Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
#1
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Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
OK, I'm not exactly stupid & I can understand how math works as well. For example, Spider-Man published for 441 issues, then had a reboot with a new #1 for 58 issues, then went back to the original numbering at #500. Same with Wonder Woman, 320+ issues, then 230+ issues, then 43 or so issues before resuming at #600.
But there are some that don't make much sense at all:
1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.
3. Apparently Marvel is soliciting a title called Franken-castle at #20. Where did this come from? I don't remember a Franken-Castle #1.
4. Deadpool Team-up #892? (and how many Deadpool titles are currently being published anyway?)
5. Thor ran til about issue #521, then 85 issues, then the 12 issue Coipel run, but somehow rebooted back to #600.
What really gets me is that back when Quesada was the new CEO he said he was frustrated with the numbering system as well & vowed to fix them. He had a good solution for a while with his dual-numbering system but that didn't last long. Now its more confusing than ever!
But there are some that don't make much sense at all:
1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.
3. Apparently Marvel is soliciting a title called Franken-castle at #20. Where did this come from? I don't remember a Franken-Castle #1.
4. Deadpool Team-up #892? (and how many Deadpool titles are currently being published anyway?)
5. Thor ran til about issue #521, then 85 issues, then the 12 issue Coipel run, but somehow rebooted back to #600.
What really gets me is that back when Quesada was the new CEO he said he was frustrated with the numbering system as well & vowed to fix them. He had a good solution for a while with his dual-numbering system but that didn't last long. Now its more confusing than ever!
#2
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Both companies have screwed around with the numbering system to the point they have lost track and misnumbered some stuff. The only one I can explain of the above titles is Deadpool, which is actually going backwards in numbering. It started with issue 900 and they have gone backwards since. Still, Marvel will be releasing Deadpool #1000 a couple of months from now. They are really driving the popularity of this character to the ground with the excess of titles and turning good humor into ridiculous one.
#3
Suspended
Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
OK, I'm not exactly stupid & I can understand how math works as well. For example, Spider-Man published for 441 issues, then had a reboot with a new #1 for 58 issues, then went back to the original numbering at #500. Same with Wonder Woman, 320+ issues, then 230+ issues, then 43 or so issues before resuming at #600.
But there are some that don't make much sense at all:
1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
But there are some that don't make much sense at all:
1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
Then there was a new run, starting with issue 1 -- initially with John Byrne, and eventually with a lengthy run by Bruce Jones. As you note, that lasted to issue 112 when it became The Incredible Hercules.
At that point, they started the Red Hulk series (called simply "Hulk.") After 12 issues of that, they released Incredible Hulk 600:
474+112+12=598, which is close enough to 599 for Marvel, I guess -- there was a -1 issue in the 90s that they are also counting, but they are not counting Hulk's original 6-issue series from 1962. Go figure.
To make things more confusing, after Incredible Hulk 600, they are continuing the Hulk numbering with issue 13 and the Incredible Hulk numbering with 601. So the first 12 Red Hulk issues count toward the total for both Hulk books.
2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.
3. Apparently Marvel is soliciting a title called Franken-castle at #20. Where did this come from? I don't remember a Franken-Castle #1.
4. Deadpool Team-up #892? (and how many Deadpool titles are currently being published anyway?)
5. Thor ran til about issue #521, then 85 issues, then the 12 issue Coipel run, but somehow rebooted back to #600.
Then you had the Dan Jurgens run, which started with a new Thor #1 and ran for 85 issues (Jurgens didn't do the last few).
Then the JMS/Copiel run, which ran from issues 1 through 12 then jumped to 600:
502+85+12=599. It's kind of screwy that they are counting all the Journey into Mystery numbering from the 50s and 60s (Thor didn't debut until Journey into Mystery 83), but not the 90s Journey into Mystery numbering, but that's Marvel for you.
What really gets me is that back when Quesada was the new CEO he said he was frustrated with the numbering system as well & vowed to fix them. He had a good solution for a while with his dual-numbering system but that didn't last long. Now its more confusing than ever!
#4
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
OK, I'm not exactly stupid & I can understand how math works as well. For example, Spider-Man published for 441 issues, then had a reboot with a new #1 for 58 issues, then went back to the original numbering at #500. Same with Wonder Woman, 320+ issues, then 230+ issues, then 43 or so issues before resuming at #600.
But there are some that don't make much sense at all:
1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
But there are some that don't make much sense at all:
1. Incredible Hulk ran until about issue 474, then had 112 issues (starting with 113 became Incredible Hercules), yet suddenly jumped to issue #600. Where did the other issues come from? And what happened to the Red Hulk title?
Marvel kinda screwed the pooch on getting Hulk to 600. They DIDN'T count the original Incredible Hulk #1 to 6 from the 60s. The "Official numbering starts with Tales to Astonish which Hulk was a feature in starting with #60 then took over the numbering with #102.
Tales to Astonish/Incredible Hulk Vol. 1 #1 to 474
Incredible Hulk Vol. 2 #1 to 113 (#475 to 587) (becomes Incredible Hercules)
Incredible Hulk Flash Back #-1 (#588)
Hulk (Loeb) #1 to 12 (#589 to 600)
2. Superman went from the low 200's to suddenly jumping to 650. I assume this was because they counted or started from the Adventure Comics title. But after Adventure Comics went back to #1, now it is back to 500-something (original numbering). That numbering doesn't tie into anything with the Superman title.
Superman Vol. 1 #1 to 423
The Adventures of Superman #424 to 649
Superman Vol. 1 #650 onward (700 recently)
Adventure Comics is a little wackier. It's one of DC's oldest titles starting it's run in 1935. It started out as New Comics before becoming New Adventure Comics with #12. It settled on simply Adventure Comics with #32. It was cancelled with #490 (1982) and then revived as a digest-sized reprint book from #491 to 503 before being cancelled again in 1983.
Adventure Comics Vol. 2 was released last year (after Final Crisis). If you look at the numbering on the issue, DC took it's original run into account by watermarking #504 OVER #1. It goes back to Vol. 1 numbering either this month or next month.
Marvel is getting into a REALLY bad habit of re-titling their comics. Wolverine has had like 30 #1's in the past 15 years and a new one is coming out in September! The current Wolverine became Dark Wolverine. Incredible Hulk becomes Incredible HULKS in September too. There's also a new X-Men #1 this week.
I think they do it on purpose to piss off the neurotic fanboys.
EDIT: God Damn it, Jason! You beat me to it!!! I spent 40 minutes typing this up with research only to get beaten to the punch! I hate you!
Last edited by The Valeyard; 07-07-10 at 11:55 PM.
#5
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
I hate you!
I didn't need to do as much research because I have a lot of that in my head because I am a sad, sad man who knows way too much about comic books for a grown man who doesn't actually work in the industry.
#6
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
I don't hate you that much. Just hate that you were one minute ahead of me. I had most of that in my head too but was unsure of specific issue numbers. I too am a very sad, sad man with a lot of useless knowledge.
Last edited by The Valeyard; 07-08-10 at 01:49 AM.
#8
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Wow, thanks for the explanations! I guess the DC Superman title renumbering does make sense (I confused the Adventure Comics title with Adventures of Superman). Still, it seems that you need a PHD in comics to understand and know all this stuff (the other option being posting on a message board and hope your fellow comic nerds know the answers).
I did hear that Wolverine starts with #1 again in a couple of months. So I guess with the 4 issue mini, then the first run (about 189 issues), then the 2nd run (90 issues?).... we'll be looking at Wolverine #300 in a little over a year? Unless they don't count the Dark Wolverine title.... aaarghh!
Incredible HULKS? Really? How many Hulks do we have nowadays. Last I heard was the regular green Hulk and the Red Hulk.
I did hear that Wolverine starts with #1 again in a couple of months. So I guess with the 4 issue mini, then the first run (about 189 issues), then the 2nd run (90 issues?).... we'll be looking at Wolverine #300 in a little over a year? Unless they don't count the Dark Wolverine title.... aaarghh!
Incredible HULKS? Really? How many Hulks do we have nowadays. Last I heard was the regular green Hulk and the Red Hulk.
#9
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
The thing I hate most about Marvel was their decision to scrap the Ultimate line under the guise of a reboot. I'm convinced they created the Ultimatum storyline just so they can reboot all the titles to a #1 issue with a higher price point ($3.99) and with lesser known creators (David la Fuente?)... all the while thinking that the consumers won't notice the difference since they had a bright shiny #1 issue in their hands.
Another Peeve: renaming a title such as Ultimates to Ultimates 2 just for the sake of having a #1 issue. Heard that X-men Forever will also reboot to X-Men Forever 2 #1.
#10
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
I've been trying but I seem to get more and more every month.
Green Hulk (Bruce Banner)
Red Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Green She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters - Bruce's cousin)
Red She-Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Younger Green She-Hulk (Lyra - Hulk's daughter from an alternate future)
Skaar, Son of Hulk (Hulk's son from Planet Hulk/World War Hulk storyline)
Hiro-Kala (Hulk's other son also from Planet Hulk/World War Hulk)
A-Bomb (Rick Jones Hulked up)
The current storyline has been going on for awhile. Started with Planet Hulk. Moved into World War Hulk. Ran in the background of Loeb's Red Hulk series and Pak's Son of Hulk series before ramping up with Fall of the Hulks & World War Hulks (and Hulked-Out Heroes). The storyline will finally be over in August in time for Incredible Hulks to begin.
Seriously, as stupid as the stories sound, Greg Pak is an awesome writer. He's done stuff with the Hulk's character and personality that I've never seen done before. And now with Banner as well. It's too bad that he has to be teamed up with Loeb's extreme/over-the-top writing for this storyline. Overall, it's been a fun ride tho.
And Ultimatum was a slap in the face to everyone who ever enjoyed the Ultimate universe.
Originally Posted by sinned
Incredible HULKS? Really? How many Hulks do we have nowadays. Last I heard was the regular green Hulk and the Red Hulk.
Red Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Green She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters - Bruce's cousin)
Red She-Hulk (Don't want to spoil if you don't know)
Younger Green She-Hulk (Lyra - Hulk's daughter from an alternate future)
Skaar, Son of Hulk (Hulk's son from Planet Hulk/World War Hulk storyline)
Hiro-Kala (Hulk's other son also from Planet Hulk/World War Hulk)
A-Bomb (Rick Jones Hulked up)
The current storyline has been going on for awhile. Started with Planet Hulk. Moved into World War Hulk. Ran in the background of Loeb's Red Hulk series and Pak's Son of Hulk series before ramping up with Fall of the Hulks & World War Hulks (and Hulked-Out Heroes). The storyline will finally be over in August in time for Incredible Hulks to begin.
Seriously, as stupid as the stories sound, Greg Pak is an awesome writer. He's done stuff with the Hulk's character and personality that I've never seen done before. And now with Banner as well. It's too bad that he has to be teamed up with Loeb's extreme/over-the-top writing for this storyline. Overall, it's been a fun ride tho.
And Ultimatum was a slap in the face to everyone who ever enjoyed the Ultimate universe.
#11
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
I'm gonna start this with "Back in my day..."
I started collecting in November of 1974 - at that time, here were the numbering schemes for some books (all with Feb 1975 cover dates (remember those being three months ahead of actual time)):
Avengers #132
Fantastic Four #155
X-Men #92 (reprint book at that point)
Thor #232
Hulk #184
Spider-Man #142
Captain America #182
Those are from memory and with those I could tell you when a book 2, 3, even 10 years later came out. Now, forget it.
I started collecting in November of 1974 - at that time, here were the numbering schemes for some books (all with Feb 1975 cover dates (remember those being three months ahead of actual time)):
Avengers #132
Fantastic Four #155
X-Men #92 (reprint book at that point)
Thor #232
Hulk #184
Spider-Man #142
Captain America #182
Those are from memory and with those I could tell you when a book 2, 3, even 10 years later came out. Now, forget it.
#12
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
While this is true, thats not the Bruce Banner Hulk. Thats actually the "Original Hulk" in the Ultimate universe. Bruce Banner worked with him for a bit. Theres also the "Nerd Hulk" there as well who I'm pretty sure is just a clone, he doesn't have any alternate identity, just as Nerd Hulk.
#13
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
#17
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Red She Hulk though? Loeb...
Last edited by Bob_Bobbson; 07-08-10 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Typo
#18
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#19
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Marvel is calling it a "historic" release.
I'm hoping DC returns The Flash and Green Lantern to their Legacy numbers one day. The Flash moreso because it's run would extend back to the Golden Age.
I'm hoping DC returns The Flash and Green Lantern to their Legacy numbers one day. The Flash moreso because it's run would extend back to the Golden Age.
Last edited by The Valeyard; 07-08-10 at 11:22 PM.
#20
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
FYI - Looks like Iron Man is going back to it's original numbering (#500) in January (per the Bleeding Cool website).
#21
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Iron Man is another title that's confusing..... went from Iron Man to Invincible Iron Man to Iron Man Director of S.H.I.E.L.D (and I'm not sure if this title is still ongoing). Then at the same time a new Invincible Iron Man series started.
Valeyard - why are you counting down to leaving Singapore? man, I wish I had the chance to go back there. Last time I was there was 15 years ago & I checked out all the comic book stores in the island. Are there any good ones still left?
Valeyard - why are you counting down to leaving Singapore? man, I wish I had the chance to go back there. Last time I was there was 15 years ago & I checked out all the comic book stores in the island. Are there any good ones still left?
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
I've been out here for work for a little over 10 months. Singapore really doesn't agree with me. I don't do well with hot and it's hot ALL THE TIME out here. Humidity doesn't help either. Also, I'm just itching to get back home after being away for so long. Gotta catch up on family time.
And more importantly - I have nearly a year's worth of comics to catch up on! This may be the moment that makes me switch over to trades.
There are only three comic stores left out here - Comics World, G & B Comics and Absolute Comics. Two others actually closed while I was out here leaving these last three. Each one has their strengths and weaknesses.
And more importantly - I have nearly a year's worth of comics to catch up on! This may be the moment that makes me switch over to trades.
There are only three comic stores left out here - Comics World, G & B Comics and Absolute Comics. Two others actually closed while I was out here leaving these last three. Each one has their strengths and weaknesses.
#23
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Ultimate Spider-man goes back to its original numbering (#150) with the latest solicits. Its gonna be weird seeing Ultimate Spider-man #150 and Ultimate X-men # 12 (or whatever number it currently is) together.
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
It's especially weird since #150 is actually the 149th issue of the comic. Or 152nd if you count the 1/2 and two issue mini.
They did the same thing with Hulk.
They did the same thing with Hulk.
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Re: Confused by Marvel/DC's Title/Numbering System
Ultimate X-Men? Pretty sure there isn't an Ultimate X-men book running right now. Theres Ultimate X but it's only 3 issues in I think.