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September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

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September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Old 10-03-09, 05:53 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by dx23 View Post
Yes, he has done great work on different titles, but I think that he has taken the the nickname of revamp guy a little to personal. His tenure at Marvel ended on a sour note for his constant rebooting and revamping of established characters in X-Men and I kind of feel he has been doing more or less the same thing lately with the DC big guns. Maybe its just that he has been an integral part of the annoying crossover-big event-year round-non stopping gimmick that has hampered DC (Marvel too) over the last 5 years, but Final Crisis show the same weaknesses he showed at the end of his X-Men run, where he took Magneto and changed over 30 years of character development just for the hell of it. I feel he did the same to Batman, the New Gods and the DC canon in general.
His run on X-men ended in that classic modern-age way: reveal your villain as a disguised hero! and then make up some piss-poor excuse for everything happening as if it didn't happen, just so you can put the storyline behind you and then start the brand new stupid story. Jesus. Considering how strong his stand-alone issues of X-men were, "Here Comes Tomorrow" was pure shite. And I can't think of another writer in the 20 years previous who did even a decent stand alone story in the core X-men titles.
Old 10-03-09, 07:58 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Went to the Mid-Ohio Con today. Kinda disappointing. Only picked up a few books I was looking for, but it was worth the price of admission to meet one of my favorites, Fred Hembeck! Picked up the Nearly Complete Essential Hembeck Archives Omnibus from him and got a sketch of Crackers, the Clown Prince of Death inside (from Fred Hembeck Destroys the Marvel Universe).
Old 10-03-09, 08:44 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by dx23 View Post
Final Crisis show the same weaknesses he showed at the end of his X-Men run, where he took Magneto and changed over 30 years of character development just for the hell of it. I feel he did the same to Batman, the New Gods and the DC canon in general.
Y'know, I can't really disagree with you. I haven't liked his Batman stuff at all. People seem to really be digging Batman and Robin, but that isn't really doing it for me either. If All Star Superman wasn't such a recent work, I would say maybe Grant's best days are behind him, but I'll hold All Star up against anything. Actually, I think it might be the best Superman story ever told.

So I don't know what's going on. I think a good gauge will be to see how Grant's next batch of creator-owned stuff goes. One thing that might hurt his current mainstream work, is that he isn't really held to the same restrictions as other writers. That sounds like it would be a good thing, but I think it leads to him going off the deep end and getting lost in his own ideas and losing the plot. No other writer would have been allowed to do FC or Batman RIP.

But even with the last round of misses, I still say Grant is pretty stellar.
Old 10-04-09, 08:58 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by Superboy View Post


If you can, try to find his older work on Animal Man, Doom Patrol, and one of my favorite comics of all time, Zenith. If you liked Grant Morrison even just a little, you'll absolutely LOVE Zenith. The story is fully realized, the characters are interesting and endearing, the plot actually goes somewhere, the narrative is very cohesive and solid, and there's a great deal of post-modern influence on his storytelling. A brilliant work that really needs to be given the spotlight.
I actually had forgotten about Animal Man and Doom Patrol work from Morrison and I agree with you, they are fantastic.

Originally Posted by boredsilly View Post
Y'know, I can't really disagree with you. I haven't liked his Batman stuff at all. People seem to really be digging Batman and Robin, but that isn't really doing it for me either. If All Star Superman wasn't such a recent work, I would say maybe Grant's best days are behind him, but I'll hold All Star up against anything. Actually, I think it might be the best Superman story ever told.

So I don't know what's going on. I think a good gauge will be to see how Grant's next batch of creator-owned stuff goes. One thing that might hurt his current mainstream work, is that he isn't really held to the same restrictions as other writers. That sounds like it would be a good thing, but I think it leads to him going off the deep end and getting lost in his own ideas and losing the plot. No other writer would have been allowed to do FC or Batman RIP.

But even with the last round of misses, I still say Grant is pretty stellar.
I agree with you that the liberties granted to Morrison are hurting his writing and the product overall. I think he is very good at creating multi-dimensional facets out of unknown or lesser used characters, but as for tackling established icons, he is a hit or miss because he wants to use the same formula of rebooting and recreating, and no one holds him back at the Big Two since he is the darling of the industry. I think he needs to have some editor control him and say no to some of his ideas with the big characters at DC. If not, they are going to be rebooting every 2 years, when things like Final Crisis happen over and over.
Old 10-06-09, 10:38 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

so, i got the Ultimatum trade over the weekend from DCBS and read it last night. I actually like the idea behind it, I like that people died, I like that everything in the beginning happened so fast, but it seemed like they could have drug out the last battle a few issues, because it seemed so rushed at the end. And then the doctor doom thing seemed out of place, for the most part, i have like the ultimates doing things out of character for the regular MU, but unless that scene goes somewhere in the long run...
Spoiler:
like Ben Grimm dealing with the fact that he did it, or it ends up being a character turn for him
...it just seems like there are a lot more creative ways to have accomplished the same ends.
Then I realized it only took like 35-40 minuted to read the 5 issue trade? wow...i picked up the ulitmate avengers issues the other day and the newest issue of green lantern and i noticed that it took me 2x as long to read the GL book, a lot less words in the Ultimate books it seems...
Old 10-06-09, 05:47 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Geoff Johns definitely gives readers a lot of dialogue/issue, not so with a lot of Marvel titles these days.
Old 10-06-09, 07:51 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

On a note related to Ultimatum, I read the last Ultimate X-men HC (which collects the last two trades of the series). Man did this book go downhill fast, and then just fizzle out at the end. There's a point where the previous writer leaves a setup for the next writer on the book, and the main plot point is just dropped in the next issue. And I'm not sure if Ultimatum encroached on the title or if it was just really, really bad, but the ending storyline was terrible. Between this and the Loeb/Mad Ultimates, I guess it was just time for the Ultimate universe to fade into the background. It reminds me of how they totally destroyed the Ultraverse.
Old 10-06-09, 11:40 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
On a note related to Ultimatum, I read the last Ultimate X-men HC (which collects the last two trades of the series). Man did this book go downhill fast, and then just fizzle out at the end. There's a point where the previous writer leaves a setup for the next writer on the book, and the main plot point is just dropped in the next issue. And I'm not sure if Ultimatum encroached on the title or if it was just really, really bad, but the ending storyline was terrible. Between this and the Loeb/Mad Ultimates, I guess it was just time for the Ultimate universe to fade into the background. It reminds me of how they totally destroyed the Ultraverse.
I haven't read Ultimatum, but have read the reviews and summaries and it makes me wonder, what was the point then of having the Ultimate universe in the first place and why did Marvel wasted so much time in that. What bothers me the most is that they have and continue to use the Ultimate universe as source material for film and TV projects instead of using the long standing original Marvel universe.
Old 10-07-09, 02:58 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I originally thought the Ultimate Universe was supposed to be a simplified universe where new readers could jump in and not be bogged down by excessive continuity. Stuff like spiderman as a kid again, without being married, the x-men and fantastic four largely being a bunch of teenagers, etc.. Problem with that was soon enough the different writers took different directions, adding a ton of continuity with nods and winks to the "real" Marvel Universe, until it totally collapsed on itself. Somewhere along the way (maybe even with Ultimates, I don't quite remember), the universe was also targeted more towards adults than kids.

Kinda reminded me of the various reboots of the Legion of Superheroes, each time it was done to make it simpler and more accessible, and each time they made more and more nods to the original Legion until the current continuity got too convoluted.
Old 10-07-09, 03:21 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I originally thought the Ultimate Universe was supposed to be a simplified universe where new readers could jump in and not be bogged down by excessive continuity. Stuff like spiderman as a kid again, without being married, the x-men and fantastic four largely being a bunch of teenagers, etc.. Problem with that was soon enough the different writers took different directions, adding a ton of continuity with nods and winks to the "real" Marvel Universe, until it totally collapsed on itself. Somewhere along the way (maybe even with Ultimates, I don't quite remember), the universe was also targeted more towards adults than kids.

Kinda reminded me of the various reboots of the Legion of Superheroes, each time it was done to make it simpler and more accessible, and each time they made more and more nods to the original Legion until the current continuity got too convoluted.
Then the blame falls on Joe Quesada and the editors who allowed all the crap that didn't go with the original idea of making things simpler and allowed things to get more screwed up than the original Marvel Universe.
Old 10-07-09, 03:34 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I don't know for sure that a simplified universe was the intent, it's just what I thought it was. Then it became a sandbox for high profile creators to play with characters and concepts.

I think the reason we see movies based on these versions is because the world was more grounded... superheroes were still a rarity, there were no high mythological/galactic beings, and the Ultimates basically fought... themselves, instead of a Masters of Evil, for much of their run.
Old 10-10-09, 11:47 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Anyone else read Planetary #27 yet? For a last issue, I was somewhat underwhelmed.
Old 10-11-09, 09:26 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by Patman View Post
Anyone else read Planetary #27 yet? For a last issue, I was somewhat underwhelmed.
Felt the same.
Old 10-12-09, 04:10 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I haven't yet, but Planetary is on my list of series to reread. Really, the series I want to read or reread is insanely long. Just off the top of my head I want to tackle (or finish):

Cerebus (have the first 3 phonebooks, only read half of the first)
100 Bullets (up to issue 20-something, had to pause when school started)
The Losers
Planetary (a reread)
Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane (stopped reading around issue 16, need to reread it all of the McKeever stuff in one fell swoop -- I have both HCs)
Wildcats v.3.0 (or is it 2.0?)
Usagi Yojimbo
Chris Priest's Black Panther
Harley Quinn (Dodson artwork, what!?!)
Strangers in Paradise (For me to claim this is my favorite series I have a funny way of showing it. I stopped reading around issue 50-something to let it wrap up before reading it straight through. Then I said I would wait for the Omnibus. Now that fell through, so it's back to the drawing board)
Gotham Central

And these are just off the top of my head, and the series I want to tackle in the near future. There are other titles I would like to read, but I really just don't see how I could squeeze them in.

Plus, I still have all the stuff I get from the library, or the trades I've had for awhile that I haven't read yet (like The Life and Times of Scrooge Companion, which I want to read along with Life and Times proper again).

::sigh:: what is a dork to do.
Old 10-12-09, 06:54 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by boredsilly View Post
I
Cerebus (have the first 3 phonebooks, only read half of the first)
100 Bullets (up to issue 20-something, had to pause when school started)
The Losers
Planetary (a reread)
Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane (stopped reading around issue 16, need to reread it all of the McKeever stuff in one fell swoop -- I have both HCs)
Wildcats v.3.0 (or is it 2.0?)
Usagi Yojimbo
Chris Priest's Black Panther
Harley Quinn (Dodson artwork, what!?!)
Strangers in Paradise (For me to claim this is my favorite series I have a funny way of showing it. I stopped reading around issue 50-something to let it wrap up before reading it straight through. Then I said I would wait for the Omnibus. Now that fell through, so it's back to the drawing board)
Gotham Central
Awesome list (except SMLMJ, but that's just b/c of my Spidey-bias). I never got into Cerebrus, Simms is too much of a nutjob for me. 100 Bullets is as perfect of a comic book ever created, I wouldn't argue against anyone claiming it's the best they ever read. Usagi IS the most perfect comic ever created. DC is VERY likely to be releasing a Losers Hardcover collection. No confirmation on if it's going to be a omni yet. Harley Quinn is a lot of fun but once Dodson leaves it really goes downhill. Priest' Black Panther is one of my favorite creator runs ever, desperately needs to get the omni-treatment. Couldn't get into Wildcats 3.0 or whatever, tried but didn't work for me. The Gotham Central Hardcovers are phenomenal, unfortunately the series dips in quality & direction the last few issues a lot. Planetary is one of the very few utterly flawless pieces of sequntial story telling ever created.
Old 10-12-09, 08:10 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

So what you're saying is I have impeccable taste?

I think the only way I'm going to start getting through this stuff, is to just assign it to myself like homework. Otherwise, I think I get a little overwhelmed with how much there is that I want to read, and keep doing what I've been doing -- reading stuff from the library. But I also don't want to read it in a way that isn't enjoyable, so it will be something managable, like one arc from 2 or 3 stories a week -time permitting. We'll see. You can't force these things.

When you say you never got into Cerebus, does that mean you tried it and didn't like it or never tried it? Simm is definitely a character, but while I haven't read much of it yet, I could feel the story starting to shape up in an awesome way. This was only in the first phonebook, and from everything I've heard, the 2nd and 3rd really take off. I don't know if I'm going to read all 300 issues of this, but I do plan on reading a good chunk of it.

Another series I forgot to put on the list is Bone. I read nearly all of, but for some reason put it down with less than a few hundred pages to go in the complete edition. That is a pretty fast read, though, and the Comic Geek Speak podcast are having it as a book of the month for November, so I figure that's as good a time as any to finish it off, by starting it over again. Oh the pain, having to reread the wonderful Bone all over again. How ever will I manage?
Old 10-31-09, 01:32 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Blackest Night #4 - Now they killed off a character I grew to like -
Spoiler:
Damage
.

Last edited by DGibFen; 10-31-09 at 01:36 AM.
Old 10-31-09, 03:12 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I officially stopped buying comics a few months back and missing the "Blackest Night" storyline is fuckin' KILLING ME.
Old 11-03-09, 07:46 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Blackest Night 4 was pretty decent, but I'm really ready for it and Dark Reign to be totally over. I think both of these things will "reboot" their universes a bit, and give me a nice spot to jump in again.

But it's not like I'm hurting for shit to read. I just miss following the mainstream books a bit.
Old 11-09-09, 03:02 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

So, uh, when is the new Justice League going to be formed? I've been barely hanging onto the title, and was looking forward to the new lineup they've been advertising, and was "treated" to a pared down version of Vixen's JLA being taken out. Screw you, DC.
Old 11-12-09, 09:08 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I've dropped so many books, my pull list is mostly upcoming collections and trades, and slowly collecting tons and tons of backissues in trade format.

Re: Planetary #27

I thought this was a great issue. You can't build up finale issues to creator owned series. They just never satisfy. I felt the first pang when Preacher ended, and actually felt the series became really weak for the last few storylines; it had lost almost all momentum. The humor was mostly non-existent, the violence had become boring and ordinary, and the story had evaporated. Looking back, I still feel that way about the way the series ended, but I think part of why I was so disappointed was that I had built up the story so much that nothing could have satisfied me.

I approached Y: The Last Man with the attitude that the story really isn't ending; just the comic. And I came away from the finale very satisfied. I think it's important to remember that if you have to have all the stories told for you and don't use your imagination, then you'll never be satisfied by fiction.

Walking Dead #67

...on an entirely different note of storytelling, this is one comic that tells too much. I remember when I picked up the first trade, how great the setup for the storyline was (even though it had aped Day of the Triffids and 28 Days Later), and how much mystery there was surrounding the characters, their stories, and the world in which they lived. And you know, this is one of those books where a lot of what's great about it - tension - comes from what we don't know, and what the characters don't know.

There is just way, way, way too much exposition in this book, and all we do is watch characters travel from point A to point B, meandering along, having predictable adventures. The only good thing that this issue reassured me of was that we weren't going to get an explanation of what caused the Zombie Apocalypse.
Old 11-13-09, 10:13 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I know it is still going strong to many, but I don't find Walking Dead to be holding my interest much at all. And really, when I look back on the series as a whole I think its "greatness" might have been oversold a bit. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine series, but now I think of it more as a series that started out really good that is just ok now, versus a series that was great and is just good now -- if that makes any sense.
Old 11-13-09, 11:50 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Originally Posted by boredsilly View Post
I know it is still going strong to many, but I don't find Walking Dead to be holding my interest much at all. And really, when I look back on the series as a whole I think its "greatness" might have been oversold a bit. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine series, but now I think of it more as a series that started out really good that is just ok now, versus a series that was great and is just good now -- if that makes any sense.
I think it started out great, but the book has just gone way down in terms of quality. For instance...

Spoiler:
The first arc concludes with Carl shooting Shane, and then we have a brief, but dramatic moment between Carl and Rick.

If that were written the way the book is now, we would have gotten 3 issues of dialogue between Carl and Rick.


There is just way too much talking in this book, with very little actually happening. It took him almost 3 years to resolve the Prison storyarc, with almost NOTHING happening for most of the story. It could have been resolved in a matter of issues, but it dragged on needlessly. I'm all for decompressed storylines, but he's not even developing the characters. He's just pigeonholing them into typical zombie-movie roles.

It would have been interesting for him to take a new spin on Zombie fiction. He's just recycling the same message, over and over again: that humanity is a greater danger to itself than any outside threat. And while focusing on a single group of survivors gives the book a tight feel and allows a greater depth of storytelling, he needs to start opening up to other story possibilities. The Prison storyarc was a nice idea, but it was just so poorly executed. And the "Fear the Hunters" storyline just fizzled out. I can't believe I read a story where

Spoiler:
The main characters basically hack their enemies to pieces


And I felt bored the whole time.
Old 11-21-09, 03:38 AM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

Mark Waid's Irredeemable sounded like a bad concept at first; something tired and we've seen it from him before. I do love the new spin on things, however. Just imagine how terrifyingly insecure Superman must be... to be constantly scolded and persecuted even though he's an icon of heroism. I love the art, too.

The last issue felt dull though. The "revelation" felt weak and forced - almost like there wasn't a better excuse for his downfall. There didn't even need to be, and that would have been more effective. Sometimes, the weight of the world just brings too much to bear on one individual and they snap.
Old 11-21-09, 03:52 PM
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Re: September/October/November General Comic Discussion (Fall Harvest Edition)

I had the complete opposite reaction to that book. I thought the concept was badass, but after just having read the first volume this past week, I found the book lackluster in every regard. It felt like a not so good Astro City story.

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