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-   -   Comic talk for july. CONNNNN!!!!!!! (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/comic-book-talk/428934-comic-talk-july-connnnn.html)

JasonF 07-21-05 11:24 AM

You raise an excellent point, Ytrez. I didn't read Miller's Daredevil until after the fact, so a lot of the things that were Miller's innovations seemed like cliches by the time I got to them. Still, Born Again seems to transcend its time in a way that the first Miller run does not, in my opinion.

dadaluholla 07-21-05 02:42 PM

Speaking of DD, my comic book guy was telling me that Daredevil: Father #2 was finally coming out. He asked me if I was going to want it and I laughed and said not even if it was free.

Superboy 07-21-05 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by dadaluholla
Speaking of DD, my comic book guy was telling me that Daredevil: Father #2 was finally coming out. He asked me if I was going to want it and I laughed and said not even if it was free.

Maybe if they packaged it with Spider-man/Black Cat #4 and Daredevil: Target 2-4, then yeah.

ytrez 07-21-05 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by JasonF
You raise an excellent point, Ytrez. I didn't read Miller's Daredevil until after the fact, so a lot of the things that were Miller's innovations seemed like cliches by the time I got to them. Still, Born Again seems to transcend its time in a way that the first Miller run does not, in my opinion.

I haven't revisted either of Miller's runs in a while but I think I might too prefer the Born Again run.

Superboy 07-21-05 05:50 PM

Born Again rules. I managed to snag the single issues, although I'd definitely buy a re-colored Absolute Edition.

Giantrobo 07-21-05 09:28 PM

Just to break up some of this boring ass Marvel Circle Jerking... :lol:;)

I must say that I can't wait to read JSA Classified #1 :up: The JSA is greea group and the book is really cool to read. Also, Power Girl is such a cool kick ass character and I'm glad their going to try to nail down an origin that sticks.

kevin75 07-21-05 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by James W. Powell
The Invincible Ultimate Collection is the coolest damn comic book I've ever owned. It makes me proud to be a comic reader. Man oh man. Try as I might, I couldn't put it down.

that brightens my day to hear it. i have this on order and it should be here in a couple of weeks with my monthly shipment. i read the walking dead a couple of weeks ago and LOVED it so i am looking forward to this.

Rogue588 07-22-05 12:14 AM

the ULTIMATES - I'm not too excited by the "Ultimate" universe, but I get this book. Gotta say, the ending was cool.

HOUSE OF M #4 - meh. nice art.

TEEN TITANS #26 - Wasn't too impressed with the story. Or the art.

DAY OF VENGEANCE #4 - This issue seemed very "Bendis"-like.

ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #642 - I don't know how I feel about this arc. I'm not hating it though.

ASTONISHING X-MEN #11 - :whofart: wtf? did they replace Joss? This was a terrible issue.


Haven't read yet...

JSA CLASSIFIED #1 - Love the two covers. I'm hoping "the Pro" shows up. :)

BATGIRL #66 - I need to catch up on this book.

BATMAN GOTHAM KNIGHTS #67 - My comic book store missed #66 for me. So I guess i'll wait to get that one.

DETECTIVE COMICS #808 - Need to catch up on this too. Thumbed through it though. Love the art.

INCREDIBLE HULK #84 - Haven't read it yet, but I attempted to read #83. I LOVE David and he was great on the Hulk back in the day, but there should be a rule that crossovers should not interrupt running storylines.

RED SONJA #1 - Love Linsner's cover. Picked up Turner's and Ross' too.

SPIDER-MAN HOUSE OF M - I'm a Spidey and Larroca fan, so this book is okay.

ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #80 - I have no idea why I buy this book.

::Looks at book listed above::

Oh.

ROBIN #140 - I'm close to dropping this book. It'll be hard since I have the previous 139.

WOLVERINE #30 - This has just be THE dumbest storyline with some great artwork by JRJR.

4 #20 - Not sure how I feel about this. I started collecting it for the art. I think I should drop it.

MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN #16 - So, yet ANOTHER person knows Peter is Spider-Man. Jeez, maybe he should move to the DC Universe. Oh wait, Marvel did one better. They brought "Superman" to him.

ORORO #2 - I've like what i've seen of the art. Haven't read the story yet. I'll wait for the series to end.

KITTY PRYDE SHADOW & FLAME #2 - See above.

DEFENDERS #1 - Yes, the DEFENDERS. Love, just LOVE Maguire's art. I hope this one is good.

Superboy 07-22-05 03:05 AM


Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Just to break up some of this boring ass Marvel Circle Jerking... :lol:;)

I must say that I can't wait to read JSA Classified #1 :up: The JSA is greea group and the book is really cool to read. Also, Power Girl is such a cool kick ass character and I'm glad their going to try to nail down an origin that sticks.

Wow, her DEFINITIVE origin? hah.

Giantrobo 07-22-05 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by Superboy
Wow, her DEFINITIVE origin? hah.


Hey, it could be worse. She could have 2 other clones running around. ;)

Giantrobo 07-22-05 05:15 AM

Well, the comic place I've been getting stuff from fucked up on my order AGAIN last week. :grunt: Not only am I smissing stuff from WEEKS ago that I asked them to order again, when I went in today they had this week's order which was ok and another order from a month or so ago. What gives?! I'll bet it was because they were busy trying to get to that Comic-con bullshit.

I hope I can get the books I wanted that shipped last week without having to pay a "collector's markup" after only one week of release. :mad:

They just lost me as a costumer. I'll admit they were very nice and attentive when i went in and having a weekly e-mail sent to me to list what I want is cool, but screwing up such a small weekly order is LAME. Or perhaps my small orders were the reason they screwed them up? :(

Either way, I'm out.

Chew 07-22-05 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by Rogue588
DEFENDERS #1 - Yes, the DEFENDERS. Love, just LOVE Maguire's art. I hope this one is good.

Not quite as funny as the JLA runs, but still pretty good. Nobody does facial expressions like Maguire.

Also read Goon #13. The art and inking seem to be getting better and better. The story was pretty good too. :)

dadaluholla 07-22-05 07:57 AM


INCREDIBLE HULK #84 - Haven't read it yet, but I attempted to read #83. I LOVE David and he was great on the Hulk back in the day, but there should be a rule that crossovers should not interrupt running storylines.
I think I just read Hulk #83 the other night (or whatever # the first issue of the "House of M" was). It was pretty HORRIBLE. It really hasn't been good at all really since Peter David came back. I'm a big hulk fan, but if things don't pick up after this House of M crossover is over, I'll likely be dropping it.

I would drop Iron Man but with it only coming out 2-3 times a year I don't really see the need to bother. Hulk and Iron Man are 2 of my favorite characters. It would nice to see them get a good regular book again.

ytrez 07-22-05 10:41 AM

X-Men readers, please indulge my curiosity. I haven't read any of the X-titles since I don't know when, but I think Jim Lee was still drawing it when I gave up. Though I did read the Morrison hc's. I was a fan of Colossus back in the Byrne days and am vaguely aware that he died somehow. I recently got into buying statues and picked up a Colossus bust designed by John Cassidey.

Assuming he's been resurrected, any details of how such happened would be nice.

Also, the bust has some sort of razor wheel (I don't know what else to call it) embedded in the base. Anyone know what the significance of that is? I'm assuming it has something to do with the storyline.



And while I'm here, a quick RIP to Jim Aparo, my favorite Batman artist. :(

Mhepburn20 07-22-05 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by ytrez
Assuming he's been resurrected, any details of how such happened would be nice.(

Yeah, I agree, sadly we haven't be given any, not a single one. Basically he was found alive many miles underground held captive by agents in league with an alien from breakworld (?). The x-men said, "Nice to have you back." Pete said, "Yep", X-men said, "thought you died." Pete said, "Guess not." (not actually, just paraphrasing) and that's all we know about his resurrection so far, some details would be nice, but I am beginning to doubt Joss ever figured out how he could bring him back, so he just did it and hoped we would forget that Kitty spread his ashes in russia (not buried him, but spread his freaking ashes).

The Antipodean 07-22-05 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by dadaluholla
I think I just read Hulk #83 the other night (or whatever # the first issue of the "House of M" was). It was pretty HORRIBLE. It really hasn't been good at all really since Peter David came back. I'm a big hulk fan, but if things don't pick up after this House of M crossover is over, I'll likely be dropping it.

Peter David himself is apparently leaving again after the M stuff ends. Yeah, this 2nd run definitely hasn't been all that great. I did like the one self-contained issue (#82?) but the nightmare story was just lame. OH well, sometimes you can't go home again.

fujishig 07-22-05 03:43 PM

Sometimes, it's better to just ignore what bad writers did to characters you want back to "normal." Like:
The whole Spiderman Clone saga thing.
Alicia Masters turning out to have been a skrull
Colossus inexplicably dying to "cure" the Legacy virus (and before that, the whole brain damaged acolyte colossus)
Teenage tony stark
grown up Franklin Richards forming the "Fantastic Force"
"Cannonball" Sam Guthrie going from the grown-up, confident "leader" of X-Force to a bumbling rookie X-man.
Age of Apocalypse rejects Dark Beast and Sugarman being on our world
Wolverine without adamantium
"Armored" daredevil
Hawkman's origin
Powergirl's origin
Hal Jordan going nuts and killing Kilowog, as well as the whole GL corps
Hawk going nuts and becoming Monarch, all because it was leaked that Captain Atom was going to be monarch and they wanted a twist.
The immortal Highlanders actually being from outer space (okay, that one's not a comic)


Now I'm an old-school comic book fan that enjoys continuity, but I realize that there are hundreds of writers writing for these same characters, and not everything some hack writer does is good, even if it is "in continuity." So I accept the "explanation" of Colossus's death. Of the storylines above, I can't remember how any of them got resolved, I'm just happy that they did.

Superboy 07-23-05 12:58 AM


Originally Posted by fujishig
Sometimes, it's better to just ignore what bad writers did to characters you want back to "normal." Like:
The whole Spiderman Clone saga thing.
Alicia Masters turning out to have been a skrull
Colossus inexplicably dying to "cure" the Legacy virus (and before that, the whole brain damaged acolyte colossus)
Teenage tony stark
grown up Franklin Richards forming the "Fantastic Force"
"Cannonball" Sam Guthrie going from the grown-up, confident "leader" of X-Force to a bumbling rookie X-man.
Age of Apocalypse rejects Dark Beast and Sugarman being on our world
Wolverine without adamantium
"Armored" daredevil
Hawkman's origin
Powergirl's origin
Hal Jordan going nuts and killing Kilowog, as well as the whole GL corps
Hawk going nuts and becoming Monarch, all because it was leaked that Captain Atom was going to be monarch and they wanted a twist.
The immortal Highlanders actually being from outer space (okay, that one's not a comic)


Now I'm an old-school comic book fan that enjoys continuity, but I realize that there are hundreds of writers writing for these same characters, and not everything some hack writer does is good, even if it is "in continuity." So I accept the "explanation" of Colossus's death. Of the storylines above, I can't remember how any of them got resolved, I'm just happy that they did.

Zero Hour fixed Hawkman's origin

Don't forget Heroes Reborn. The quasi-Crisis fixed Teen Tony, Hawkeye's ear, and other Marvel dangling storylines.

They've also done an OK job of wrapping up X-stories. It's pretty clear who the third Summers brothers is. They finished The Twelve, Apocalypse, most of the timeline continuity errors, although recently they've really been fucking up X-men again.

Giantrobo 07-25-05 03:47 AM

Birds of Prey #84

not a spoiler

What the hell did Brainiac do to Barbara Gordon?!

I don't usually get this comic so I only bought the last issue #83 because of a supposed IC tie-in amd I bought #84 just to see what the comics is like. Plus, I like the way the girls are drawn in BOP. ;)

dadaluholla 07-25-05 12:35 PM

By the way, who was the 3rd Summers Brother?

fujishig 07-25-05 02:11 PM

And who were "The Twelve?"

From what I remember, Zero Hour did a really poor job of "fixing" Hawkman's continuity. Didn't they just combine all these different Hawkmen and some kind of Hawk avatar into one being?

I will say that I enjoy JSA because it does try to fix random breaks in DC continuity. I mean, they even brought back Infinity Inc., and they had to bring some back from Vertigo to boot! I still wonder how fans not steeped in DC lore take this book, though...

I do face a similar issue with Legion of Superheroes. On the one hand, as a lifelong fan, I miss the old post Zero Hour continuity (and I miss the real pre-Crisis superboy legion even more!). But I do admit that this new series is pretty good, though they really don't seem like "my" Legion... and Waid didn't waste time trying to explain away the reasoning behind the reset. Much cleaner this way, and I hope it finds an audience that will stick for once.

Superboy 07-25-05 05:19 PM

The Twelve were: Professor X, Storm, Sunfire, Iceman, Cyclops, Cable, Phoenix, Bishop, Magneto, Polaris, Mikhail Rasputin, and Living Monolith.

Yes, Hawkmen were all combined into one "Hawkgod", which led to the creation of the Katar Hol/Shayera entities that are continually resurrected.

Yes, JSA is a tad bit out of reach of the casual reader. Still great though.

The New Legion spun out of the Titans/Legion crossover. The Legion's future was destroyed during a battle with the Fatal Five (time-cloned to be the Fatal Five Hundred). Only one member survived the original timeline (I forget who right now). It is also being hinted that the future in Legion is a product of the upcoming Infinite Crisis. I like the series though, a nice blend of pre- and post-Crisis concepts.

Giantrobo 07-26-05 07:15 AM

I guess no one knows what happeend to Barbara....

Chew 07-26-05 09:03 AM

DC is following "Infinite Crisis" with a year-long series coming out weekly to fill in all the gaps. Assuming the writing and art is somewhat consistant (I can't imagine less than 3-4 writers/artists would be working on it), sounds like it should be interesting. With it being 52 weekly issues over the year, DC is calling it the 24 of comics.

nny 07-26-05 03:21 PM

I really like the idea of 52. I'd really like to know what creators they get on the book. I wonder if the issues will be credited to different writers or if it'll be like Countdown where the whole thing is credited to multiple writers. It'll be interesting to see if you can just pick up certain issues or if you need to pick up every issue for it to make sense. I would've expected the former until I read that the series will have 4-6 primary characters. If they can get the comic out for under $2/issue or maybe put out collections of the issues quickly and cheaply I'll definitely check it out.

bishop2knight 07-26-05 04:54 PM

Where's Sessa? I need him. :D

fujishig 07-27-05 01:06 PM

Okay, so what were "the twelve" used for? That group actually sounds familiar, from when I was still reading X-men, but I can't remember for the life of me. And who was the third summers brother?

The infinite crisis followup thing sounds interesting, though I'm not sure I'll want to pick up 52 weekly issues unless the team is consistent (which I doubt).

I've been reading the Marvel 1602 trade recently... it's pretty interesting, but shorter than I thought (only 7 issues?). How was it received when it came out? Last month I picked up a lot of great TPBs... after 1602, I still have the latest Astro City hardcover, WE3, and the first volumes of Y the Last Man (which I'm finally getting around to) and Ex Machina. And this month's comics get mailed to me next week!

JasonF 07-27-05 04:09 PM

The Twelve were originally presented in early issues of X-Factor as twelve Really Important Mutants. It was really pretty vague. Something like seven or eight were identified, and Apocolypse was one of the Twelve.

Later, it was said (or maybe just suggested) that the Twelve would be the ones to defeat Apocolypse and prevent him from ruling the world. This is about where they started pretending that Apocolypse hadn't been identified as one of the Twelve.

Still later, it was revealed that Apocolypse really wanted to gather the Twelve together to tap into their powers and somehow rule the world. He had himself started the rumors of the Twelve for reasons which were never really explained. It was, by all accounts, an extremely bad story, even by late-90s X-Men standards.

There was also some business involving the whole mythology of Cable/Nate Grey/Phoenix/Askani, but I had long since given up on reading x-books by that point, so I can't really keep it straight.

Jackskeleton 07-28-05 09:33 PM


Originally Posted by Giantrobo
I guess no one knows what happeend to Barbara....


I'm a Batgirl fanboy. So I know. It's a very long standing story arc. Back when some cult was abducting and killing off kids in hero outfits, Babs hacked into their computers and picked up a sort of Brainiac virus. She was sick for a bit and was actually becoming some what computerized. She had parts of her skin as chips. In any case, the story sort of settled down and it was swept under the rug for the following story arc. Seems like she got it under control. Every now and then you will see Babs use some new mask to jump on some network. So it's a slow process of her using this to her advantage. But lately it took over again and is effecting her.

Superboy 07-29-05 03:08 AM


Originally Posted by JasonF
The Twelve were originally presented in early issues of X-Factor as twelve Really Important Mutants. It was really pretty vague. Something like seven or eight were identified, and Apocolypse was one of the Twelve.

Later, it was said (or maybe just suggested) that the Twelve would be the ones to defeat Apocolypse and prevent him from ruling the world. This is about where they started pretending that Apocolypse hadn't been identified as one of the Twelve.

Still later, it was revealed that Apocolypse really wanted to gather the Twelve together to tap into their powers and somehow rule the world. He had himself started the rumors of the Twelve for reasons which were never really explained. It was, by all accounts, an extremely bad story, even by late-90s X-Men standards.

There was also some business involving the whole mythology of Cable/Nate Grey/Phoenix/Askani, but I had long since given up on reading x-books by that point, so I can't really keep it straight.

Apocalypse was going to use the powers of the 12 to become an extremely powerful demi-god on the level of the Eternals. It was a horrible story that was trying to tie up all the loose ends in X-men continuity. It was almost as bad as Wolvie getting his Adamantium back. ALMOST.

The third Summer bro is most likely X-treme. He's drawn almost exactly like Havok/Cyclops and has energy based powers. Also, he is immune to their energy blasts, as they are to each other. If it's not him it better not be Gambit, because that theory has already been discredited. If you want more info check out Uncannyxmen.net.

Chew 07-29-05 06:06 AM

A nice start to the new arc in JLA Classified #10. Guice's art is great as always.

Giantrobo 07-29-05 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
I'm a Batgirl fanboy. So I know. It's a very long standing story arc. Back when some cult was abducting and killing off kids in hero outfits, Babs hacked into their computers and picked up a sort of Brainiac virus. She was sick for a bit and was actually becoming some what computerized. She had parts of her skin as chips. In any case, the story sort of settled down and it was swept under the rug for the following story arc. Seems like she got it under control. Every now and then you will see Babs use some new mask to jump on some network. So it's a slow process of her using this to her advantage. But lately it took over again and is effecting her.


Thanks Jackskeleton! :up:

fujishig 07-29-05 02:29 PM


Originally Posted by Superboy

The third Summer bro is most likely X-treme. He's drawn almost exactly like Havok/Cyclops and has energy based powers. Also, he is immune to their energy blasts, as they are to each other. If it's not him it better not be Gambit, because that theory has already been discredited. If you want more info check out Uncannyxmen.net.

There's no way there's actually a character called X-treme, is there?

Liquid Death 07-29-05 03:37 PM

Yeah...he was pretty lame, if I recall - it was during the 90s, all kinds of craziness was going on.

Superboy 07-30-05 02:51 AM

Unfortunately, he's a real character. Blah to Howard Mackie.

Liquid Death 07-30-05 10:55 AM

Here's a link to a page about X-Treme (and is apparently beloved by at least the author):

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/adamxxtreme.htm

JasonF 07-30-05 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by Superboy
Unfortunately, he's a real character. Blah to Howard Mackie.

Fabian Nicieza, actually. I never read anything with X-Treme, and that sure is a lame name, but Fabe usually does good work, so I'm assuming the character isn't quite as lame as he sounds.

Liquid Death 07-30-05 01:31 PM

Was going through some PVPonline strips and thought this one was great, considering what was going down with HeroesCon & Wizard:

http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20050725

Link to Matt Fraction's editorial about the upcoming Wizard World Atlanta and how it will affect HeroesCon (from CBR):

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...em.cgi?id=5635

Patman 07-31-05 09:50 PM

There was a long thread on Millar's World about the WizardWorld ATL being held on the same weekend as Heroes 2006, and pretty much it's a big F-U to Wizard on this one. The last I heard, WizardWorld ATL will not go in 2006, but will look for a better time in 2007.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/show...threadid=39363

Warren Ellis and Mark Millar will be at Heroes 2006 as well, plus many other pro's who have decided to rally around Shelton Drum's little comic convention that could.

http://www.millarworld.net/index.php?showtopic=51817

Liquid Death 07-31-05 11:12 PM

Thanks for the links and the good news!

With this latest stunt by Wizard and the increased promotional nature of their magazine, I'd like to subscribe to a different comic magazine (tho I don't think there are too many) - any favorites and/or how is Comics Buyers Guide? Looks like a 12 issue montly sub is around $20 on eBay...


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