I have a 96 Mazda Pickup truck. It suppose to have 6"x8" speakers, front and rear (as told by a local car audio rep). I would like to upgrade the original tapedeck and speakers to a CD/MP3 deck (MP3 is preferred, but not mandatory) with decent sounding speakers. A powered sub (1 or 2 ) and amp would likely be added much later....so the new system must be flexible for these additions.

Yesterday, I looked at a moderately end Pioneer CD/MP3 deck for CDN$570...pricey, but sweet. They didn't have any 6"x8" speakers except for some Pioneer....I was told that 6"x8" are odd ball, and therefore are hard to get if I want "quality" speakers. Since I already have a fairly nice speakers at home (Paradigm Reference), I don't think that I would be happy with the mass market brands. I did check the JBL site, but they don't have any 6"x8" speakers.

I expect my budget for a deck and quality speakers to be around CDN$500-$800 (US$300-$500) before taxes and install fees. Not sure if MP3 is worth the extra bucks.

Thanks for any help.

BTW, I am a HT enthusiast, but am new to car audio.

Dave

Infinity makes a Reference Series 6x8. I believe that it retails for $109 a speaker so you might have to expand your budget a little.

For a CD Player, definitely look at Alpine. In my opinion they make the best Head Units for the price. For speakers, since you do have an odd sized speaker, you might want to consider just buying a nice set of 5.25 speakers and installing them. Basically, just take a sheet of MDF Board and cut it to the size of the opening (it will be fastened to the car using the holes the 6x8 speakers used), then cut your hole for the 5.25 speakers and fasten them to the board. Remember that a speaker is only as big as its shorted dimension, so those 6x8 are equilavent to 6" rounds. As for subs, I do not know of any self powered subs on the market that are worth the money. You are better off getting an amp and sub. If you want to go this way, please post and I will give a few suggestions.

Another idea. They make adapters to fit a 5x7 speaker in a 6x8 slot.

Best 5x7 for the money in my book in the Boston Acoutics RX87 at $159 a pair.

Damn I wish I woulda known about the adapters hehe. I have the same truck almost (94 Ford Ranger, Ford builds the Mazdas) and I just cut and stuffed 6x9s in all 4 hehe.

Agreed. I have Boston Acoustics all the way around in my car. Nothing can beat them for the price. A thought though. If you go with the round 5.25 speakers, you could get some with a component tweater. You will pay more, but the sound will be noticably better. Either way, Boston Acoustics is the way to go.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Checked out the Crutchfield site...and they mentioned that the speakers for a 96 Mazda Cab Plus should be 5"x7". Either way, I think that a 5"x7" (w/ or w/o the adapter) is the way to go....the KISS method.

In addition to JBL and Infinity, I will look into the Boston Acoustics RX87.

In addition to Alpine, any recommendations for the head unit?

Dave

Let me just put it this way. I have had trouble with "mainstream" head units. I have heard and used (installed for friends) many different head units you would find including Clarion, Panasonic, Sony, etc. Nothing will beat the quality of an Alpine. My used car came with a $400 Clarion which would over heat after 30min and would not work for the remainder of the trip. I installed my 2 year old Alpine and never had the problem. And I don't care what anyone says, there was a distinct sound difference between the two heads.

Alpine makes auto products only, so they know what they are doing. That is why Lambroghini continues to put Alpines in their cars.

I have a Kenwood Excelon Head unit and it is almost bullet proof, not to mention it has the Mask feature which is nice if you don't want to remove your faceplate all the time, and it is removable if you need to. as for speakers I am running Focal and they are amazing, a little power hungry but the quality of sound is amazing.

I had oneof the first MASK head units on the market and really enjoyed it while it worked. After about two years from the face plate constantly revolving the ribbon cable connecting the face to the chassis became worn out. I had a friend who experienced the same thing on the top of the line Sony ES model as well. For this reason I perfer head units with few moving parts and just a removable faceplate.

David I have a 2001 Ford Ranger which I think should be very similar (if not identical) to your Mazada inside. Most 5x7 speakers will fit in 6x8 openings, and many come with the proper adapters for doing so. As mentioned earlier there are also adapters which allow you to mount a 5 1/4" speaker into the adapter then mount the adapter in the 6x8 opening.

I went with Phoenix Gold 5x7/6x8 in the front of my truck. I liked the fact that these had swivalable tweeters which help with imaging if you do not want to do kick panels. They also had silk dome tweeters which I perfer over titanium in the car environment, especially if you do not have any external EQ. I kept the factory rear speakers strictly for rear fill duty

My truck came with an indash 6 disc changer with RDS, so I decided against an aftermarket unit and just added a high quality line out converter for my amps. As long as your head unit gives a nice 4 V pre-out from the RCAs you should be fine.

If you want some more info on how I did my install (MTX and PPI amp, Kicker Solobaric 12", Phoexnix Gold Power Distribution and Signal Cable) feel free to post here or shoot me an e-mail.

Regards,

Justin

They have replaced the ribbon cable with just contacts and now work much better

Any thoughts on the JVC KD-SH99? It appears to have a following at Sound Domains Forum.

To save on costs, I may only upgrade the fronts speakers and leave the originals in the back. Is this a good idea in a small enclosure like a truck with a small extended cab? Savings would probably allow me to add a separate sub or amp faster.

Dave

The rear speakers are less important than the front speakers. If you leave the factory speakers in the rear, it won't be a problem at all. Just adjust the head unit to fade the sound towards the front.

Once, whilst going through a period with no money, I blew out the factory speakers in my car and only could afford one set (the fronts). Wasn't perfect, but it did sound damn good with my Boston Acoustics in front and Lightning Audio sub in the trunk.

After visiting all the local car audio dealers, I couldn't find any Boston Acoustic speakers....nearest dealers are 9-10 hours away by car. But I did find out what brands these local dealers carry (and some prices):

Head units:

JVC - looking at the SH99 (CDN$525 or US$330) and 707 (no price yet) units.
Pioneer and Pioneer Premier - 740MP is pricey at CDN$570 (US$360)
Sony - N/A
Kenwood - last years 8017MP is priced at CDN$380 (US$240)
Alpine - 7894 (price?...in Vancouver it's CDN$600 or US$380), may also consider last year's model (7871 if available)
Clarion - ???
Nakamichi - N/A
Rockford Fosgate
Eclipse - pricey...starts at CDN$600 (US$380)
Panasonic - N/A
and probably a few others that I don't remember

Speakers:

Alpine - considering Type R 5x7 CDN$250 (US$155)..hope to do an audition tomorrow if it ever stops snowing
Infinity - Reference series had too much distortion, may consider Kappa if it's noticeably better for SQ
Focal - H series is clean, but lacks a bit of punch...dull? IMO. Likely too pricey for my budget. Several models...nicest and pricest speakers I have heard yet.
Mmats - 5x7 CDN$250-$300. No audition yet.
Pioneer - N/A

Subs:

Kicker
Memphis
Rockford Fosgate
Orion
Alpine - Type R is under consideration
Infinity - 10-12" Perfect for CDN$400-$450...too pricey IMO

Amps:

Alpine
Soundstream
JBL - 600.1 for CDN$500
Orion
Rockford Fosgate
Memphis/Kicker?

Currently, I am considering an all Alpine system (HU, speakers now with an amp and a sub later). I am hoping to audition some Alpine stuff tomorrow.

Since SQ is very high on my list, which subs and amps should I consider for Phase 2? I have heard that the Infinity Perfect is one very good sub, but it's too pricey locally. Any comments about other brands?

Looking at my budget for both phases (HU, front speakers, sub and 1/2 channel amp, it appears that it will cost me up to CDN$1600-$2000 (US$1000-$1250). That's way more than what I had originally planned. I am not sure if the new system will be worth it.....should I go with something cheaper...like a Kenwood 8017MP (CDN$380) or an Alpine 7858 (CDN$299) for a HU and stick with CDN$200-$300 for the front speakers.

How important are the 4V preouts? The cheaper units like the 8017 or 7858 are only 2V. How many pairs of preouts should I at least have in order to add a sub and an amp later?

Sorry for so many questions....I am finding that there are many more complexities for car audio than home audio. Way too many choice available IMO.

Thanks in advance.

Dave, a definate car audio newbie

Don't count out the mp3 players. If you burn your own disks they are pretty incredible. I just picked up a new unit by KOSS. It retailed for around 160 US. Sound quality while playing mp3 is very nice. Controls are not bad, it doesn't have expensive graphics or anything but it scrolls the name of each artist/song across the display in mp3 mode, has quite a few useful features. It has a scan mode for mp3 where it plays the first 5 seconds of each song and a 3 digit 'goto' feature where you can go directly to a song. Also typical cd player controls like random/repeat etc.

I have not used the mp3 head units from aiwa or kenwood so I cant compare those but this one does the job nicely.

-K

Nice choice on going with the Alpine system. I have an Alpine 7838 and love it to death. It is unfortunate that you can't get a hold of some Boston Acoustics, but Alpine makes a very good speaker as well; almost as good as Boston Acoustics (in my opinion. Because you are not going with separates, I wouldn't look at any other speakers. For subs, you can either go with Boston Acoutics, Rockford Fosgate (high end), or Lightning Audio (high end). I say high end because both of these companies make products which can be sold at retail stores for cheeper. Get the high end stuff and you won't be disappointed. You only need one set of pre-outs for the sub, and most come with 2 or 3 sets, so you'll be okay. I am not sure as to the advantage of 4V versus 2V pre-outs, but if the higher end units have it, I imagine it must make a difference.

I'll give you some advise right now that will save you a whole bunch of problems. Don't go with the lowend stuff. Spend the money now so you won't have to spend more later when you find out your system sucks. With responce to Kevlar's post, MP3 playability is not important. When you start getting into high end equipment, you will notice the poor sound quality of a MP3 compared to a CDA. This difference will be so great that you won't even play MP3s on your system cause they will sound like utter crap.

My picks

Head Units:
Clarion
Eclipse
Pioneer
Alpine

Speakers:
A/D/S
MB Quart

Amps:
Soundstream
PPI
A/D/S

Subs:
Eclipse
Audiobahn
JL Audio
Kicker
Stryke Audio
Adire Audio

and of course my favorite and the lesser known:

Blueprint Drivers(site is down right now)
http://www.blueprintdrivers.com/

High XMAX, Low FS and Low price

I disagee with this

Admittedly while any MP3 is worse than CD quality I find it acceptable in all but the most crititical areas.

A decent 192-320kbps MP3 doesn't sound like "utter crap" on my modest home theater system while running from the HTPC or in my modest car system and is perfectly acceptable for casual listening.

However, if you are doing critical listening in your car you need to stop and pay attention to the road

You must admit that using a Koss head unit at $160 puts you on the lower end of car audio. I would not expect you to hear a difference out of this player. When you get into higher end equipment, the gap grows. For me, that gap is just too great, and I never burn MP3 disc. And yes, I do critical listening anytime I am listening to music. See, I am one of those rare people who can do two things at once.

Well ya Koss isn't the greatest brand and the THD from the deck couls be greater than that from the MP3 file anyway, but....

I play MP3's on my Paradigm/Denon system at home and it sounds fine for casual listening while entertaining or drinking some beer.

My definition of critical listening is turning off all lights, closing all doors, turning off any fans and the heat/air(which may come on during listening) and basically making my house as silent as possible.

Next I sit in the sweet spot, turn on "tone defeat", close my eyes and I don't listen to the music; absorb the music! How profound, huh?

Now if you are doing that in a car stay away from me In a car with road noise and other factors I think MP3's are more than adequate for the purpose as long as they are artifact free and at least 128kbps.

On the other hand if realistic/uncolored sound is what you want from your car then why use 4 speakers? CD's are recorded in stereo and having 4 or more speakers in a car creates a pseudo surround which isn't intended in the first place.

All this really doesn't matter as it is the individual listener who needs to decide if MP3 is adequate for his car stereo, I know it is for mine and it is an option I would like to have if needed

a couple of other amps to consider are Xtant and J/L

I run all Xtant

Both of these amps are hard to beat sound quality wise.

Today, I was impressed with the Alpine Type R speakers....more liking to my taste than the Focal Series H....more punchier sound (like the Paradigm Reference speakers I have in my HT). Looked at the Type R 5x7 and 5.25 (6.5 not in stock yet) and Type S 5.25. Preferred Type R 5.25 a bit more than the 5x7 (both were noticeably better than the Type S 5.25). I will probably wait to see if the Type R 6.5 with modifications will fit into the door. The Type X weren't hooked up, but at almost twice the price...they are out of my price range.

The Alpine 7894 (CDN$550 package price) is not in stock yet (both the 7893..CDN$500 package price and 7892..CDN$400 package price weren't hooked up yet). Was impressed with the 7874 unit.

Until they arrive, I am currently considering an all-Alpine system for Phase 1...a 7894 head unit and Type R 5.25 or 6.5 front speakers plus the original rears....together for around CDN$800 or so plus taxes and installation and miscellaneous parts.

A sub and an amp will have to wait til Phase 2.

Dave

Excellent choices.

Here's a clarification of my auditions today:

1. Alpine Type R 5.25 Component
2. Alpine Type R 5x7 Coaxial
3. Alpine Type S 5.25 Coaxial

I also auditioned a set of 6x9 Nakamichi and a 5.25 Mmats speakers. They were good, but nothing spectacular....both are priced around CDN$300.

Locally, there aren't many higher end speakers available. Just Focal, Alpine, and Infinity.

Dave