, but generally will play almost any video display format known to humans at this time.

It would be, yes.

I'm in Minneapolis metro. Have one awd vehicle, has been most useful last weekend. Fared better than the Metrodome. Oops, sorry, that's "Mall of America Field". The Vikes get to play outside this coming Monday. A cast of thousands is currently scurrying around to get the college stadium ready again, it had been shut down for winter.