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Amazon Kindle - ebooks & readers v "traditional"

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Amazon Kindle - ebooks & readers v "traditional"

Old 11-21-07, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
1. Up to 200 books on one device.
Not an advantage for me. I don't carry around multiple books.

2. Daily newspapers
Eh. Websites are fine for this.

3. Done with your book? The ability to order a new one right from the device.
For more than a paperback, DRMed to hell, and non-permanent. No thanks.
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Old 11-21-07, 11:56 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
So I'm going to spend $400 for a device that is "very similiar" to reading off paper?
By the time these are commonplace A) they will not be $400 and B) they will be much closer to reading off paper than they are now.
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Old 11-21-07, 04:11 PM
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I received my wife's Kindle yesterday and she's already started buying books in Kindle format and will likely start using it full time starting tonight.

All I see is complaints here and there concerning this, and most of you have not even held the device!

The purpose for us is to minimize storage space by not having physical books.

My wife usually carries 2-3 books with her most of the time and this is exactly what we need.

I'll snap some pics later of the device if anyone is interested
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Old 11-21-07, 10:34 PM
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Having seen it in action, can you give any instant impressions of the thing? I don't see myself ever switching over entirely to an ebook reader (I just love the feel of a book in my hand too much), but I am interested in how this works.
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Old 11-22-07, 10:45 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
For more than a paperback, DRMed to hell, and non-permanent. No thanks.
I don't understand the DRM arguement. They have to make money. People would just copy them over and over, that isn't fair. You can't just copy a whole book and give it to your friend, why should you be able to do the same just because it's digital?

And it is permanent in a way. Your book will always been in the Amazon database, so if you lose your kindle or upgrade you do not have to pay for the books again.

And the prices range from 1.99 to 9.99, I wouldn't call that more than a new paperback.

This device is not for you Tracer, but there is a (growing) market out there. As proven by the device being sold out.
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Old 11-22-07, 11:50 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Drop
I don't understand the DRM arguement. They have to make money. People would just copy them over and over, that isn't fair. You can't just copy a whole book and give it to your friend, why should you be able to do the same just because it's digital?
So what? Piracy is going to be rampant anyway. DRM causes problems for legitimate users and doesn't affect pirates at all. I guarantee you these Kindle books will be pirated.
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Old 11-22-07, 12:03 PM
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For those of you using an e-book reader, where do you use them? There just seem to be a lot of places where it would seem less convenient to me than a regular book. When you are flying, I assume you can't turn these things on during take-off or landing. I like being able to open up a book as soon as I find my seat on a plane. Also, there are just some places I'm probably not going to feel comfortable taking a $400 device unless I'm going to be able to watch over it all the time.

I agree that there needs to be a way to prevent illegal copying, but I hate giving up the option of loaning, giving away, or selling books that I've purchased if I decide I don't want them. That seems to be the biggest problem with the DRM. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure how you would be able to do any of these with the Kindle.

I wouldn't rule out owning some type of e-book reader in the future, and I understand some of the reasons why others may be excited about them. I just can't imagine them replacing regular books for me.
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Old 11-23-07, 04:51 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
I agree that there needs to be a way to prevent illegal copying, but I hate giving up the option of loaning, giving away, or selling books that I've purchased if I decide I don't want them. That seems to be the biggest problem with the DRM. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure how you would be able to do any of these with the Kindle.
That isn't so much a problem with the DRM as it is just a condition to consuming digital media. You can't sell the albums you buy off of iTunes or videogames you download from a digital distribution services (with a few exceptions) when you're through with them. In that regard, Amazon's ebook service is falling right in line.
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Old 11-23-07, 05:04 AM
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I must say - when I travel I like to read an actual book. Many times they don't let you turn on your electronic devices at various points of the whole airline boarding procedure. Thats why a book is still the safest, nicest and easiest way to pass ones' time while traveling. I choose a book over an Ipod, because an Ipod is obviously an electronic device and I need to turn it on/off depending on the stewardess' commands. A Book bypasses ALL of the above - you can enjoy it anywhere.

The Kindle won't work in the above scenario for me, and I can only imagine by 2015 how many of these gadgets we're supposed to be carrying around (Blackberry, Iphone, Ipod, Laptop, Kindle - all a bit much)
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Old 11-23-07, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by boredsilly
That isn't so much a problem with the DRM as it is just a condition to consuming digital media. You can't sell the albums you buy off of iTunes or videogames you download from a digital distribution services (with a few exceptions) when you're through with them. In that regard, Amazon's ebook service is falling right in line.
This is true. It's one of the reasons that I still prefer buying a physical CD over using iTunes unless I'm just looking for a specific song. Most of the time, there is not enough incentive, financial or otherwise, for me to give up the benefits of physical media.

The comparison to digital music is a good one, and I was thinking about it after my last post. At least with an iPod or other MP3 player, consumers have the option of purchasing a physical CD and using a computer to put their music on the digital player at no extra charge. With a Kindle, if I want to have access to my exisiting library, I have to buy the books a second time.

One of the Amazon reviewers mentioned that Amazon should give a free or discounted Kindle version of the book to anyone who purchases a physical edition from them. I understand why Amazon and publishers wouldn't want to do this though.

Having said all that, I watched the demonstration video on Amazon last night and spent a little more time reading about the Kindle. It has some features I like. I wouldn't mind playing around with one, but not at that price.
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Old 11-23-07, 01:11 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Buckleyesque
I can only imagine by 2015 how many of these gadgets we're supposed to be carrying around (Blackberry, Iphone, Ipod, Laptop, Kindle - all a bit much)
Most of those will just be one item, so it won't be an issue (some all ready are). Plus adding kindle there is irrelevant, you'd still be caring around a book, which could be heavier and/or bulkier.

The only time I was told on plane or boarding not to use my electronic device was when I didn't want to use it anyway, take offs and landings.

I see no reason in the future that buying a physical copy won't have a digital version come free. And by then it would be economically sensible.

Why do so many people not understand that things change and evolve. Some of things people are saying is like 30 years ago people going, "I'm gunna need a computer and a TV and a record player and a cassete player, plus a videogame system in my house, well that's too much clutter, who would want all that?"

Technology has always been about convenience, but at first they have a certain degree of inconvenience, but they become refined and combined.

If there weren't a ton of cons to the present Kindle I'd be shocked.
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Old 11-23-07, 08:10 PM
  #37  
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It has possibilities. But I love paper. Paper is easy to read, it boots up and goes straight to my page in under two seconds, and I can lend it to someone.

The last three books I've read were two loaners and a used $0.50 paperback. The Kindle is trying to prevent people from doing that.
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Old 11-24-07, 07:11 AM
  #38  
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I agree with most people on here in the regard that I love the feel of an actual book in my hands, but the instant digital delivery appeals to my laziness too. There's no way that I'm going to pay $400, but if it were to drop a couple hundred (and I'd be willing to bet that within a year or two there will be drastic price drops), I'd probably pick one up. I think that if this model becomes standard on college campuses (and I don't see why it wouldn't one day), the book binding industry would take a huge hit.
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Old 11-24-07, 07:50 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by juanmgonzalez
I received my wife's Kindle yesterday and she's already started buying books in Kindle format and will likely start using it full time starting tonight.

All I see is complaints here and there concerning this, and most of you have not even held the device!

The purpose for us is to minimize storage space by not having physical books.

My wife usually carries 2-3 books with her most of the time and this is exactly what we need.

I'll snap some pics later of the device if anyone is interested
yes I would expect lots of interest.
also people are afraid of change, just like now people are complaining that Marvel Comics jumps into the digital age.it`s called progress. maybe we should go back to the Pony Express lol.
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Old 11-24-07, 12:47 PM
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I'm tempted by this.

My wife takes four or five books on vacation, and also goes from here to there on appointments. Is the screen durable enough to ride around in a purse all the time?
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Old 11-24-07, 09:53 PM
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I would consider it, but a strong selling point for me would be if I buy a physical book from Amazon I get the kindle version for free. This way you get the best of both worlds.
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Old 11-24-07, 09:57 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by davidh777
Is the screen durable enough to ride around in a purse all the time?
The Kindle comes with what they call a "book cover," essentially a little carrying case with a front cover that flips open, similar to that for Palm or other handheld devices.
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Old 11-24-07, 10:40 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
The Kindle comes with what they call a "book cover," essentially a little carrying case with a front cover that flips open, similar to that for Palm or other handheld devices.
Interesting, thanks
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Old 11-26-07, 11:28 AM
  #44  
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its cool but looks outdated already. PLus the screen looks outdated, It cant produce color images either, so what would it be like looking at magazines etc.
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Old 11-26-07, 03:15 PM
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Here is my 2 cents on the whole ebook thing and the kindle specifically...

I switched over to almost exclusively ebooks about 4 years ago. I read mainly sci fi, fantasy, military fiction and mystery. I have had little trouble finding LEGAL versions of the books i want, and those I can't I buy the dead tree version, and find a slightly less kosher ebook version (i really do believe in paying the author for the books i read!). I have even had a few cases where I have inquired as to ebook versions from particular authors (who have web pages) and received what I assume are personal word documents from the author since they do not have ebook versions of the books I was looking for. (to be honest, this was a single author, who I had had a lively discussion with in a forum, so it was not that out of the blue!!)

I read on my PALM TREO phone. Someone above mentioned all the electronic items they have to carry, but having a separate gadget for each activity seems pointless to me. My Treo covers books, music, light web surfing, email, and phone. There are many other devices that can do all of that as well. Add a laptop to that and I can not thing of any other electronic items I need.
As far as the use of an electronic reader on a plane, I have never had trouble with my Treo outside of the actual take off and landing. For those 10-15 minutes, I either sleep, or if I am really bored read the inflight mags.

I think the downfall of the Kindle will be that it is a single purpose device. I have played with the Sony ereader in person and did not like its size. One of the best things about the treo is i can pull it out and read ANYWHERE!!! In line at the store, sitting in a meeting, on the john, etc. It fits in my pocket, and it goes everywhere with me. Yes, the screen is slightly smaller that I would like, but I am a very fast reader. I can read a normal pulp paperback...think "mens adventure" or your typical dungeons and dragons novel from 10 years ago (fluff books!!) in a 2 day span. I typically read 2-3 books in a given week, depending on how good it is. (if its good, I will find myself reading at every spare moment). I have never had an issue with back-lit screens and actually really enjoy the fact that I can read in the dark with no issues, or read at the pool on summer afternoon on the same device!!!

Rather than new reading devices, I would rather see some standards come to ebooks, as well as less DRM, or at least more platform independent DRM so I can choose what I want to read on. I like MOBIPOCKET, since I can take almost any plain text, word, or htm document and create my own mobi version with cover art etc.

Well, just my $0.02
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Old 11-27-07, 04:27 PM
  #46  
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Pros
- I love the idea of the incorporated dictionary and Wikipedia support.

Cons
- I love the idea of e-ink, but I wish there was an option to switch it to backlight if it got dark.
- The lack of flexibility in data conversion... it sounds like you have to run everything through Amazon's site to convert. I'd prefer a standalone app and just to transfer via SD card.
- The wireless mode is cool, but I wish there was a cheaper option without it, because I'm waaay out of the coverage area. The nearest spot I can even pick up the EVDO is a 4 hour drive away.
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Old 11-27-07, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DRG
- I love the idea of e-ink, but I wish there was an option to switch it to backlight if it got dark.
The idea of e-ink is that it's as reflective as regular paper, making it as easy to read in normal light conditions. A backlight wouldn't work very well, think of trying to read a piece of paper lit from behind. I would think a standard booklight might work well with it though. Also, a backlight would eat up the battery time very quickly, not making it feasible as an e-book reader for many.

- The lack of flexibility in data conversion... it sounds like you have to run everything through Amazon's site to convert. I'd prefer a standalone app and just to transfer via SD card.
There already is a standalone app that you can use to convert, it's called Mobipocket Creator:
http://www.mobipocket.com/en/Downloa...ilsCreator.asp

I believe you can transfer to the Kindle via USB.
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Old 11-28-07, 11:37 AM
  #48  
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Slate magazine's review: http://www.slate.com/id/2178594/nav/tap3/

If you go by the wisdom of the blogs, however, the Kindle is less the iPod of books than the Apple IIc of books. Early adopters have groused about the oversized PREV PAGE and NEXT PAGE buttons, which make it tough to pick up the device without accidentally paging through the book you're reading. They've also sneered at Amazon's copy protection, which is so crippling that you can't even buy an e-book for a Kindle-owning pal.

My first six days with the Amazonian e-reader have confirmed that these criticisms are on target. I'd be startled if, at least in the pricey gizmo's initial incarnation, this is the product that gives e-books iPod-like ubiquity. Still, unless Amazon caves quickly, it will probably be the closest thing to a mainstream e-reader yet. For everything Kindle isn't, it remains the best attempt so far at making e-books make sense. To borrow the famous left-handed compliment that Alan Kay gave the original Macintosh, it's the first e-book reader that's good enough to criticize.
I didn't realize that you had to pay for newspaper, magazine, and blog access on the Kindle.
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Old 11-28-07, 10:34 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by DJLinus
I didn't realize that you had to pay for newspaper, magazine, and blog access on the Kindle.
The pay subscriptions for newspapers and magazines really isn't surprising, as these are designed to replace people's paper subscriptions, not online access. The prices for blogs are likely just enough to cover the cost of transmitting them to the Kindle automatically. As the Slate article points out, the Kindle does have rudimentary web access, so the blog subscriptions are a case of paying for convenience.

I really don't see the DRM being as big an issue as people are playing it out to be. Sure, you can't "buy a Kindle book for a friend," but you can't buy an album download for a friend on iTunes either, although you can get a gift certificate for either.
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Old 12-02-07, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
I really don't see the DRM being as big an issue as people are playing it out to be. Sure, you can't "buy a Kindle book for a friend," but you can't buy an album download for a friend on iTunes either, although you can get a gift certificate for either.
Sure you can, if they're iTunes Plus. There are also other DRM-free music options such as... Amazon.
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