Curious. Do you? If so, what brand/size? Anyone?

If you do, pics of your set up please?

You're still thinking about it, huh?

I keep looking at them in stores and I still don't like them except for the cool factor.

Yeah... now leaning back towards getting one. The cool factor is part of it for sure. But for me there are some extenuating issues.

1. Tax deductability. I can't justify writing off that widescreen large set. But I intend on using the plasma for trade shows and demonstrations. It's portable.

What this means is that I end up paying less for plasma, so a $6000 set will cost me $4000 or so. Which is not too much more than the other direct view set I was considering.

2. I was looking at a direct view 16:9 set, and the plasma will be larger.

3. The plasma will sit on a fireplace mantel and will only displace a painting on the wall. That would open up a large wall area where a built in TV now is. I would use that for more components and that would create more storage areas. If I stay with a new built in TV, I will need to also build in some new wall cabinets for more components. I am maxed out of space.

Major downsides:

A) Price. It still costs more.
B) Burn in issues. Maybe I worry too much, but I like not having to think about this. It appears one just takes small steps and all is well.
C) Screen life. I understand plasma is finite. Well everything is of course, but I would not be happy unless the set lasts 10 years.
D) 42" or 50"? I have read somethings about a 50" set being a much better choice for HDTV and computer use? They are quite a bit more $ though.

Decisions, decisions....

Yeah, I understand.

I got a reseller catalog a couple of days ago from a company called Active Light. They have Pioneer, NEC, Hitachi, Panasonic, LG, Sony, Samsung and Sharp in there. If you want prices on any of these brands I can check with them and see if they're any deal.

You can't use a projector, right? You don't have adequate light control?

A plasma screen is fragile and pretty heavy to be lugging to trade shows. A projector is very easy to transport. Just a thought.

I have one at work

I have hooked it up as a monitor for cad we even took some photos as a joke.

Here is my spin -

The entry models are not that good. The black level is not perfect on the high end models and is crap on the lower priced ones. Also look at pixelation, on most I have seen it is pretty bad unless you are at least 10' away. Last issue is trails with fast movement.

Randy where are you located at ?

San Diego!

Personally, I won't buy a television again until I can afford a plasma TV. We have one here at work and I'm in love with it (42" NEC I believe). I compare it to our 60" projection here at work and it blows it away. I went to the Auto Show here today in Atlanta and there were Plasma TV's everywhere...they all looked exceptional...I want one, and will get one eventually.

Not sure if this might be another point against plasma, but I know laptop screens are really expensive to fix. Wouldn't the same hold true for a plasma screen? Might be something to consider.

And X makes a good point about the front projector.

-David

I am not very familiar with projectors. What I do know from years ago is that they were not cheap and the lights in the projector had a finite life?

A concern is this. When I watch the TV, for the most part it will be for a movie and I would have no problem with setting it up. But the rest of the family will use the TV for the typical "flip the set on and plop on the couch and watch Oprah" kind of viewing. Would a projector be as simple to use?

As far as lighting, this is in a room with 10" of glass doors with no covering on them. It can get kinda bright.

My thought is that for 80% of the viewing, I would not even use my receiver for sound, just relying on the speakers in the set. A projector would not have speakers right?

Not sure in any case, like I said, I am not that familiar with projectors. At a trade show, I will have no control over lighting.

The bulb on a projector would cost you around 50-75¢ per hour to operate. You need it fairly dark and you wouldn't just flip it on to watch Oprah (although I assume you'd be to help with that ). So forget it. Too bad.

I'm getting to the projector point myself. Even though I have no light control in a very bright room I only watch movies at night anyway. That's why I have TVs in other rooms. Or I use the CRT (soon to be LCD), computer speakers, and TV tuner board on the HTPC that drives the RPTV, to watch TV. If you only need an under 21" inch TV picture you could do that for daytime TV, it works great and you could make it pretty easy to use. You could watch movies on that during the day too and easily add HDTV.

Projectors really do work at trade shows, probably because the distance between the projector and screen is fairly small. I was very surprised, I used a projector at Moscone, in their full lighting, and had no problem with brightness. It really beat the CRTs I used to carry around in terms of convenience. And those are not the best conditions for a plasma, in terms of damage, either.

Most projector bulbs these days last from 1500 to 2000 hours before they become too dim to use (with some as low as 1000 and some as high as 6000). Most bulbs cost roughly $300 to replace, with high end bulbs going for up to roughly $500 (500w Xenon bulb for replacement in JVC G10 to G20). It's about a 20-30 cent average cost per hour. On the extreme end, the JVC G20 lasts 1000 hours and costs $500 to replace, giving you a 50 cents/hour operating cost.

I'm on a Proxima DP8000 (3000 lumen, 800:1 contrast, XGA native LCD, <34db noise, DVI w/HDCP, 13lbs) with a rather low lasting 1500 hour SHP bulb that cost about $400 now, though it should drop to $350 or so by the time I need a new bulb. At $400, that's a 27 cents/hour cost, at $350 it's 23 cents/hour. I was kind of lucky in that I bought the projector for under $3k new. It blows away all of the plasma screens I've seen so far, including the 61" ones (I haven't seen the Runco).

Plasma:
Cool factor very high, picture quality not as good as CRT (direct view or RPTV). Main shortcoming of plasma is poor black level detail, so shadows and black areas are not totally dark. As for usability, not totally easy as you need a source device and typically a sound system as well (i.e. to watch TV need a tuner and also an audio system). Will probably never be as good as CRT in terms of total image quality.

Projectors:
If wanting bright and inexpensive, the Panasonic AE100 is a new LCD model optimized for home theater that sets new standards at the price point. It's a 16:9 native unit, 1000 ANSI lumens running at 480p. Perfect for DVD but not true HDTV, only EDTV. About $2000 USD for the projector, and bulb about $300 and lasts 5000 hours. If wanting optimal picture quality will need a CRT projector which is bulky and complicated to set up and keep optimized. If wanting bright (i.e. not completely dark room or using a screen greater than 82") then a CRT projo can be pretty expensive. If wanting bright, easy and high light output then will need XGA or greater resolution D-ILA projo which costs maybe $8000+. DLP projos are interesting middle ground but give many people headaches.

I did some looking at fairly high-end plasma sets this weekend. Luckily they had a satellite HDTV source for the hockey game and some other stuff that came on after it. A couple of the Marantz sets looked very good, especially the $25,000 61" model. A couple of models (Marantz and Sharp) ranging from $8K to $12K looked pretty good too. The ~$5K Sharp was very washed out. on that model.

The picture was fairly sharp, in fact I was surprised that it was sharper than on the large Mits Diamond and Platinum Plus sets they also had running. Actually, I was shocked how bad the RPTVs looked. It is a high-end store and they said they were calibrated, but I disagree. I've seen total jokes of calibration at other high-end stores. I remember looking at a Pioneer Elite at a very good store and it had SVM and fleshtone on, the wrong color temp set, and the sharpness cranked way up. And they were demo'ing movies that way! But I digress.

The lighting was lowered (around 1/3 the normal store intensity) throughout so that accounted for some of the higher apparent contrast (which looked very good) of their better plasma sets. However I didn't get a chance to see anything like a grayscale to see how good the blacks were. One thing I did notice was that the fast motion pans of the hockey game seemed a little too blurry. But when the camera was still the picture was very sharp and clear. Generally, the more expensive the set, the better it looked. As usual I guess. That 61" was impressive!

All in all, I'd say these sets would be very nice for TV viewing, whether regular NTSC or HDTV. But I'm still not convinced for movies, it just doesn't look "real", like a movie screen.

the 61" panel is from NEC- its black levels are not at the level of the highend 50"s yet.

Hey guys! How ya all been! Haven't posted in almost forever.

Anyhow, here's my take on plasmas.

-If I was going to buy a TV, I would buy a plasma. I love the picture quality and the longevity.

-Longevity? Did he just say that? Yes...The minumum half "life" of a plasma currently on the market right now is 20,000 hours. Let's assume we buy a 20,000 hour one. The Department of Commerce just released their annual census and found that the average American household watches a total of 11 hours of TV a week. That's on all TVs total. (Relesed Feb 6, 2002). BTW - Internet use - 14 hours.... Now we have our 20,000 hour plasma and watch our 11 hours of TV a week. 34 years later we reach our half life...the TV is still going, just not a bright and vivid as it once was. Now, there are a plasmas that have a half life of 70,000 hours! WOW!!!

-For average home use, plasmas are great. For trade shows...no! At 11 hours a day, we "only" get 10 years of use. Dang....Oh, and there's the portability issue. Is a 70+ pound monitor and e-box truly portible? Consider just how delicate these things are. The plasma manufactures are currently reports that up to 70% of their plasmas from the plant are recycled due to "messed up" glass and structure. Mount it on the wall at home, you're fine. Move it around a bunch, a risk.

-For a trade show environment, I would recommend an LCD. There are plenty to choose from. They are more durable for travel than a plasma and cheaper.

-The costs of plasmas will always be a factor. At 8K, you have to be sure. At 15K for a 50", you have to be dang sure, and for 25K+ for a 60+", you have to be DAMNED sure. Anyhow, the 42" is doable and a few 32" were just released last month.

I hope this gives some insight. We sell them at my work and I have to keep up to date with all this.

Plus I have to look at these damn tvs all day! (I say that because I want one so bad and it's torture!)

The longevity issue with plasma monitors is not about their total life. That's just fine. The issue is with their propensity for burn in. If you watch only 16:9 material or 4:3 material stretched to fit 16:9 AND don't keep it on 1 station for too long (the static station logo will burn in), you'll be fine. If you don't keep to these rules, you do get unfixable burn in rather quickly. If you're willing to live with the burnt in images, then yes, 20k+ hours is the lifespan. If you're unwilling to live with this rather poor compromise, then plasmas don't have a long life.

This quotation actually made me feel better about my decision to get a plasma in a couple months (after we move into the house we just bought). My plasma will be for 100% DVD viewing. With burn in not being an issue, glad to hear that the overall life is longer then I originally expected (expected about a 10 year life span). Not even going to hook it up to TV tuner (although it is not, unfortunately, a dedicated home theatre room, it is the living room).

Still deciding which one, but leaning toward a 42" Zenith from Costco.com. Woukd get the 50", but the 4K difference in price is prohibitive. Currenty have an old 20" 17 year olf Sharp, for it will be a big difference.

Will be wall-mounting it, and probably have it professionally installed (want the wires hidden, and not a tool guy).

Looking forward to it!

Great post BosePro!

How have you been? Good to see you back.

His post is from 2002 (05-07-02 09:39 PM)!

Wow, this thread is back from the dead.

Guilty as charged. Used the search to find info on plasma versus projectors, and came accross this thread for ressurrection.

Decided to go with Plasma due to lighting concerns.

Great old thread!

Plasma really is a good choice for certain installs, and with poor ambient lighting control, it's an excellent choice. I've picked up 2 plasmas in the meantime too, an Akai from Costco (for the guest room), and a Panasonic (for my bedroom).



There's no way the projector would work in my master bedroom, so it's only used in the theater room.