Hey, I'm a teacher. Can I combine the "educator's discount" with a personal shopping day? I think my PSD expires in a day or two.

yes

No, you can't.
Typically, we never combine transaction or line item discounts--eg, sale price and coupon, or $X off and x% off a transaction.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

This is what my savings specify:

What makes this better than, say, a 25% off coupon I get on here? I usually don't go crazy on my spending for a day. I'll buy a couple of CDs or a couple of books. So I see how that's good in the sense that it's 10% NOT on just one item. With a 25% off coupon -- which is good on only one item -- I can make duplicated and come back and use them again and again, until they expire.

I figured I'd ask, since with B&N you can use your Member Rewards 10% off and a coupon.

Don't worry about personal shopping days.

They're doing away with them next month when the Borders Rewards program is being made "simpler than ever." They're also doing away with the holiday reward and instead just giving you $5 back every time you hit a $150 threshhold. (Instead of the 5% you got back after hitting $200.)

I guess they figured that since we weren't smart enough to figure out the previous rules of the program that we wouldn't notice they've also reduced the net discount from 5% to 3.3%; and much less if you lose those pesky personal shopping days.

You can use personal shopping days, being a TRANSACTION discount, with any *item* discounts (coupons, sale prices, BxGy, etc).

You would not believe how few people were able to comprehend the card. Whatever you may think, there really were tons and tons of people who absolutely could not grasp personal shopping days or holiday savings. And plenty more irritable about having to wait all year for their money to return.

As far as the reduction, it's still a better savings than, for instance, Best Buy's suddenly unusually similar program (2%) and we can still look it up instead of forcing you to print a piece of paper--and it will appear much faster than the month or so they take.
It's also still completely free, coupons will still be around etc. As far as personal shopping days, they're planning to do something like a "pre-set" PSD, sort of 'savings days' with special discounts for those particular days. No details as yet.
Frankly the reason for the reduction is because of how people used/abused the savings last year. And they were fairly well abused.

Anyway, I expected this response once they told us about these changes...and if you've already earned your holiday savings to the $10 threshhold then, as the email says, they will not only be valid, they will be valid earlier (Apr. 12th, if I recall correctly)

So wait, will we still be able to save up those $5 discounts if we want to, or is it now just going to be a $5 couple on every couple of months (or whatever)?
I really liked NOT thinking about the Rewards amount until the end of the year, when all of a sudden I had a bunch of credit at Borders to spend. $5 credit every once in awhile is not nearly as exciting.
But hey, whatever the deal, it is free - so I'll keep happily shopping at my local Borders.

Oh yes you can (now until April 12). The personal shopping day could be applied along with any valid coupon or sale. It said so on the membership terms before they were changed yesterday. I have use my PSD everytime with another coupon or special store discount.

Could you explain to me how did customers abused the savings last year? Because it seems to me that is very difficult to abuse the rewards that members recieved as part of the agreement of making purchases in the store. The only thing I can think of is that Borders is doing a bait and switch, since they have changed the rewards just a year after launching the programs nationally, but since the membership is free, not too many people will complain. They got all the customers and their profiles they needed, now they can do whatever they want, since members don't pay for the card.

The current is 5% of every $100 back, not $200.

This, along with the lack of decent coupons since the beginning of the year, means I will be shopping less and less at Borders.

Sorry, I did phrase that incorrectly.

I meant:
Sale price and coupon
OR
X% off a transaction and $X off a transaction.

Though I'm thinking back, and the ultra-rare $X off a transaction coupons COULD be combined--so you've got me there.

But still, the discounts could never be combined (except the B3g2 books and the educator savings this weekend, which is new).

You earn $5 in credit every time you spend $150. It becomes available the first week of the next month, and expires at the end of that month.


Which leads into...
Well, as far as literal abuse, I'm certainly not going to tell anyone how to do that :)
(suffice it to say, even employees occasionally tried it, and were fired for it)

Honestly, probably the greatest motivation for this was NOT a bait and switch (seriously, internally we are obsessed with service to our customers--I can't speak for specific stores of course, but as a company we are) but that people got tons of credit which they spent at the end of the year--to get free stuff and not buy anything.
It's a nice thing, but it's not financially sound for a company.
Essentially, it was difficult to balance the cost of providing that credit with the minimal income, and since holiday savings didn't drive people to buy more (just use up their credit) it sort of backfired on us.

It's not intended to screw anyone over or reduce anyone's gain, we're just trying to save our own butts. It's a re-evaluation of the system, not an intended switch after getting everyone signed up.

And really now, it's not like we got everyone signed up then decided to deluge them with spam, or charge money or any such thing--just had to make it more cost effective for us.

Well, the point being the *percentage* was what couldn't be accounted for (insofar as the end of year part of this)--that's why the reduction in percentage. 5% did not balance out with the purchasing. Thus 3.33333333% instead.
I should probably mention that that is my understanding, nothing that has been explicitly stated.

What HAS been stated is that a lot of this is based on customer feedback--I imagine most of it was "why can't I use it all year?" and that's why THAT happened (switch to monthly). I know some people were definitely incapable of grasping the previous system, and I know some people hated having to wait all year.

Regardless, the point of a system like this is to increase *sales*--something like holiday savings, as I was saying before, just causes people to come in and use the credit ONLY, where the intention was for them to use credit toward a LARGER purchase.

I agree that wasn't brilliantly planned; it's the natural result of letting a year's worth of purchases accrue, it's going to be a large sum, not a small amount that someone will see as an amount off of a purchase they were going to make anyway, thus allowing them to spend more. The intent of the card (as with all these cards) is in the interest of customer loyalty (well, except B&Ns--THAT is a constant bait & switch for anyone not buying there constantly; they rely on signing people up for mass discounts on large purchases in the fourth quarter and then never using their card again).

Thus, the card is to make people come back. People weren't coming back much more often, just making the same essential purchases as they would have anyway, then getting their fourth quarter purchases for free.

If they want to increase sales, they should have more competitive prices. Ultimately that is what is going to get people to shop at a store like this, not a Rewards program that really doesn't give much in the way of rewards.

On some level I agree, except we're getting more and more people in our store who are sick of getting treated like crap elsewhere. I know this is a forum for people who will sacrifice most other portions of a store experience for prices (which is fine; I do the same on some level, though I attempt to get the better price at a better store wherever possible) so that's not really relevant here.

But as far as competitive prices, you realize that other stores sell CDs and DVDs cheap because they aren't there to make money on those things. They make almost zero profit on them (and sometimes lose money) and gain their real profit from their other stock (eg TVs, etc at Best Buy).

Without some high ticket items hanging around as a main source of income, a store/company can't afford to have prices that compete with stores who *almost* don't care what they charge.

Hey Fangs,

do you happen to have any inside info as to when Borders is going to officially break off their relationship with Amazon? I have some Borders gift cards that I would like to redeem through Amazon and it would be most helpful to know exactly how much time that I would have to burn through these GCs. Thanks.:)

I have to love the corporate logic at work here... people were "abusing" the system because they were actually collecting the rewards they earned. (Sort of reminds me of Best Buy branding customers who only buy things they have on sale as "demons.")

So let's see how the new system works... you earn a $5 reward after spening $150 that takes effect for the next calendar month; and if it isn't used it's presumably lost. I suspect that they're counting on people to either forget about them or not use them at all.

I suppose it's a difficult balancing act for these companies... to come up schemes such as this in order to collect data on their customers while offering a reward that they're hoping won't be collected.

Personally I haven't found Borders in-store customer service to be any better or worse than Best Buy, etc. In fact there have been times when Borders customer service has been downright horrible.

One thing that really pisses me off about Borders is that they do not update their in-store inventory quickly enough on their website. At least twice I have checked borders.com to confirm that they have something in stock and driven immediately there to get it, and it is not there. The problem is they do not update inventory in real time, only every day or so, which makes the service kind of useless.

Did you not read what I said?
I said I was not going to outline the actual ABUSE.
I assure you said abuse is ABUSE and not a turn of phrase. I'm not going to outline the methodology on a public forum, sorry.

This cynicism is admittedly founded. But it's hardly new--and certainly it's better than the mail-in rebate form of hoping people forget.

This cynicism is not.
What data?
We collect how much and how often people spend (but NOT on what). We get an e-mail address used to send e-mails intended to entice people into the store.
That's it.
Not some ultra-secret information that anyone's going to be thoroughly offended by. If that information offends you to be available, well, probably best not to use online retailers.

Again, I can't speak for specific stores...but speaking as a store trainer who has worked on opening a store (thus collaborating with other trainers from around the country) it is the *intended* focus. You get a store whose trainer's obsession is loss prevention, or cleanliness/order, or whatever, naturally customer service suffers. It's a purely human element which is not easily controlled, unfortunately. Those stores do tend to suffer for that though. Many, many people have told me they come to my store *for* the service they experience.

Is there anyone who DOES update it immediately (no really--is there? I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean there aren't)? To my understanding, that would be prohibitively expensive and difficult to maintain. And of course it couldn't account for theft, or inventory errors, or various other bits and pieces.
And why not call and confirm first? It could be in someone's hand, or it could be on hold for someone. Do you ask anyone to help find it when you get there, either, or just look on the shelf yourself? If you do, well, fair enough. If not then perhaps they might have been able to tell you where it was.

It's pseudo-wide knowledge that it's early 2008. We've not been told anything more specific than that.

Thanks! I wouldn't think that they would sever their tie to Amazon until their new site is up and running. However, I was a little concerned because officials at Borders and Amazon refused to comment as to when this split was going to occur.

As a note on the inventory, I gotot www.bordersstores.com as I have not looked for inventory on www.borders.com, thinking that was the Amazon-sales storefront only.

Along those lines, I have actually found that www.bordersstores.com to be EXTREMELY ACCURATE for what I have been looking for. In fact, one experience I had was looking for "Art of Illusion - 100 Years of Hollywood Special Effects." I had stumbled on one copy during Wherehouse going out of business 4-5 years ago for my sister and brother-in-law, but could not find a second one for me. It was only in the last year or so that I stumbled on it in BordersStores.com inventory, saying it was in the Tai Chi section, of all places. Now I looked and it was not there. I did not ask anyone or such, but search around for it and did not find it. Months later, I was back in the store and under documentaries, THERE IT WAS !! you know I bought it right away! So it was in the same store that had the inventory say it was there. Just for my own curiosity, after I found it, I checked the inventory in the store kisosk and saw it also said it was in stock.

So for me it has been accurate.

P.S. I should have put this in and even long ago too. FangsFirst, thanks for your patience with us and all your contributions to understanding not only this Rewards but also the other contributions about Borders. you have helped alot and it is much appreciated. Thanks.

It's usually pretty darn accurate--shrink and mis-ships or *VERY* fast sales are typically the only thing that can screw it up.
PS: make sure to ask if it isn't where it says--we have access to a somewhat more up to date search engine (it's just less intuitive, if anyone's going to say, 'well why not leave that one for customers?'--but apparently the tech folk are working on integrating and making sense of the two together anyway)

Thank you very much.
Despite what anyone might think, I'm really not a corporate shill in the least, I just actually feel I can stand behind this company (and as I've implied repeatedly, I do only work on a store level) and want to help it and anyone who shops there or who's thinking about it. I'm glad to know there are some people who are getting something out of it!
I've no plans on stopping, and all the company asks of us on this front is not to reveal confidential type information, which is logical (I've known about the BR changes for some months, but per said agreement was not allowed to discuss them previously--so that's my only limit).
(and if anyone reading this DOES have any questions, feel free to ask me)

As I said, I have only that very general time frame, and it IS intended to coincide with our own *online* store going up [whether it will be already up and running as you too would think is anybody's guess, it may be only internally tested first, or perhaps it will be live before the partnership ends--that remains to be seen], but perhaps the refusal to comment and even the general answer we've been given are indicative of it still being worked out to the full extent--so perhaps that's only a rough estimate.

I created this thread for the coupon updates, not discussing the store, so please have the rest of the discussion here:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=496379

I've found the bordersstores.com inventory feature to be extremely accurate, as well. The only problem with that is when new books get scanned in as in the store but then someone neglects to put them on the shelf. But if you ask, it's no problem, they'll bring them out of the stockroom for you. (Well, there was an ongoing problem for a while where titles were showing up as in-store but were actually still on the truck on the highway, but I think they remedied that.)

I suppose the Borders Bucks would be OK as long as there's something I want to buy during their active period. Guess I will have to plan my purchases, deferring some purchases for later so there's always something to buy.

The Holiday Cash Rewards was great in theory but had several problems in its execution. The first year they had it, purchases that were 100% Rewards Cash would ring up sales tax free at Borders but not at Borders Express/Waldens. ("We don't have the right buttons on our cash registers," they would say.) So the BE/Waldens register would remove the purchase price and the sales tax from the Rewards Cash (i.e. taking more money from your Rewards Cash that it should have) and then show that you were due back your sales tax in cash. The honest stores would give it to you. Other stores would ignore it, and still others would ask the customer to pay the difference! I know because I had the experience of hitting several malls in one day right before Christmas that year looking for a particular gift item, and that same weekend there was a 30% coupon, so I basically chipped away at my Holiday Cash one book at a time in every mall I hit, and every store was a different experience. The other problem that first year was that the computers had a huge lag in updating how much Holiday Cash you had left. That same day I knew I started out in the morning with something like $60 in Holiday Cash to spend. I kept a running total in my head, but, every time I made a purchase, the amount they told me I had left was different from what I'd figured. Like, I knew I'd spent $7, $7, $7, and $7, and my remaining amount should've been $32, but they would say at the register, "Oh, you still have $46 left." Pretty soon I was doubting my own math. Eventually I caught on to the lag and (once I got over being annoyed at the inconvenience) was amused to note that it varied from a few hours between updates to, at one point, a whole day. I even wrote to Customer Care to tell them it was happening (even suggested we get our Holiday Cash on a giftcard to eliminate the reliance on system updates) but never got a reply. The second year of Holiday Cash, the Waldenbooks stores finally got their register/sales tax problems figured out, although if you told them you wanted to pay with your Holiday Cash they had to void the transaction and start all over. When asked why they didn't ask upfront if you'd be using Holiday Cash, they replied, "Because 95% of the customers don't know what that is." As for the computer update problem, this year I didn't have quite the same experience of making so many multiple purchases in the same day, but the system seemed to be updating OK between purchases for me, so I assume they fixed it. But, any way you slice it, the Holiday Cash problems can go away now that the Holiday Cash is going away. I'm sure we'll find a whole new set of problems with the Borders Bucks! :) :) :)

Quite right you are.
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