Please do not buy a Sony receiver. Please.

Are you just anti-Sony or do you have a particular reason? As mentioned pretty much everything I have is Sony and I've never had a problem w/ anything (aside from a walkman one time that I treated like trash so it's not surprising it died).

I'm so anti-Sony that I own a PS3?

Sony is a bit high on price and a bit low on quality, but they do usually throw in everything and the kitchen sink. Plus they excel at user interfaces. There are certainly better deals to be had in the lower range, but I love their ES line of products. Pretty much any shit that people on this forum talk about Sony receivers does not apply to their ES stuff.

All of my home theater equipment is Sony, and other than an old VCR I've never had a single problem. I'm going to be extremely sad when I have to trade in my STR-DA4ES receiver for one that has HDMI.

The biggest problem with Sony receivers is they sound like crap. I couldn't care less about features so long as the receiver has a quality sound.

Sony (including ES, to an extent) has the worst amps in the marketplace. They make amps capable of around 10-15 watts/channel, then abuse (euphemistically called: "marketing") the specs til it matches the "industry standard" 100wpc rating that makes people think they have something great. So the power and sound are very poor, esp considering they charge just as much or more than other major mfgrs.

Now, every company is pretty close to this marketing atrocity on the low end receiver market. But Sony is the worst, and this continues well up the line into their so-called high-end models with the amps that just plain can't match other companies'. A good choice in the low-end (I mean

We'll just have to disagree then While they have had a spotty record with their first digital amps, the recent models seem to get great reviews. My model is from the last all analog ES line and I haven't heard seen/heard anything better in quality matching the price I paid.

They bring a lot to the table video wise as well, which is just as important to me as the audio side.

I'm just asking... you said don't buy Sony but you give no reasoning for it. There are some people out there who are anti-Sony and won't buy anything they put out. I'm sure there are some who are anti-Sony when it comes to having options (so the fact the PS3 is exclusively Sony means they'll buy it but anything else that is offered by someone else they'll pick it up from someone else). So what was the reason behind your statement/opinion?

I really have no basis on which to argue w/ this statement/opinion. Personally I've always thought Sony receivers sounded pretty good but then again I'm not too particular. I haven't done an extensive search but so far for the price range it does include 3 HDMI input ports where as most of the other ones only have 2.

This seems to have a favorable review of the 910 http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html It's by Daniel Kumin, anyone familiar w/ this site/reviewer?

Just like most of the other sentiment here - Sony receivers are crap. They are unreliable, output poor quality sound, feature subpar build quality, problem-ridden and not a good value for the money. You pay more for the brand name than anything else. I love Sony products, but not their receivers (or speakers, for that matter).

The bottom line is that in that price range are several better options, including Onkyo, Yamaha and Pioneer.

IMHO, the Sony's (ok I'll give the benefit of the doubt to "most Sony's) just suck at sound. Power is another issue and Spikey did his masterful job explaining that. IMO, the Sony's go well beyond being different. I find them harsh, thin very tinny sounding, with no depth or soundstage.

I've told this story many a times, so I'll be brief: I had a Sony surround receiver, thought it was decent enough. I mean I also have a tubed 2-channel amp, and of course it didn't compare to that, but thought it was decent enough. Bought a new speakers from a maker I'm familiar with and was so disappointed in the sound, I about took the speakers back. But then thought I'd upgrade the receiver, since I was going to need a 2nd receiver anyway for another room. Listened to other Sony's in stores, no better. So strictly based on reviews looking for good sounding receivers I picked up an H/K directly from Harmon. It was a world of difference. 1st off, the H/K at 40 watts per channel was significantly more powerful then the Sony rated at 85-90 watts per channel. Next the highs were smooth and tight. The mid's were now natural and the bass tight. But perhaps the biggest difference besides the highs were how the sound now unfolded before. It was like 3-D sound compared to the Sony that sounded almost Mono in comparison.

Since that time I bought a 2nd set of the same speakers and a 2nd H/K receiver for our dedicated theater room.

I just wanted to comment that I don't really understand the "powerful" argument with regards to loudness. Odds are you never took the Sony above 40W per channel either. A 90W Sony would be capable of volume levels a little over 3dB greater than your H/K at 40W, or barely any volume difference... and that's with the volume knobs on max. Now there could potentially be a big difference in the distortion at max volume, or dynamic responsiveness to certain passages (bass in particular) in the music, so if that's what you meant by "powerful" then I apologize for misunderstanding. The whole wattage rating wars just really bug me because of how much hype is involved, and how little difference it actually makes.

That's exactly how my Sony ES sounds.

1st. The Sony would simply not get as loud. This is a very large room and I could easily tell the volume difference
2nd. The Sony sounded even worse at high levels. It was very screetchy and pretty much unlistenable maxed out.
3rd. The H/K easily was much louder. It was not close
4th. The H/K sounded very good even at high volumes
5th. The H/K had more substance and depth to the music and was still very dynamic at high levels.

I don't know if it was the distoration or what. I feel a big part of it is simply the power supply. The Sony is physically very light and runs cool. The H/K is a very heavy unit with a huge power supply and when listening at high volume for an extended period it does get "warm". Not hot, but enough to notice.

Interesting. Maybe I'm not understanding something about why it wouldn't get loud. Crappy sound sure, but it should be able to drive the speakers with the power you specify. The only thing I could guess is that maybe you were using 4ohm speakers. I know that Sony (unlike almost every other receiver brand) drops power output (usually 10-20W) when going from the 8ohm to 4ohm setting. It's actually a CE safety/compliance issue with regard to heat output I think, but there's actually no reason to switch to the 4ohm setting unless you plan on playing your receiver at max volume constantly. Besides that I'm at a loss.

You are absolutely correct in that low end Sonys do have crappy power supplies though. Weight is definitely a good indicator of that sort of thing. My 4ES weighs in at 46lbs and within 5 minutes of turning it on you can't touch the top of it more than a few seconds without burning your hand. It's actually somewhat annoying since I need about 10 inches of clearance above it in my rack. I saw pictures of a guy on another forum who stacked his DVD player on top of it, and the feet melted into the receiver ruining both

Ok, I think it's time for another amp discussion. First I will say that when going from 8ohm to 4ohm the power should double, by definition of electricity. Now, few amps truly double it since they simply can't output that kind of power. But I'm off topic....

An amp should be rated in a certain way. Look to the marketing material to see the specifics, it is very important if you want to do any shopping on paper. (meaning not just listening to different amps) It should look something like this:

100 wpc into 8 ohms, all channels driven, RMS (or continuous average power), 20Hz-20KHz, .05%THD.

That means all 5/7 channels were tested at the same time, ALL outputting 100 watts into an 8ohm load. It means it is technically measured in the proper manner (RMS), and using a signal (likely white noise) that encompassed the entire range of human hearing. With very low Total Harmonic Distortion. If you want to see a perfect rating, check out Outlaw Audio amps. They actually recommend 2 electrical circuits to run their flagship 7 channel amp it sucks so much power.
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Low-end amps will look more like this:

100 Watts x 5 Amplifier Power (8 ohms, 1Khz, 1.0% THD)

That's audible THD, measured one channel at a time in only 1 frequency out of thousands we can hear. That's what "100 watts x 5" means, they measured one channel, and there are five of them. Marketing-speak, it doesn't mean they measured all running together.
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Here's the best I've ever seen from a Sony at $300:

95 watts x 6 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.09% THD

But it still measures one channel at a time, without the proper measurement system.

Doubling power would be nice. I wish I could find the link to the explanation as to why Sony drops their wattage back at 4ohm impedence. Maybe I'll look around some more.

I'd love to buy an Outlaw amplifier, but if I'm dropping $1k, I'd like it to do more than just power the speakers. I'm not that big a nut

That's actually not terrible specs for a Sony at $300... I'm surprised they are that good honestly. Still, and maybe I'm giving way to much benefit of the doubt, that 95W has got to be RMS right? I've seen peak power ratings on stereos before and they usually quote much higher wattages. There's no way that 95W is anything other than RMS.

Edit: according to wikipedia the FTC passed a resolution in '74 requiring power output to be listed using RMS. Take that for what it's worth.

If it doesn't say it, it doesn't mean it. The rule has become (I don't have links, but this is what goes on now) that they must print exactly what they measured, and how. They don't actually have to measure it properly, as my quoted rating at only 1KHz (a cheaper Sony) above shows. (unless they are claiming that receiver is only supposed to power a speaker capable of only one frequency, they're also breaking that part of the rule you quoted)

Sony tends to push amps to the limit and then give the last rating as the test amp blows up. That is NOT continuous power or RMS. The drop in power when going to a 4 ohm load is another bit of evidence of this. It simply is not that powerful and should never be rated that high. If it was rated properly, let's assume 20wpc, the proper 4ohm rating would probably work out correctly at 40wpc. What surprised me was the THD rating, usually they are much worse. They've put out some with 10% ratings.

Why sell yourself short with a $1000 Outlaw? Outlaw's top amp is $3500 and can power any speaker known to man (actually, seven of them) loud enough to blow your ears.

I forgot to mention. It was mentioned that most people probably have never used even 40 watts from their receiver. But in reality most people have probably never used 2 watts from their receiver. 40w from most receivers would send the amp into clipping and shut it off, assuming it had a protection circuit. I know my $1500 MSRP receiver is really only capable of about 45wpc (when using 5 channels, less for all 7), even though its rating claims 110w x7.

From rereading some things on another forum, it's not the power aspect, it's the heat generated. Honestly, I don't know why that would happen. I would think trying to drive a speaker with less impedence would mean less work/heat for the receiver. Maybe you can shed some light?

Yes I should have pointed that out originally. It would be nice to own a 300W 7 channel Outlaw (with 0.05% THD ), but as you pointed out I'd be wasting a lot of watts. I originally had somewhat inefficient speakers hooked up to my receiver so, sitting two meters back I might have topped 2W. With the 93dB-1W@1m speakers I have now I'm guessing I never crack a single watt continuous. I enjoy my hearing.

Thanks for the help/advice everyone I ran the test and as suspected the signal didn't pass through the TV (atleast the multichannel indicator didn't lite up, I haven't been able to connect the speakers yet), I figured it wouldn't but it was worth a shot I'm sure to the chagrin of some people (or maybe even most people here ) I went ahead and picked up the 910. As mentioned most reviews sound favorable and to be honest I don't push my amps to the limit and I don't have a good enough ear to distinguish half the things you guys are talking about. All I really need is the proper channel out of the proper speaker and features like the extra HDMI ports.

Now, if someone wants to recommend some speakers though I'd appreciate it. I currently have a 5.1 Athena set (this one I believe http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1077624907950) which again works well enough for my purposes and I may hang on to as I'm already blowing my budget out of the water What I would like though is a 7.1 set preferably w/ thin/easily wall mounted surround/back speakers. Preferably w/o spending a lot of money, but those seem to be mutually exclusive

I hear the Athena are pretty good for the money. If you are not ready to drop some $$ you might want to stick with them for now. If you don't want to spend a lot (and I'm not sure what a lot is for you), you may have trouble significantly upgrading.

I did listen to the Athena once, and thought they were "nice". This is a really good deal, but you would have to track down two more for a 7.1 set up (but that wouldn't be that hard),

edit: it looks like the price had gone up to $600, but they have been on sale on and off for $500. These are normally sold for around $800 to $1000.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/KEF-H...oductDetail.do

But as much of a KEF fan as I am, I don't know if would be enough of an upgrade to your Athena's to be worth it.

You might want to save up your lunch money so that you can get a significant upgrade and look at something like, Paradigm, NHT, and if you want compact, maybe that little Mirage set up.

Enjoy the new receiver. Hopefully you don't have any components with S-Video out

I can't really offer recommendations for sat/sub combos (since I don't usually recommend those ) but for deals, find what you want and then camp out on Craiglist. Can usually find some good deals, and speakers don't normally breakdown (although I might be wary of buying a used sub from a teenager).

Yeah I noticed the s-video thing but that's no big deal. The TV still has several inputs if I really want to go that route.


How are Onkyo speakers? Amazon has a couple of 7.1 setups for

[QUOTE=nemein]Yeah I noticed the s-video thing but that's no big deal. The TV still has several inputs if I really want to go that route.


How are Onkyo speakers? Amazon has a couple of 7.1 setups for

Thanks for all the help/advice