I'm curious if anyone knows why Columbia House seems to exclude TV shows on DVD from certain studios? For example, I can find NONE of the Buena Vista titles I want (Home Improvement, Alias, Golden Girls, etc).

They used to carry Sony titles. I bought The Jeffersons S3 from there a few years ago, and also remember them carrying Bewitched S1 when it was first released. But I can no longer find a listing for any of the Sony Pictures TV shows I searched for (Bewitched S2, S3, Sanford & Son, All in the Family, The Nanny, Gidget the Series, Facts of LIfe, I Dream of Jeannie).

And finally, I don't see listings for 20th Century Fox TV Shows (24, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Bob Newhart Show). It seems that they carry mostly Warner, Universal, and Paramount Shows, with a few indies like Image (Dick Van Dyke Show Seasons) and Shout! Factory (Punky Brewster) sprinkled in.

I don't know that they ever carried the Fox Shows, but for the Sony Shows, does anyone know WHEN they stopped carrying them and WHY? I've read references that a lot of things changed when CH was absorbed by BMG, could this have something to do with it? It just seems odd, given that I don't know of any online retailers that exclude shows from this many major Home Entertainment Studios. It also means that they are missing out on sales off some pretty big name shows, like 24.

I'd welcome any insights from forum members who might have some knowledge of the reasoning for this.

A while back, CH didn't even carry any Fox titles, sets or regular movies. When I stopped working there in 2001, I think I remember they were finally starting to get in some Fox titles, but I haven't had much to do with them until recently. Maybe they're still having some kind of problem with an agreement with Fox. The reasoning I was always told as to why CH wasn't able to carry certain things is that the studios weren't willing to let their titles go for the low prices that CH offers.

I have also heard what The_Infidel said regarding studios not wanting to let their stuff to sell for so little. Specifically, I was told this was the reason for the whole Fun Cash/box sets controversy a while back.

I don't purchase many movies, so I can't really comment on those, But ,as it pertains to TV on DVD box sets, I've not found it to be the case that CH is offering "low prices".

For every TV on DVD box set, in which I'm interested I can find a lower price at either amazon.com or Deep discount dvd.com or in most cases BOTH.

A few cases in point, CH has Monk-S4 for $44. I"ve seen in on sale for as low as $41. Amazon has it currently for $27.99, and DDD has it for $37 both offering FREE shipping on the set.

CH has all but the final Frazier season set listed at $32.21, they are $26-$29 at both amazon and DDD. I could go on with several other examples. And when taking into account that CH charges $6.99 to ship 4 disk sets, compared to free shipping on all sets at DDD, and on purchases over $25 on Amazon. They are not even remotely price competitive with other e-tailers so I don't understand how their selling at "low prices" would be an issue.

Because when factoring in your enrollment selections the average per disc price is much lower than anywhere else. Just ask lizard, he has broken down the cost analysis several times.

You're forgetting to factor in the initial reduced price of the intro package($19.95 or $9.95 for 2 sets).

WRT the studios Columbia House carrries, CH discontinued selling Fox and Disney (Buena Vista, Dimension, Miramax, etc.) DVDs several years ago. For Disney, this may be because they have their own club. For Fox it may be because they have their own internet store.

For reasons unknown, CH does not sell much in the way of Sony TV sets. Even though CH does sell Sony/Columbia/Tristar movie DVDs. Your guess is as good as mine.


We used to be able to get free sets using funcash. About sixteen months ago that policy was changed (retroactively, which really pissed off the people here). Whether the CSR that cleverusername mentioned was blowing smoke by saying that studio complaints were responsible for the change, I don't know.

As for the reason why some studios don't let CH sell their DVDs, I think The_Infidel is exactly right. The studios don't want their crown jewels sold for 49¢ by CH. This is why the studios that DO work with CH require a lag before titles are available for enrollment. This allows the other, more profitable, retail stores to sell titles for high prices before CH uses them as "loss-leaders". By the time CH makes them available for enrollment, most of the sales activity is over with.

As olliebee said, CH regular (or "sale") and "special" prices are higher than most other retailers. Thus CH doesn't provide much direct competition for the regular retailers, who are much more profitable for the studios. Except for the microscopic minority of CH customers, like us, who understand the concept of "relative cost" and view CH membership DVDs as a package.

Some studios, such as WB, are willing to do business with CH and others, such as Fox, are not. We have WB to thank for the very low prices of DVDs in general nowadays. Warner Brothers decided early on to price DVDs for "sell through", unlike the previous VHS and Laser Disc formats. They aggressively pushed down prices and other studios were forced, reluctantly, to follow suit. Those old enough to remember the "rental pricing" of pre-recorded VHS tapes in the first two decades of that format will realize how low DVD prices are, by comparison.

As prices of DVDs fell at regular retailers, prices at Columbia House did also. We Columbia House membership optimizers used to consider an average DVD cost of $9.28 (code 7CY) to be good. Now a good enrollment code averages $5.86 and most of us use B1G1F and/or free shipping offers to get our DVD cost even lower.

[As someone who is adopting the HD DVD format, I am hoping that WB will push down prices for HD DVD in the coming years. And, of course, I hope that CH will begin selling HD DVDs (or, at least, Blu-ray Discs). But that isn't likely until the high def formats have a much greater installed base of players.]

I've read lizard's detailed break downs and am fully versed in the overall cost per disc of fulfilling a membership. However, this still doesn't clarify for me the exclusion of TV on DVD sets by so many studios.

There are only a VERY limited number of TV on DVD sets are offered as new enrollment options, and the vast majority of those are only Season 1 of a series. So if introductory low price is the issue, it would appear this could be easily resolved by not offering TV on DVD titles of the studios that have this concern as part of the introductory package.
Again, given the currently limited new enrollment selections, this is already largely the case many TV shows that CH offers anyway. Of the series that CH does carry, that I am interested in at present (Numb3rs, Frazier, NCIS, Monk), NONE of them are offered as new enrollment selections anyway. So what's to stop an agreement with Buena Vista, Sony, etc that we will sell specifically EXCLUDE your sets as new enrollment options.

Lizard, thanks as always for you VERY insightful and knowledge filled post. You truly are the master professor of all things Columbiahouse!! :-)

This question is about a movie set. Why is it that ch carries paramount and yet I can't get the Indiana Jones box set from there? Does it have something to do with Lucas?

Just to clarify, I heard this from someone several levels above a CSR and in a position to know such things. On a side note, a few years ago I saw a documentary about the CH music club (The Target Shoots First). I seem to recall a brief interview with a band where they were shocked (apalled?) that a company offered a buy 1, get 12 free deal and that their music was available in that offer. I've even felt this way a few times--wow, this classic film only cost me $5.13 (average). Of course, I also wondered why I paid $5.13 (average) for Zardoz.

Interesting.Columbia House pricing is only low for those of us who optimize accounts. I would guess that the average customer buys a number of discs beyond the required committment, including picking up the occasional "Directors's Selection" at very high prices. Such customers think that the standard "50% off when you buy one at full price" is a good deal. The enrollments are promotions intended to entice "members" to join and impluse buy high priced titles (the enrollments aren't even listed in one's account history on-line because they aren't considered "purchases"). As The_Infidel will tell you, CH is aided in this by a very low cost of DVDs, on the order of $3 a title when he worked there, IIRC. Why studios are willing to sell DVDs to CH at that price has long baffled me.

As a business model, Columbia House clearly works since they have been doing it for DECADES, starting with records (the Columbia House Record Club). [For the young among you, "records" are large, black, vinyl (formerly shellack) discs used for audio playback before cassettes and CDs were invented. They were played by dragging a needle in the grooves and the vibrations were amplified into audible sound, originally mechanically, later electronically. The concept was invented by Thomas Edison, who originally used wax cylinders. ]

I was going to start a new thread but thought I would just toss it in here, can someone confirm that CH does not sell Sideways?

Sideways is from Fox, so CH doesn't carry it.

I believe so. Back when Columbia House carried Fox DVDs they never sold any of the Star Wars titles either.

As a business model, Columbia House clearly works since they have been doing it for DECADES, starting with records (the Columbia House Record Club). [For the young among you, "records" are large, black, vinyl (formerly shellack) discs used for audio playback before cassettes and CDs were invented. They were played by dragging a needle in the grooves and the vibrations were amplified into audible sound, originally mechanically, later electronically. The concept was invented by Thomas Edison, who originally used wax cylinders. ][/QUOTE]

I got a big chuckle out of that one. But it truly does bear explaining for the young among us. My kids have never seeen a record! :-)

Over the years here at DVD Talk, I have learned that many active posters are pretty young, often college age. And it makes sense that those who follow the "Bargains" and "Clubs" fora tend to be younger and of limited means, as opposed to just being frugal, as I am.

Although I expect that most teens and early twentysomethings have at least heard of records, if not actually having seen or heard them playing, I figured a wry explanation was in order...

You are definitely correct about the low price only on optimized accounts. I think the issue I heard from the CH employee as well as the band in the documentary, The Target Shoots First, was that DVDs (or CDs) were available for free or $.49 each. Of course, none of it is free, but rather the perception was that these works were being given away. That is how CH markets its clubs. It may be the same principle that forces Best Buy or Target to say "Low Price" in their ads when a DVD is priced too low in the eyes of the studio.

This wouldn't work. I think you might have a common misuderstanding concerning CH's business model. To borrow from lizard's explanation, they look at your membership the same way the legion of account cyclers here do: as a package.

When you buy a set for $44 (+ $6 s/h) to fulfill an HDL account, they don't get $50 for the set, the way typical retailers do, because they first had to give you 2 other sets for only $10 to get you to buy the third. So they got $60 for three sets, and it's not that important which were the enrollments and which was the fulfillment (in fact, several of their enrollment sets list for more than $44).

While their cost on enrollment sets is probably *relatively* less due to a higher volume that they buy of those titles, they can't operate by going to one studio and saying "we get $45 each for your sets" and saying to another "we get $5 each for yours", because those two seemingly separate revenues are actually very connected and interdependent. Does that make sense?

The only way your proposed system could work is if a certain studio or distributor's titles would not count as a fulfillment no matter the price, but that would likely be way too confusing, and why would you buy sets that you could find cheaper at other outlets if you weren't "getting" anything for it?

(I meant to also address this part of your post before, but then forgot after that last ramble, so anyway...)

The limited enrollments are somewhat frustrating, but obviously intentional on CH's part. TV consumers are even more specialized than movie buyers. And remember, they don't want you fulfilling and rejoining- they want you keep your same membership. Their ideal plan is to give you Season 1 of your favorite show for (almost) free, and then have you buy the rest of the seasons once you're a member. If they expanded their enrollment list to go deeper into a show's catalog, people might get the same idea we figured out here a long time ago: that cycling is the way to go.

Movies are different of course, in that they're always trying to attract new members, and flashing recent movies at them is usually the best way to do that.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Viewed that way, it makes much more sense why certain studios would exclude their products. I've long understand the concept of a "package deal" as it pertains to my membership. I never thought about the concept as it applies to CH's total profit from the sale of sets.