My fave Juggernaut story was in X-Men.. where Wolverine has Juggernaut and Piotr [Colossus] pick a fight with each other in a bar so he could blow off some steam about Kitty.

devilshalo.....ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.......I liked that one, too. Especially the pic of Logan with his claws 2" from Juggy's nose...

Sorry, Eric. (Magnus) (Lennsherr???) I would black out if I could. I am a really huge Marvel fan. DC, besides Batman (I actually really liked the 'No Man's Land' arc...) has never really piqued my interest. I thought the Stan Lee stuff would bring me around, but it really hasn't. More a slap on SL's face than DC's...

Not to hijack, but if ANYONE is willing to instruct this poor, idiot soul on how to darken areas, I would be very appreciative...












ps - C'mon.....I want a Phoenix question. I stole her name, man. It's the least I can do.............................

I haven't really read mainstream DC in years- I mostly pick up the Batman stuff in TPB form, that and Vertigo stuff. The independants DC has acquired recently like Wildstorm is good stuff too.

Great stuff it's all very interesting.

(I'm a origin freak)

Please tell me you're not talking about Origin, the series about Wolvie's past.....

Biggest.

Disappointment.

EVER.

No not "ORIGIN". I heard about it but never read it but I like Wolverine so maybe one day....

I meant character Origins in general.

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkestPhoenix
Please tell me you're not talking about Origin, the series about Wolvie's past.....

Biggest.

Disappointment.

EVER.

And now they're getting ready to F up the Punisher's origin with BORN.

From Previews.."For decades readers throught the Punisher's crusade against the criminal underworld began with the brutal murder of his loving wife and daughter in Central Park. But that isn't the whole story. In the tradition of Wolverine:Origin, witness the true birth of the Punisher years before, as Marine Frank Castle the man enters his third tour of duty in Vietnam, but leaves a force of nature."..

The best explaination of subsequent events in the Phoenix story is probably the Classic X-Men reprint of X-Men 101, in the backup story. John Bolton did the art and Claremont wrote it, so it's quite canonical. It's a wonderful story.

That issue is worth owning just for the Art Adams cover, his take on the superb iconic image of Cockrum's cover for the original issue. I have the reprint and the original, both. Classic stuff.

Is that the one with Jean Grey and ?

That was pretty damned good. Really, most of the backups in Classic X-Men were worthwhile. I was really disappointed when they stopped doing them.

No. This is it:

The later Adams version is the same scene, viewed more from above, with Jean/Phoenix a bit higher in the sky. This is one of my favorite covers in Marvel history.

One of my favorites, as well. I had to buy both the phoenix statues, mainly for my love of this awesome cover, and the love of both 'sides' of this character.

While i don't really buy any Marvel books myself either - the Rawhide Kid one is really funny. I know they might have been trying to do something chocking or controversial and it totally failed - but i think so far it has been a pretty funny run.

Here's the Art Adams version:

Yep, that's it. Good to have on hand so I'm not constantly fishing the original out of the bag and getting my grubby paws on it...

Don't worry. He'll be back. Its Marvel you're talking about here.

Dating myself here, but whatever happened to/who was Cable?

I don't know anything about his present whereabouts but wasn't he Scott Summers(Cyclops) and some other mutants son from a future timeline???

The original story was that he was the son of Scott and Madelyne Pryor, Scott's one-time wife, who was a clone of Jean Grey. They had to send him into the future to help him defeat that virus he'd been infected with that was slowly spreading cybernetic parts through his system.

How those chuckleheads at Marvel may have altered that in the last few years is unknown to me.

Last I checked, Cable was Nathan Summers, the baby that Madelyn Pryor had with Scott back in Uncanny X-Men #201.

After the events of "Inferno" (approx. Uncanny X-Men #240-243 and X-Factor #36-40) Scott and Jean decided to raise baby Nathan together.

But since babies and children are kind of a pain in the ass to keep in superhero continuity, Apocalypse attempted to kill little Nate by infecting him with a techno-virus and a woman calling herself Askani appeared and took the baby into the future, as the current technology was unable to save him. (Approx. X-Factor #65-69)

In the future, little Nathan was cloned in an attempt to cure him. The clone grew up to be Strife, and little Nate grew up to be Cable. (Cable's cybernetic arm and face were the result of Apocalypse's virus).

At some point, both traveled back to the present to start some ****, hence Cable's appearance in New Mutants #87. Interesting to note that Cable showed up about a year before little Nathan was taken into the future.

The writers continually dropped ham-fisted hints that Cable and Nathan were one and the same until it was officially revealed in the crossover X-Cutioner's Song.

And, by that time, I had stopped following the X-books, so if they've since modified his origin or otherwise retconned it, I'm unaware of it.

I guess it's worth noting that in recent years, Cable had his own series, which changed to Soldier X about a year ago. I haven't kept up with the character, though.

It's a damn shame that so many of you think Marvel has really gone to crap the last few years. I read a lot of the X-universe in the late 1980s and a little in the early 1990s - which were fantastic periods, imo. Over the last year or so I have seriously thought about getting back into collecting some new and old stuff, but the way you guys make it sound, I will be wasting my time w/ the new stuff. I am glad I read this thread - thanks for the info. Guess I will dive into the classics. Can anyone recommend any good tpb's that cover the first twenty to twenty-five years or so of the Xmen? Would be much appreciated.

So Logan's Origin story sucks? Because I was really looking into buying this...more input please.

You know, I am basically in the same boat. Read up until #300 or #315 of Uncanny (and accompanying series) and then dropped out. Having gone back and read up on some of the plots and past issues --- damn.... wtf happened. A lot of the decisions and directions seem to be pretty half-assed. The Onslaught thing reeks of selling books rather than telling stories (and it did work). It seems that they they would do something and then reverse, do something and then reverse. This character dies, then they're back. This character changes sides, then goes into a coma, then comes back as their old self... Yada yada yada. Plus, they seem to have killed off a lot of the great characters (or had them leave) and replaced them with crap.

The biggest one, IMO, was having Gambit be the traitor in X-Men -- more appropriately, the reason for it. That had, what, a 30-50 book lead-up? 3-5 years? Lots of hints, mentions, etc... And then, bang, turns out he helped out with an event way back in the early 200s that lasted a couple issues (plus ramifications). Ummmm, ok... When I read that, I was baffled. They didn't know where to go with that, nor what the reason/cause of the traitor, so they just threw it together for some anniversary issue -- 325 or 350, whatever it was...

I guess if someone actually read the books rather than a summary could tell me it was done better than it seems in retrospection, then I'd gladly edit that rant out, but from the sounds of it, Marvel has dropped off of late.

Fortunately, for the movies, there's plenty of quality from Claremont that they can formulate plots around.

Given the extremely limited availability of this title (ie. not at my local store), what other Juggernaut books would you recommend?

What Marvel really screwed up on in the 90s X-Men was the issue of Nightcrawler's parentage, IMO.

The original plan was to have had

Instead, they just somehow tied (I actually forget how) tied him to one of those lame-assed Lobdell/Nicieza era new characters, Graydon Creed.

The similarity of Beast and Nightcrawler is hard to ignore....

Blue furry animal like Mutants. Was there ever a family link between the 2? It would make sense.

And why does Beast lose his hair???