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Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Old 07-07-10, 05:46 PM
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Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

OK, I'm not exactly stupid & I can understand how math works as well. For example, Spider-Man published for 441 issues, then had a reboot with a new #1 for 58 issues, then went back to the original numbering at #500. Same with Wonder Woman, 320+ issues, then 230+ issues, then 43 or so issues before resuming at #600.

But there are some that don't make much sense at all:

1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?

2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.

3. Apparently Marvel is soliciting a title called Franken-castle at #20. Where did this come from? I don't remember a Franken-Castle #1.

4. Deadpool Team-up #892? (and how many Deadpool titles are currently being published anyway?)

5. Thor ran til about issue #521, then 85 issues, then the 12 issue Coipel run, but somehow rebooted back to #600.

What really gets me is that back when Quesada was the new CEO he said he was frustrated with the numbering system as well & vowed to fix them. He had a good solution for a while with his dual-numbering system but that didn't last long. Now its more confusing than ever!
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Old 07-07-10, 07:37 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Both companies have screwed around with the numbering system to the point they have lost track and misnumbered some stuff. The only one I can explain of the above titles is Deadpool, which is actually going backwards in numbering. It started with issue 900 and they have gone backwards since. Still, Marvel will be releasing Deadpool #1000 a couple of months from now. They are really driving the popularity of this character to the ground with the excess of titles and turning good humor into ridiculous one.
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Old 07-08-10, 12:50 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by sinned View Post
OK, I'm not exactly stupid & I can understand how math works as well. For example, Spider-Man published for 441 issues, then had a reboot with a new #1 for 58 issues, then went back to the original numbering at #500. Same with Wonder Woman, 320+ issues, then 230+ issues, then 43 or so issues before resuming at #600.

But there are some that don't make much sense at all:

1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
Back in the 50s, Marvel (aka Atlas) began publishing Tales to Astonish. In the 60s, The Hulk started appearing as one of the two features in the book (splitting it first with Ant-Man/Giant-Man, and then with Namor). That book ended with issue 101 when Marvel decided to expand by turning each of their split-feature books into two full-length books, and Hulk picked up the numbering with 102. That lasted until issue 474, as you note.

Then there was a new run, starting with issue 1 -- initially with John Byrne, and eventually with a lengthy run by Bruce Jones. As you note, that lasted to issue 112 when it became The Incredible Hercules.

At that point, they started the Red Hulk series (called simply "Hulk.") After 12 issues of that, they released Incredible Hulk 600:

474+112+12=598, which is close enough to 599 for Marvel, I guess -- there was a -1 issue in the 90s that they are also counting, but they are not counting Hulk's original 6-issue series from 1962. Go figure.

To make things more confusing, after Incredible Hulk 600, they are continuing the Hulk numbering with issue 13 and the Incredible Hulk numbering with 601. So the first 12 Red Hulk issues count toward the total for both Hulk books.

2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.
When Byrne took over the Superman books in 1986, they gave him a new number 1. But they wanted to preserve the original Superman book, so they renamed that as Adventures of Superman. When they eventually wanted to cancel one of the Superman books, they kept the Superman title, but the Adventures of Superman numbering. So there has been a continuous sequence of numbering from 1 to 700, but from 424 to 649, the book was titled "Adventures of Superman."

3. Apparently Marvel is soliciting a title called Franken-castle at #20. Where did this come from? I don't remember a Franken-Castle #1.
It's the latest Punisher series. They renamed it starting with issue #17.

4. Deadpool Team-up #892? (and how many Deadpool titles are currently being published anyway?)
There is Deadpool, Deadpool: Merc with a Mouth, and Deadpool Team-up. Deadpool Team-up started with issue 899 (there had been a Deadpool 900 a few months prior, even though Deadpool was actually only up to issue 16 -- just another instance of that wacky Deadpool humor!). Deadpool Team-up has been counting down since.

5. Thor ran til about issue #521, then 85 issues, then the 12 issue Coipel run, but somehow rebooted back to #600.
Thor picked up the Journey into Mystery numbering and ran to issue 502. The following month, Journey into Mystery 503 was released, but it had nothing to do with Thor. That book did run to issue 521, but it was all non-Thor stuff.

Then you had the Dan Jurgens run, which started with a new Thor #1 and ran for 85 issues (Jurgens didn't do the last few).

Then the JMS/Copiel run, which ran from issues 1 through 12 then jumped to 600:

502+85+12=599. It's kind of screwy that they are counting all the Journey into Mystery numbering from the 50s and 60s (Thor didn't debut until Journey into Mystery 83), but not the 90s Journey into Mystery numbering, but that's Marvel for you.

What really gets me is that back when Quesada was the new CEO he said he was frustrated with the numbering system as well & vowed to fix them. He had a good solution for a while with his dual-numbering system but that didn't last long. Now its more confusing than ever!
Forget it, sinned. It's Comicstown.
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Old 07-08-10, 12:51 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by sinned View Post
OK, I'm not exactly stupid & I can understand how math works as well. For example, Spider-Man published for 441 issues, then had a reboot with a new #1 for 58 issues, then went back to the original numbering at #500. Same with Wonder Woman, 320+ issues, then 230+ issues, then 43 or so issues before resuming at #600.

But there are some that don't make much sense at all:

1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
It use to be hot to have a new issue 1. During the 90s, Marvel would cancel long running titles just to bring out a new issue 1. "YOU can now OWN a brand new copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1!!!" DC would be guilty of this too but Marvel actually had a mandate that saw ALL their titles cancelled with new #1's being released soon after. After Quesada came to power, he slowly started bringing their titles back to their "Legacy" numbering.

Marvel kinda screwed the pooch on getting Hulk to 600. They DIDN'T count the original Incredible Hulk #1 to 6 from the 60s. The "Official numbering starts with Tales to Astonish which Hulk was a feature in starting with #60 then took over the numbering with #102.

Tales to Astonish/Incredible Hulk Vol. 1 #1 to 474
Incredible Hulk Vol. 2 #1 to 113 (#475 to 587) (becomes Incredible Hercules)
Incredible Hulk Flash Back #-1 (#588)
Hulk (Loeb) #1 to 12 (#589 to 600)


Originally Posted by sinned View Post
2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.
After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, John Byrne took over the Superman titles. DC renamed Superman (Vol. 1) to The Adventures of Superman starting with #424 and restarted the Superman title (Vol. 2). After Infinite Crisis, DC cancelled Superman Vol.2 and gave The Adventures of Superman it's original name back (Superman Vol. 1). They did not incorporate Vol. 2's numbering.

Superman Vol. 1 #1 to 423
The Adventures of Superman #424 to 649
Superman Vol. 1 #650 onward (700 recently)


Adventure Comics is a little wackier. It's one of DC's oldest titles starting it's run in 1935. It started out as New Comics before becoming New Adventure Comics with #12. It settled on simply Adventure Comics with #32. It was cancelled with #490 (1982) and then revived as a digest-sized reprint book from #491 to 503 before being cancelled again in 1983.

Adventure Comics Vol. 2 was released last year (after Final Crisis). If you look at the numbering on the issue, DC took it's original run into account by watermarking #504 OVER #1. It goes back to Vol. 1 numbering either this month or next month.


Originally Posted by sinned View Post
3. Apparently Marvel is soliciting a title called Franken-castle at #20. Where did this come from? I don't remember a Franken-Castle #1.
Franken-Castle is the current storyline running through The Punisher as a result of being killed by Wolverine's son. Once the character goes back to being The Punisher, the title will probably as well.

Marvel is getting into a REALLY bad habit of re-titling their comics. Wolverine has had like 30 #1's in the past 15 years and a new one is coming out in September! The current Wolverine became Dark Wolverine. Incredible Hulk becomes Incredible HULKS in September too. There's also a new X-Men #1 this week.

I think they do it on purpose to piss off the neurotic fanboys.


Originally Posted by sinned View Post
4. Deadpool Team-up #892? (and how many Deadpool titles are currently being published anyway?)
dx23 answered this one pretty well.


Originally Posted by sinned View Post
5. Thor ran til about issue #521, then 85 issues, then the 12 issue Coipel run, but somehow rebooted back to #600.
That pretty much sums up Thor's numbering. Marvel consolidated Thor's Volumes (1, 2 and 3) back to Vol. 1 numbering.


EDIT: God Damn it, Jason! You beat me to it!!! I spent 40 minutes typing this up with research only to get beaten to the punch! I hate you!

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Old 07-08-10, 12:59 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by The Valeyard View Post
EDIT: God Damn it, Jason! You beat me to it!!! I spent 40 minutes typing this up with research only to get beaten to the punch!
[Nelson]Ha ha![/Nelson]

I hate you!


I didn't need to do as much research because I have a lot of that in my head because I am a sad, sad man who knows way too much about comic books for a grown man who doesn't actually work in the industry.
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Old 07-08-10, 02:42 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
[Nelson]Ha ha![/Nelson]




I didn't need to do as much research because I have a lot of that in my head because I am a sad, sad man who knows way too much about comic books for a grown man who doesn't actually work in the industry.

I don't hate you that much. Just hate that you were one minute ahead of me. I had most of that in my head too but was unsure of specific issue numbers. I too am a very sad, sad man with a lot of useless knowledge.

Last edited by The Valeyard; 07-08-10 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 07-08-10, 08:33 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

This is one of the reasons why I pretty much quit monthlies.
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Old 07-08-10, 09:15 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Wow, thanks for the explanations! I guess the DC Superman title renumbering does make sense (I confused the Adventure Comics title with Adventures of Superman). Still, it seems that you need a PHD in comics to understand and know all this stuff (the other option being posting on a message board and hope your fellow comic nerds know the answers).

I did hear that Wolverine starts with #1 again in a couple of months. So I guess with the 4 issue mini, then the first run (about 189 issues), then the 2nd run (90 issues?).... we'll be looking at Wolverine #300 in a little over a year? Unless they don't count the Dark Wolverine title.... aaarghh!

Incredible HULKS? Really? How many Hulks do we have nowadays. Last I heard was the regular green Hulk and the Red Hulk.
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Old 07-08-10, 10:40 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Oh, and Ultimate Hulk is looking black these days. Not green or red or grey or blue or purple.....black, and he looks like a rapper. Jebus help us all.
Seriously???

The thing I hate most about Marvel was their decision to scrap the Ultimate line under the guise of a reboot. I'm convinced they created the Ultimatum storyline just so they can reboot all the titles to a #1 issue with a higher price point ($3.99) and with lesser known creators (David la Fuente?)... all the while thinking that the consumers won't notice the difference since they had a bright shiny #1 issue in their hands.

Another Peeve: renaming a title such as Ultimates to Ultimates 2 just for the sake of having a #1 issue. Heard that X-men Forever will also reboot to X-Men Forever 2 #1.
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Old 07-08-10, 12:21 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
This is one of the reasons why I pretty much quit monthlies.
I've been trying but I seem to get more and more every month.


Originally Posted by sinned
Incredible HULKS? Really? How many Hulks do we have nowadays. Last I heard was the regular green Hulk and the Red Hulk.
Green Hulk (Bruce Banner)
Red Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Green She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters - Bruce's cousin)
Red She-Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Younger Green She-Hulk (Lyra - Hulk's daughter from an alternate future)
Skaar, Son of Hulk (Hulk's son from Planet Hulk/World War Hulk storyline)
Hiro-Kala (Hulk's other son also from Planet Hulk/World War Hulk)
A-Bomb (Rick Jones Hulked up)

The current storyline has been going on for awhile. Started with Planet Hulk. Moved into World War Hulk. Ran in the background of Loeb's Red Hulk series and Pak's Son of Hulk series before ramping up with Fall of the Hulks & World War Hulks (and Hulked-Out Heroes). The storyline will finally be over in August in time for Incredible Hulks to begin.

Seriously, as stupid as the stories sound, Greg Pak is an awesome writer. He's done stuff with the Hulk's character and personality that I've never seen done before. And now with Banner as well. It's too bad that he has to be teamed up with Loeb's extreme/over-the-top writing for this storyline. Overall, it's been a fun ride tho.

And Ultimatum was a slap in the face to everyone who ever enjoyed the Ultimate universe.
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Old 07-08-10, 01:49 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

I'm gonna start this with "Back in my day..."

I started collecting in November of 1974 - at that time, here were the numbering schemes for some books (all with Feb 1975 cover dates (remember those being three months ahead of actual time)):

Avengers #132
Fantastic Four #155
X-Men #92 (reprint book at that point)
Thor #232
Hulk #184
Spider-Man #142
Captain America #182

Those are from memory and with those I could tell you when a book 2, 3, even 10 years later came out. Now, forget it.
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Old 07-08-10, 03:52 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Oh, and Ultimate Hulk is looking black these days. Not green or red or grey or blue or purple.....black, and he looks like a rapper. Jebus help us all.
While this is true, thats not the Bruce Banner Hulk. Thats actually the "Original Hulk" in the Ultimate universe. Bruce Banner worked with him for a bit. Theres also the "Nerd Hulk" there as well who I'm pretty sure is just a clone, he doesn't have any alternate identity, just as Nerd Hulk.
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Old 07-08-10, 05:01 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by The Valeyard View Post
Red Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Wait, I stopped following it. Loeb finally decided to reveal who it was, about 1 1/2-2 years after he said he was going to?

I am slightly curious again...not enough to buy that horribly written book though.
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Old 07-08-10, 07:39 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by Bob_Bobbson View Post
Wait, I stopped following it. Loeb finally decided to reveal who it was, about 1 1/2-2 years after he said he was going to?

I am slightly curious again...not enough to buy that horribly written book though.
Big Spoilers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hulk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_She-Hulk
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Old 07-08-10, 07:47 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

I could have sworn that I saw an ad for Wolverine #1 at Newsarama.
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Old 07-08-10, 08:36 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I could have sworn that I saw an ad for Wolverine #1 at Newsarama.
Yeah it's in the September soliciations:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marv...citations.html
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Old 07-08-10, 08:52 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Well, I sort of predicted Rulk's identity...

Red She Hulk though? Loeb...

Last edited by Bob_Bobbson; 07-08-10 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 07-08-10, 09:12 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I could have sworn that I saw an ad for Wolverine #1 at Newsarama.
And today Marvel released another X-Men #1.
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Old 07-09-10, 12:13 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by dx23 View Post
And today Marvel released another X-Men #1.
Marvel is calling it a "historic" release.


I'm hoping DC returns The Flash and Green Lantern to their Legacy numbers one day. The Flash moreso because it's run would extend back to the Golden Age.

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Old 07-14-10, 10:17 AM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

FYI - Looks like Iron Man is going back to it's original numbering (#500) in January (per the Bleeding Cool website).
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Old 07-14-10, 05:46 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Iron Man is another title that's confusing..... went from Iron Man to Invincible Iron Man to Iron Man Director of S.H.I.E.L.D (and I'm not sure if this title is still ongoing). Then at the same time a new Invincible Iron Man series started.

Valeyard - why are you counting down to leaving Singapore? man, I wish I had the chance to go back there. Last time I was there was 15 years ago & I checked out all the comic book stores in the island. Are there any good ones still left?
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Old 07-14-10, 09:08 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

I've been out here for work for a little over 10 months. Singapore really doesn't agree with me. I don't do well with hot and it's hot ALL THE TIME out here. Humidity doesn't help either. Also, I'm just itching to get back home after being away for so long. Gotta catch up on family time.

And more importantly - I have nearly a year's worth of comics to catch up on! This may be the moment that makes me switch over to trades.

There are only three comic stores left out here - Comics World, G & B Comics and Absolute Comics. Two others actually closed while I was out here leaving these last three. Each one has their strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 08-18-10, 01:27 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Ultimate Spider-man goes back to its original numbering (#150) with the latest solicits. Its gonna be weird seeing Ultimate Spider-man #150 and Ultimate X-men # 12 (or whatever number it currently is) together.
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Old 08-18-10, 10:22 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

It's especially weird since #150 is actually the 149th issue of the comic. Or 152nd if you count the 1/2 and two issue mini.

They did the same thing with Hulk.
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Old 08-24-10, 02:27 PM
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System

Originally Posted by sinned View Post
Ultimate Spider-man goes back to its original numbering (#150) with the latest solicits. Its gonna be weird seeing Ultimate Spider-man #150 and Ultimate X-men # 12 (or whatever number it currently is) together.
Ultimate X-Men? Pretty sure there isn't an Ultimate X-men book running right now. Theres Ultimate X but it's only 3 issues in I think.
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