Hi, I just got my widescreen HDTV today, and I was all excited because I could finally watch movies in the proper aspect ratio "black bar free." But for some reason, I noticed that the 2.35:1 movies STILL have the "black bars." What's the deal??

I've messed with the TV settings AND the DVD settings.

1.85:1 movies show up PERFECTLY....

Can anyone help?

Yes, I can help.

It's simple geometry. You're talking about two different aspect ratios. 2.35:1 movies are wider than 1.85:1 movies. 1.85:1 is almost the same as the shape of your widescreen TV, which is 1.78:1, so you don't see black bars. 2.35:1 is considerably wider, which means there will be some unused space at the top and bottom of the screen.

I realize the geometrical situation, but what I am wondering is - do they make widescreen TVs that properly display the 2.35 : 1 versions?

There still will be unused space, but a whole lot less on your 16x9 TV than if the movie was viewed on a regular 4x3 TV set.

OK, so there are no 2.35:1 tvs then?

Or very few if there are?

No. And if there were, 1:85 movies would have to be windowboxed w/ bars on both the sides and the top/bottom. You'll become accustomed to the small black bars in a few days or weeks. In time, you probably won't even notice them.

No, there are no 2.35:1 TVs.

If there were, it wouldn't do you any good. There would be no black bars with 2.35:1 movies, but there would be black bars on the sides of the screen when you watched 1.85:1 films. So what would be the benefit?

The 16:9 (1.78:1) aspect ratio was chosen for widescreen TVs because it's a near-perfect mathematical compromise between existing 4:3 (1.33:1) material and 2.35:1 films. If you watch a 1.85:1 ratio film, you get no black bars. If you watch either 1.33:1 or 2.35:1, you will have small black bars, but they are a minor percentage of the screen space.

If you properly calibrate your picture (especially brightness and contrast) with the Video Essentials or AVIA DVDs and watch your movies in a darkened room, you'll never notice the black bars.

Alright, thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate your help. I thought for sure I was going to have to take the TV back if it couldn't display the best aspect ratio effectively.

Once again, thank you very much!

I'll be posting pictures of my current setup when I get home from work

By the way, although I prefer the AVIA Guide to Home Theater DVD for calibration, DVD Talk is selling Video Essentials right now for only $15, free shipping. This is limited to stock on hand and the deal ends at midnight Aug. 3.

Considering that these discs list for $50, it's a great deal.

Also Seagraves, be sure to set your contrast way down on your HDTV. When they are shipped from the manufacturer, they are set at "burn" level with the contrast way up. It doens't say to turn it down in the owner's manual, but make sure you do. Other than that, welcome to the HDTV Club and enjoy...

The thing is that most of the time I hear salesmen talking to their customers about the widescreens and what they told me was that when watching dvds it will fill up the screen so no "black bars". So a lot of people get misinformed and think something is wrong when watching 2:35:1.

Congrats on your new set.

I know this question has been asked to death but why isn't there a standard ratio?

Two different aspect ratios are as dumb as the bastard WB/NLC snapper cases.

Is anyone doing anything about these 2 problems?

There are more than two aspect ratios.

The "problem" is that television in the NTSC format was developed prior to there being any way to exhibit films at home. Once film could be viewed on a tv, the cat was out of the bag so to speak.

This would be akin to going to an art gallery and complaining that all the pictures were different sizes and should be standardized.

The tv merely displays the material.

As Brian Shannon notes there are far more than 2 aspect ratios. Just as still photographers choose a format and aspect ratio appropriate to their purpose and compose their images for the intended AR, so do directors and cinematographers. Flip through any fashion or photography magazine (or annual report) and you will notice a multitude of striking, powerful images presented in a variety of square, horizontal, and vertical compositions.

There is simply no such thing as a best AR, only different, equally valid ones. Were it not for the fact that there are very few theaters in America capable of showing movies filmed in 1:33, I am certain some directors would chose this more square format on occasion. The suggestion to create one standard AR restricts creative freedom and limits artistic expression.

Seagraves, you know you can zoom in on your TV when playing 2.35:1 movies which will get rid of the black bars. The picture quality will be a bit degraded and it will cut off some of the picture but it's a way around it if it's a big deal to you.

Best thing I ever did was make mattes out of black foam-board that attach to the TV to cover the black bars. This has an excellent effect when watching movies in 2.35:1 movies.

don't anamorphic movies fit the screen perfectly on a 16 x 9 if you configure your dvd player to 16 x 9?

Seagraves, don't take this personally, but...

Don't people research what they're buying and how it works? How can people not recognize the aspect ratio difference? And those who do recognize it, why do they think that--miraculously--everything will fit their new widescreen TV correctly? I just don't get it.

I don't mean to come down negatively on anybody. I genuinely don't understand this behavior.

Certainly, asking these types of question out of curiosity (and especially when buying) is something to be encouraged.

Only anamorphic movies in the aspect ratio of 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 have no or not noticable "black bars".

This is incorrect. 1.78:1 is the native AR and 1.78:1 material need not be anamorphically enhanced to utilize all lines of resolution/fill the screen.

Additionally, you are refering to anamorphically enhanced transfers of 1.85:1 movies, not anamorphic movies. Filming anamorphically and anamorphic transfers are not related.

I still prefer the wider ratio on my widescreen TV.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this.

1.78:1 is the native AR of HDTV and maybe even digital TV, but it's not the native AR of the conventional NTSC format, which is what DVDs are.

If a 1.78:1 film is not anamorphically enhanced when transfered for DVD, it will be letterboxed, with bars on the left and right sides of the screen. You'll have to zoom the picture to get it to fill a 16:9 display.