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Progressive Scan Question???? Plus more Questions????

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Progressive Scan Question???? Plus more Questions????

Old 02-14-02, 07:06 PM
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Progressive Scan Question???? Plus more Questions????

I purchased a Mits 55" Widescreen about 6 months ago. I was looking to get a progressive scan DVD player. Right now i have a Toshiba 2-Disc player, which is working just fine, i was just curious what kind of difference a progressive scan player would make??? I'm not looking to break the bank either, i've noticed prices seem to drop on these, but some people say these are not "TRUE" progressive scan players.

SECOND question, what kind of set-top convertor box should i buy to recieve the HDTV signal???? I'm trying to debate whether to buy this or a DVD player....since i watch movies often, and HDTV is not that widespread yet.

Third, if i add component video cables, how much of a difference will i notice over my S-Video cable. What component cables should i buy?????

Thanks in advance,
DJ
Old 02-14-02, 07:53 PM
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With a Mits TV you will see a pretty big improvment going to a progressive scan player with component cables.

Can't help you on the HDV receiver.
Old 02-15-02, 10:59 AM
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It is true, "you do get what you pay for." There are many low-priced "progressive scan" dvd players out on the market. Unfortunately you'll have to fork over at least some $750 dollars if you truly want a "real" progressive scan benefit from your HDtv.
My recommendation is the PIONEER Elite DV-37. It MSRP is $1,000
but I picked up mine for around $750. Most of the cheaper progressive scan players should be called "progressive SCAM!"
The differences in picture quality is night and day; especially when played over an HDtv.

As for your HD set top box, how much broadcast television are you watching now...that's the real question? I ask this because these boxes are not cheap and the better ones can be on the expensive side. My suggestion is to spring for a really good progressive scan dvd player and enjoy your movies over the HDtv that you bought. Down the road, when HDtv broadcast increases significantly, the "better" set top boxes will have dropped in price. Then I would suggest the box that's right for your needs.

I hope that this helps?
Old 02-15-02, 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by highdef
Unfortunately you'll have to fork over at least some $750 dollars if you truly want a "real" progressive scan benefit from your HDtv.
Depending on what your definition of "real" is, you can find very good progressive players for as little as $180.


Originally posted by highdef
Most of the cheaper progressive scan players should be called "progressive SCAM!"
The differences in picture quality is night and day; especially when played over an HDtv.
If you're talking about the Pioneer 434 (and later) models, I'd tend to agree with this statement. If you're talking about entry level Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic, and JVC models, I would definitely take issue with that.

This is not to say that the Pioneer Elite model you mention isn't worth the money.

Would you care to elaborate on which models and brands you're referring to, and what their heinous shortcomings are?
Old 02-15-02, 02:46 PM
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You can read a performance shootout here for all it's worth:

Home Theatre Hifi

Pioneer DV-38A

This is the fancier sibling of the DV-37 we reviewed in the last shootout, and its video performance was essentially identical. The deinterlacing performance was poor, even for a flag-reading player, and its chroma bug is fairly bad. There was more ringing on this player than on most of the others we looked at. This gives the image a very sharp crisp look that so many people are after. This works ok on a CRT, but is distracting on a digital display like the Sony 10HT we used.

On the plus side, the DV-38A (like the DV-37) does have motion-adaptive video deinterlacing, which puts it ahead of most of the pack when watching video material. But while good video deinterlacing is a great thing, and much to be desired, it's the film deinterlacing that you pay good money for a progressive player for. And here the Pioneer does not do well. It has worse bad-edit detection than any of the players in the shootout (7 combs on Big Lebowski, for example), and combed in places that no other player did.

The player has an interesting control that allows you to adjust "Pure Progressive" from "fast" to "slow," which actually seems to be adjusting the balance between temporal and spatial interpolation in the video deinterlacing algorithms. We found this fascinating, but largely worthless to the end user.

Frankly, for this much money, Pioneer could do much, much better. As you'll see when you read the write-up for the Pioneer Elite 510 TV, clearly Pioneer has a good quality deinterlacing chipset. We don't understand why they didn't use it for this player.
Oh yeah, here is their quote from their last shootout:

Pioneer DV-37

This player has some very nice features, and a much improved remote compared to earlier models. It also is an improvement on the previous elite models, the DV-09 and DV-05. Unlike them, the DV-37 has no significant chroma delay, and the ringing is improved. That said, we were still disappointed with this player. It has the worst chroma upsampling artifact of any of the players reviewed. We couldnít imagine how someone could watch "Toy Story" on this player and not notice the jagged streaks on almost every red object in the movie. And, we noticed the problem on almost every movie we used in the testing, even when we werenít looking for the problem. The red streaks were that bad.

The de-interlacing performance was not very good either. It's a flag-reading player, and like every other flag-reading player in the showdown, the Pioneer does fine when itís fed perfect material with perfect flags. (As we mentioned, this is one reason you see so many glowing reviews of players by other magazines. They are using terrific DVDs to review them. Most players will get a good report as such. It is really necessary to test them with difficult DVDs to discover the true capabilities of players.) But when the flags are wrong, the DV-37 is not up to the task. The player clearly uses the flags on the disc to make decisions, so it combed on many of the tests with bad or unusual flags. It also dropped to video mode when it didnít need to. Interestingly, the player combed in places that no other player combed, even other players that use the flags, for example the film that plays behind the ďSpecial FeaturesĒ menu in "Galaxy Quest".

The ringing on this player isnít as bad as the DV-09, but itís still too high, well above average for this group. Turning all detail and sharpness settings down on the player made the problem slightly better, but even after every setting was at zero, the player still had worse ringing problems than any other player in the showdown.

While looking at discs with this player, we saw a strange problem with the WHQL credits roll -- it looked like it was blocky and flickering. All the players had minor flicker problems here, but the DV-37 was a whole order of magnitude worse.
Old 02-15-02, 04:17 PM
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I don't have any of these issues with the DV-37 when played back over my Toshiba 50" HDtv. I have noticed extreme differences with lesser priced progressive scan players when connected to my set. As for the $180 price point someone stated,
I still hold to my original point of: "you get what you pay for."
If the cheaper units work well for some, "God Speed."

I would like some feedback on the PIONEER Elite DVR-7000 recorder. I really feel that this unit is SUPERIOR in all ways to the DV-37 & 38A. I have yet to view a progressive scan unit over my HDtv that out performs it within its price point. Any thoughts.

By the way, which other unit in a comparable price point to the PIONEER Elite player and recorder would you recommend?

Last edited by highdef; 02-15-02 at 05:56 PM.

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