Hey all,

As the prices on these things drop...I was wondering if anyone has any experiences with both of these types of DVD recorders. Which is better? Obviously PC drives are cheaper but are they necessarily better? How's the encoding? Can anyone give us any insight into this? Any links?

Edit: Sorry about that. Reopening thread.
-stevevt

bump

I would recommend the Pioneer DVR-7000 DVD recorder.
It's a stand-alone unit that retails for around $2,000, I picked up mine for $1,600. IT IS, hands down, the very best DVD recorder on the market. Also this unit is PROGESSIVE SCAN. I have transferred DVCAM masters directly to this unit, via FireWire, and the results are flawless. And yes, IT IS completely backwards compatible with playback in existing players: both PC and standard units.

There are several other recorders on the market that cost less than the Pioneer Unit; one is the Panasonic. I was unhappy with its recording quality even at it best bitrate mode. This unit DOES NOT compare to my Pioneer DVR-7000.

I have also been quite unhappy with the current batch of PC recorders on the market. The overall quality is inferior to my stand-alone DVR-7000. Microblocking and digital smearing is extremely visible on these recorders as well as on the cheaper
stand-alone units.

If price is the issue, then wait. You do get what you pay for.
The DVR-7000 will come down in price over time. This Pioneer recorder is simply the best!

Computer models are far superior. After all they are software driven. You can always upgrade software and do whatever you want in the future with your write laser. The only real comparison is write speed. As long as the unit doesn't make coasters (if it does return it for a refund) then the fastest one with the cheapest $$ is the best deal.

-K

I would really have to disagree unless you are using professional grade drives which cost many thousands of dollars. These are the same units that the Hollywood Studios use for the their authoring of feature films and videos to DVD.

I have yet to see a PC based, non professional drive, that compares to my Pioneer DVR-7000, let alone at the same price point. Sorry, but these are the facts. As for PC upgrades, everyone will need new gear when the next generation of DVD recording takes place (HD-DVD): MPEG 4 and above. No one will simply be able to download a program that will make their existing hardware compatible. This idea would be nice but it's extremely Science Fiction in application.

A PC drive is the way to go. When you have a stand alone drive you are locked into the functionality of that drive and it's built in features.

With a PC based drive you can can use different versions of software that will allow you new functionality. You also can store items to be recorded on your hard drive and have easier access for editing and recording.

The biggest advantage is the price, where the PC wins hands down.

If you don't have a decent PC, or need a recorder to function as a player in your HT as well, go with a stand alone. If not, the PC is the far superior choice.

J

You will need to upgrade as well, but in the meantime those buying a PC based solution would have saved about a 1000 bucks or more.

A PC based solution is not for everyone, but if you are slightly PC literate it provides the most functionality.

J

Show me the quality and backwards compatibility, as that's a major issue in this race against superiority. When all is said and done, as an industry professional, overall image quality is what remains at the end of the day. No one really cares what you did
to achieve it.

When I create "General DVD" copies of programs for my clients,
the DVR-7000 is delivers stunning results. (General DVD copies are fully backwards compatible with existing players.) When a program needs to be replicated for mass-distribition I send it out to a local authoring house. There is no need for me to spend the kind of money authoring houses do on their gear.

No doubt that the price is cheaper on a PC based recording system, but storage space is also another issue. When you are transferring 2 hours plus of super hi-res video and audio to DVD,
I have yet to come upon a PC based system with the quality that I have come to expect from my Pioneer recorder.

If overall quality IS NOT a determining issue in your purchase,
then go out and buy a DVD recording drive for your PC. As an industry professional I do not have that luxury.

I would think computer would be the way to go for versatility and the ability to upgrade.

Computer drives are great provided that you are using the professional grade devices that most authoring facilities
employ. Quality is the real issue here, as that's the reason we all love DVD in the first place.

As an HD Filmmaker that produces DV products on a regular basis, the Pioneer DVR-7000 is a great product for producing "General DVD-R's" for playback in all existing players. If mass-replication is what you're after, the DVR-7000 will not be applicable, as an authoring grade master is required for duplication; and those recorders ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE.

If quality is what you're after, and professional-looking DVD-Rs are what you desire, look no further; as the Pioneer DVR-7000
is your solution. All other recorders need not apply.

ok ok highdef...i'm hearing you.

you also seem to be the only person in this forum who is completely against the computer burners. I'm not discounting you...as you've said you hated the quality delivered by the Panasonic. I, too, have seen the results of the Panasonic and am not happy at all. I'm going to have someone put some stuff onto DVD for me from VHS and see what happens. If i don't at least get the VHS quality from it...i'll be staying far away from recorders.

But my main concern is how exactly one gets the information into a PC burner. How large does your hard drive have to be? How is the editing? I'm assuming you'd have to buy a new video card for S-VHS input...no? Can you clean things up on a computer? What can you NOT do on a standalone that you CAN do on a PC?

On a stand alone you cannot

1. Easily upgrade the software used for encoding

2. Digitally enhance/fix elements

3. Change software when new encoding options become available.

4. Easily order what needs to be recorded

5. Insert upgrade cards if new video connectivity standards are established.

6. Upgrade your burner to a faster speed without upgrading the whole rig.


A stand alone locks you into what is in the box when you bought it. I am not sure what highdef is getting at regarding quality. A drive either burns or does not burn. It is the software on your PC which does the MPEG2 encoding. If the software does not do the job you are looking for, just change the suite you use or make sure you read reviews and buy a drive with a suite that suits your needs.

J

That's pretty much the way I look at it. The drive is a drive. It reads and writes bits. The software does the rest.

This is sounding alot like the "Your digital bits look better than my digital bits" argument. We went over this with the optical/coaxial thread. Not sure what you mean by General DVD copies. All I know about that standalone model is if you try to change the bitrate with the built in presets it wont play on any dvd player but itself. As far as general dvd being fully backward compatible I seriously doubt that. Some dvd players support dvd-r/rw, some don't. A drive writes. If your drive writes the same information as mine at a faster speed you have a better drive. Your stand alone unit has NO hard drive or real processor to do any type of video editing with. Also you are limited to the functionality in your set. Anyone with a 400$$ computer drive can use a number of editing/copying tools that are constantly being improved upon. Does that make an 1800$$ stand alone unit with the same write speed a better deal? Hardly...

Obviously there are those of you out there not using DVD for professional purposes. "General DVD" is the only video formatted DVD-R that will play back on existing players. All other types are totally incompatible.

As for the software quality on PC drives, I can only speak of what I've encountered on a consumer level vs. my professional world. The professional drives are fantastic and cost quite bit; hence my reason for contracting an authoring house for pre-mastering for consumer mass-duplication. The DVR-7000 cranks out DVD product that looks as good as the stuff that we by pre-recorded.
(Still this unit is not an authoring device) If you're able to find PC software that does the job for you, "God Speed." Just beware that there's a lot of crappy software out there so do your homework. Quality video compression is everything, so make sure that your device maximizes the MPEG-2 format and does not over enhance its short comings. Even Hollywood studios make mistakes in this arena.

Again, all of my transfers are from digitally originated material;
professional grade DVCAM with FireWire. I have not used the DVR-7000 for analogue transfers. With the use of digital masters all of my results have exceeded my expectations.

Whatever type of recorder that you choose: stand-alone or PC, make sure it provides the features and quality to meet your specific needs.

You guys rock!

Thank you so much for all of your advice.

Honestly, I'd like to go with the PC route as many of you have expressed how happy you've been with them. Plus, money and affordability is a big plus to me.

Does anyone know what the best softwear for encoding is? or which forum I should ask this question in? Quality is most important to me because I'd like to get something better than what I've seen with the Panasonic stand-alone.

Thanks!

The advantage of a set-top box is it uses a hardware based encoder. This allows for real time encoding at better quality, especially at lower bit rates.

The disadvantage is this is almost impossible to upgrade without buying a new machine.

Software encoding on a computer is hit and miss. Different encoders have varying degress of quality, and some take a great deal of time to encode. Hardware encoding is prohibitively expensive, outside of one $500 board for the macintosh which has limited availability.

Of course, next week a new company may introduce a software encoder that is better than any consumer/prosumer product available.

It's still bleeding edge stuff, and I don't think there is any one best answer, but if all you want to do is archive tapes and whatnot and if you don't need menus and editing, a set top box will probably meet your needs best.

Finally, someone out there who's not afraid to promote stand-alone recorders. God speed...

I have been reading all of the posts with great interest. But, I think I might go with the Panasonic dmr-e20. Although, the Pioneer seems to be a better model. I just cannot afford the price tag.
I tape tv shows and keep them on vhs. But, the quality is ok and it takes up a ton of space. From what I am reading dvd-r should be fine for what I am doing. My only concern is that I know as soon as I buy it. A new model will come out and will be cheaper. But, that goes with anything in the computers/electronics world. I would get the computer based burner. But, I am not sure how to hook it up with my dish receiver and it is also on the other side of the house from the connections.

ps- What format do studios use when creating dvd's? They usually are compatable with all dvd players. And if they are. Why are the burners using the same format??

Studios use the "General DVD" format for distribution. (They are authored-grade mastering discs) In many ways they are very similar to consumer DVD-R's, at least the ones that I've been buring with my Pioneer DVR-7000. I have played back my recordings on many brands of players with no problems. Even Toshiba units played back my DVD-R's, this is a feat that most Disney manufactured discs can not even claim.

As long as you don't mind "FULL" backwards compatibility with your DVD-R's recorded with the Panasonic unit, go out and buy it. If you plan to share your recordings, well that's an entirely different story. It will be a crap shoot regarding which players will or will not playback your recordings. The same is also true for a number of PC burners as well.

Good luck.

Thanks Highdef for the answers. I plan on using the discs on my other dvd players, a Sony 500 and a Panasonic portable dvd player. I might lend the discs to friends to watch. But, from what I have been reading most dvd players will be ok with the dvd-r.

ps- Has anyone tried the blank dvd-r's for sale at mediastore? Will they work on the Panasonic?? They are for sale for $2.99 each with a case. Here is the link:
http://www.mediastore.com/cdr/produc...9999995%5F0004

Best of luck. Regarding your blank DVD-R question, I have no idea. I would ask the e-tailer/retailer before you make the purchase.

Those looking for a "cheaper" PC based recorder check this out:

Pioneer has made a delightful announcement. Their newest "next generation" DVD-R drive will sell for a mere $500. That's a hefty drop from the previous model. The DVR-A04 DVD-R drive promises to read and write faster than its predecessor. Compatible with DVD-R, DVD-RW, CD-R, and CD-RW this could just be the machine you've been waiting for. However, this computer-based DVD recordable drive does not adhere to the Recordable DVD Council's DVD-Multi specifications. In a press release Pioneer spokesman Andy Parsons said, "Adding DVD Multi adds cost to the drive." While the universal compatibility issues are far from resolved, things are looking more promising.