Gamblor187

This week I picked up:


JLA #58


The Flash #178 - Geoff Johns may be the only one to make Gorilla Grodd not seem like a ridiculous idea for a villain.

Green Arrow #8

Spiderman: Tangled Web #4 and #5 -Somehow it escaped my attention that Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo were doing a Spider-Man story. Now I'm playing catch-up.

The new set of "Spider-Man Classics" figures is out, and I picked up the Steve Ditko version of Spider-Man, as well as the Daredevil figure. Nice figures.

Question Of The Week (as suggested in last week's thread):

What are the most overrated graphic novels and trade paperbacks?

I have one title that immediately comes to mind, but I'll post it later. I owe some responses in other threads.

jim

Liquid Death

FYI, according to Wizard, Born Again (the Frank Miller Daredevil TPB) is coming back in print at the end of October. This TPB was mentioned in the last comics thread.

Other TPBs of note coming out in October:

Complete Danger Girl Collection
Sentry (mini and all one shots)
X-Force #116-#120

I picked up a bunch of comics yesterday, but I haven't gotten around to reading any yet. Is anyone else reading Generic Comic Book? I missed #3 (#4 came out yesterday) - what color is the cover? Ministry of Space #2 also came out yesterday, after having been delayed for what seems like forever (in case anyone else was waiting for it).

I'll post some thoughts on the new comics when I get to them

And I had the HARDEST time trying to locate those new Spider-Man toys (I just wanted Daredevil). I must've went to about 10 stores over a 2 week period and I *finally* got 1 yesterday after running into a KB toy store employee at the comic book store and he recognized me. He went with me back to KB and got 1 of the 2 Daredevil toys out of the case for me in the back. It was $8 though, but at least I got it. <phew> If Walmart ever gets them in, I'll probably buy the classic Spider-Man.

Other Must Read TPBs (I'm playing catch up):

Batman: The Long Halloween
Kingdom Come
Marvels
JLA: Earth 2 (I think thats the correct title)

Overrated:

JLA Year One (I must've started this about 12 times and I can't finish the second issue)

Batman: Black & White (some of the stories are great, others are not so great, and the huge format makes storing it a pain).


As a sidenote - is JLA: Tower of Babel out yet in TPB?

Gamblor187

Was that issue #2??? I got the first issue and saw the new one today. It's so late that I figured that I must have already missed parts 2 and 3. I wasn't too impressed by the first issue, but I have enough faith in Warren Ellis to give the second one a try.

jim

MrN

Ministry of Space 2 was great. Hopefully 3 will come out quicker because the story, I think, would be great read all at once. Great art too btw.

Harley & Ivy - I expected better, especially from Chiodo.

Vampirella 2 - I like the artist but 1 was better. Don't think I'll be buying this once the story concludes next issue.

Picked up a couple of other things like Angel and the Ape 2 and the Superman book but haven't read them yet.

Over-rated TP/GNs? Hard to say because I normally don't buy expensive items unless they come recommended. I'll have to say the first Cerebus TP. The second through fourth were good (thats all I read so far) but I almost didn't get get to them because the first was very amateurish and cliche.

I hesitate to pan some other candidates because they might be someone's cup o' tea but didn't quite work for me.

Sessa17

Haven't read a thing yet but I picked up. . .

Origin #2 - (Ships next week) Yes, we find out who Wolverine is in this issue. Also this issue #1 is not even 1 month old yet & my store just sold 2 copies for $25

Queen & Country #4 - You are absolutely missing out on one of the best comics to come out in the past few years if you are not reading this. Rucka is the most underrated writer in comics & this is him at his best.

Green Arrow #8

JLA #58

New X-men #117 - By far my favorite comic being published right now. Morrison's run has been briliant & the ending to this issue again just shocked me.

Wolverine #168 - A lot of people have complained about this story arc but I like it alot.

Out There #5 - Pretyy much only buying this one for Ramos's art, the story is really slow & pretty cliched.

X-reme X-men: Savage Land #1

Savage Dragon #89 - Don't like this book like a use to but it's still a fun read.

U.S. War machine #3

Sessa17

Yes.

I think the question of the week is going to be a touchy one for comic fans as someone is sure to love what somebody else thinks is overrated. Any way my controversial picks are all of Frank Millers trades(works) outside of his run on Daredevil. That's right I said it, I do think DNR is great but not at all what people claim it to be, the story telling is indeed fantastic but the book is just not entertaining for me & that afterall should be the point of any comic, Ronin I think is just horrible, & Sin City again I just don't see why so many people think it is so innovative. Maybe I just don't get his stuff. But his run on Daredevil is amongst my all-time favorite creator runs & I enjoyed his work on Wolverine as well.

Al Infinitum

I was halfway kidding when I recommended the topic last week. Doing a "most overrated" post can be a bit touchy, but so long as we don't get overly spiteful about it, we should be ok.

Fortunately, "overrated" is open to interpretation. I actually like many of the graphic novels I consider overrated, just not as much as the majority of comic readers. For example, by far the most overrated graphic novel is Watchmen, a book which I have heard referred to as "great American literature." Watchmen was a very good comic, so people tend to forget that it nearly fell apart at the end. Moore structured Watchmen perfectly as a story about the morals of superhumans, but then twisted it at the climax and overstepped the boundaries he himself established. For years, the ending tainted the entire book in my mind, until I was finally able to accept that Moore was doing something new and, in his enthusiasm, attempted to push his story further than it could reasonably go.

Two series that never quite made it for me were Bone and Love and Rockets. I read the first collection of Bone and, while it was enjoyable, I was not inspired to pick up the second volume. Rockets, on the other hand, brought me about halfway through its first entry (Music for Mechanics) when I finally abandoned the effort. Are these series overrated? It's hard for me to judge, since I didn't make it very far into either. My suspicion is that Bone might have hit me differently if I read it in a different frame of mind, or had I been younger. I would tend to come down a bit more harshly on Rockets, which played like a bad soap opera for me. Rockets reminded me of Heavy Metal, another series I don't much care for - it relies too heavily on the audience being entertained by its ultra-hip characters interacting in a pulp science fiction setting.

Honorable mention for "most overrated" goes to Kingdom Come which looks to be headed to the "classics" category. Yes, it's beautiful, but doesn't anyone read anymore?

Liquid Death

Actually, I think the ads in other comics/Wizard were solicting #3 as having come out this month, and I just figured I had missed #2. However, it was indeed #2 that came out this week. I actually liked the first issue and was looking forward to the 2nd

Liquid Death

Last night, I read Generic Comic Book #4 (I missed #3 :'( and, like #1 and #2, its hilarious. The main character finds out his father is "The Man!" and it just gets wilder from there.

I also read Angel and the Ape #2 (of 4) - I really enjoyed both this and the first issue and I look forward to the other two.

As far as Frank Miller is concerned, I love almost everything he's done I really enjoy crime stuff (stories which Miller, Bendis, and Azzarello?..the guy on 100 Bullets), and as such, I really like most of the Sin City stuff...the only TPB I didn't much care for was Booze, Broads and Bullets (a lot of short stories). Sin City, Dame to Kill for, and Hell & Back were all fantastic, with that Yellow B@st@rd slightly behind. I have Ronin, but thats another TPB I can't really get into.

And thanks for the info about Tower of Babel - I'll have to pick that one up at some point

MrN

I would of course respectfully disagree with the choices of Watchmen and Sin City.

Watchmen of course was very innovative - I didn't even notice until someone pointed out that there's not a single thought balloon in the whole book. I'm not sure what you meant, Al, about overstepping the boundaries but then I don't want to give away the ending by talking about it. I personally thought it was well constructed while at the same time breaking the big villain's cliche.

Sin City, I'll admit was much fresher in the beginning but now the novelty has worn out. If you like film noir at all, this is the book for you. If not, well, nothing great here. Truthfully, this would probably be worse if it was a regular series. But since it only comes out every now and then, I look forward to it....

The Antipodean

Nor a single caption, unless you count the Rorscach journal entries! Very cinematic structure and I still count this as among my favorite comics ever. The ending may be a bit out there but if I had to pick one comic as my favorite ever this would be in the top three or so. (Eisner's "Spirit" and Lee/Ditko "Spider-Man" probably the other two)

Overrated? "Marvels" for sure, "Kingdom Come" less so but also a little bit. I think Alex Ross and Kevin Smith in general are the two most over-hyped talents in a long time. They're both quite talented but the way Wizard spews all over them is a slap in the face to all the other equally-talented creators out there. There are MANY better writers than Smith in comics and Ross isn't even the best painter in comics IMHO (I prefer Dave McKean).

Gamblor187

A few comments on the books I picked up this week....

JLA #58 - Mark Waid's run on this book has been quite good, so I'll forgive this, the first bad issue he's written for the title. A disappointing end to anotherwise good story arc.

Green Arrow #8 - I like the work that Kevin Smith has done on this title, but I'll agree with others that he is definitely overrated. I'm not with those who would say that his scripts are too wordy, but I do have a bit of a problem with a story arc lasting this long. With his work here and on "Daredevil", Smith seems to want all of his stories to have an epic quality. I'd like to see him do a few 3-4 issue stories instead of this 10 issue stuff. It's good, but I must admit that it's starting to drag.

Spider-Man's Tangled Web #5 and #6 - When I returned to comics back in college, Spider-Man was one of my favorite characters. Sadly, the Spidey titles went downhill for a long time and I stopped reading them. Well, finally, Marvel has learned a lesson. I feel that they became to comfortable with the character, sure that it would sell strongly regardless of quality. The endless crossovers and the infamous clones storyline proved them wrong. Now, they've got some great writers involved with these titles, and these are some of my favorite books. This storyline in "Tangled Web" is sure to be on my "best of" list st the end of the year. A smart, funny, character-driven story with very little action....and almost no Spider-Man.

The Flash #178 - I'm waiting to read this one. I was able to track down all of the Geoff Johns issues of this title (big thanks to www.gustycomics.com, my favorite place to find reasonably priced backissues), and I'm gonna start reading from the beginning of his run.


I had some money sitting in my account at Switchhouse so I placed a big order. I'm getting:

"Safe Area Gorazde" (Hardcover) by Joe Sacco
"Pussey" by Daniel Clowes
"David Boring" (Hardcover) by Daniel Clowes
"Whiteout" by Greg Rucka

As far as overrated graphic novels and TPBs go....

I'd agree with some of the comments about Frank Miller. I feel that "The Dark Knight Returns" is good, but overrated (at least in terms of quality...Its incredible influence and importance to the medium cannot be denied). I also like the little bit of "Daredevil" stuff I've read by him. I'm a huge noir buff, and I like the first "Sin City" collection. I've been less than impressed with the rest of the books in the series and most of Miller's other work (Martha Washingtom, 300, etc.)

Grant Morrison - There are times when he's great ("Animal Man"), but I find him very inconsistent (his run on "JLA").

Preacher - The most overrated book in recent memory. I know that there are many fans of this book here, so I'll say it is nice as I can. I despise this book. For me, it is an example of placing shock over storytelling. A "mature readers" label and the freedom given by lack of the Comics Code can sometimes free up a writer to do his best work. Unfortunately, just as often it is an excuse to see how much he can get away with and who he can try to offend.

Al Infinitum

Replying by numbers:

1) Watchmen - my biggest problem with the ending was that it broke the "rules" established by the mood of the rest of the book. I agree that we should not discuss this in detail, so I will leave it by saying that I did enjoy this title and recognize it as having begun a new direction for the superhero genre. Still recommended, and still an "essential," but not placed as highly on my own personal favorites as some other titles.

2) Dark Knight Returns - Miller seems to have an excellent grip on the Batman character and I much enjoyed both this and his Year One. I can understand people considering this overrated, because it lacks the scope of something like Watchmen, but I do believe Miller more or less accomplished his goal with this work.

3) Marvels - I included this title as an essential last week, but I do agree that it is overrated by some. Still, I consider it vastly superior to...

4) Kingdome Come - it's going to be a long time until I will buy something by Mark Waid again. I found his dialogue, characterization and story structure all severely lacking. The narrator was disruptive, the portrayal of Batman was misguided and minor characters were introduced by the truckload, only to be ignored. The terrible epilogue barely even registered for me by the time I finished this book. Should this be branded a classic in the years to come, this title will easily top my "most overrated" list.

I've intentionally been avoiding Preacher based on the opinion of a friend, but I may just be enough of a masochist to give it a shot at some point. I do plan to take a look at Sin City down the line, but I purchased more than half a dozen graphic novels based on last week's thread so it'll have to fall somewhere after those. I have to distance myself a bit from noir, for the moment, since I've read the entire L.A. quartet by Ellroy and Hammett's The Maltese Falcon, all in the past two months. I'm burned out on people trying to make things right in a world without morals.