Kurt Vonnegut RIP [merged thread]
04-21-07, 04:03 PM
#101
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Define "major author". The word "major" is an opinion word which is described from the viewpoint of the person. There are many authors who are not known to us, and are considered popular and even "major". But just because we don't know about them, does not imply ignorance. All it should tell you, is they don't know about the author. That's it.
There are also authors who are not well-known, but their writings are highly acclaimed within a small circle of informed readers.
Also, there are different levels of popular authors and implied meanings. For example, my grandmother didn't know who Stephen King was. Never heard of him. My mother, on the other hand, is just the opposite. She loves his work.
So, while you may bring the word "major" into the discussion, we will have to bring another word into the discussion which goes with it, which is "quality". Some authors are popular but the quality of their work is questionable. So, just because you may be familiar with the author does not necessarily mean you're intellectually endowed. It just means you're familiar with the author's work. That's it.
Quality and popularity (i.e., "major") are words which are completely subjective, and we really shouldn't judge people entirely by their familiarity with select authors.
There are also authors who are not well-known, but their writings are highly acclaimed within a small circle of informed readers.
Also, there are different levels of popular authors and implied meanings. For example, my grandmother didn't know who Stephen King was. Never heard of him. My mother, on the other hand, is just the opposite. She loves his work.
So, while you may bring the word "major" into the discussion, we will have to bring another word into the discussion which goes with it, which is "quality". Some authors are popular but the quality of their work is questionable. So, just because you may be familiar with the author does not necessarily mean you're intellectually endowed. It just means you're familiar with the author's work. That's it.
Quality and popularity (i.e., "major") are words which are completely subjective, and we really shouldn't judge people entirely by their familiarity with select authors.
I'm not saying that makes him a "major author", but I'd say that it elevates is significance above the level of mere popularity.
04-21-07, 04:04 PM
#102
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Well, Vonnegut would be somewhat amused by this thread. He liked scenes which brought out the "bad and worse" in people. Because it makes us look more of who we are.
04-21-07, 04:05 PM
#103
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Deftones
Obviously I can't read. I can't. I don't know what Vonnegut's written. I said I knew his name. Not what he's written. So, by that definition, I fall into your absurd little encapsulation of people. Not that I care. I was simply pointing out the fact that your description isn't valid in most of your cases.
Because your reading comprehension is abysmal.
I give up.
04-21-07, 04:06 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by talemyn
I should point out that I would consider myself a moderate Republican, so my opinions on Vonnegut are far from being based in political fanboyism. 
04-21-07, 04:09 PM
#105
Originally Posted by talemyn
Vonnegut has a little more going for him than just popular opinion. Do a quick search on Google for "vonnegut", "reading list" or "syllabus", and "school", "college", or "university" and you'll that there are many schools and teachers/professors that consider him worth reading.
I'm not saying that makes him a "major author", but I'd say that it elevates is significance above the level of mere popularity.
I'm not saying that makes him a "major author", but I'd say that it elevates is significance above the level of mere popularity.
1) Popularity
2) Influence
3) Quality
I've read a few of his works, but I prefer Camus.
04-21-07, 04:10 PM
#106
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by Lord Rick
I guess those 9 books you read were by the author of "My Pet Goat."
Because your reading comprehension is abysmal.
I give up.
Because your reading comprehension is abysmal.
I give up.
Cop out. You know your statement was completely illogical. I just explained several situations where people might not know who he is but are contrary to your statement.
04-21-07, 04:14 PM
#108
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by Lord Rick
No, it wasn't.
That fact has been pointed out to you by others, but you carry on.
That fact has been pointed out to you by others, but you carry on.
04-21-07, 04:31 PM
#109
DVD Talk Limited Edition
"Of course not. But when someone has NO IDEA who a major author is, it tells me that they don't read books, or they didn't pay attention in school, or didn't go to school, and that tells me a lot about that person."
I guess I just don't understand what's confusing about that statement, or why you thought you would be included, since you actually have heard of the guy.
This is like trying to use logic and reason with a Bush supporter.
Next, you'll say "But, but, Clinton wasn't much of a reader."
I guess I just don't understand what's confusing about that statement, or why you thought you would be included, since you actually have heard of the guy.
This is like trying to use logic and reason with a Bush supporter.
Next, you'll say "But, but, Clinton wasn't much of a reader."
04-21-07, 04:38 PM
#110
DVD Talk Hero
I have read almost everything Vonnegut wrote and my opinion is quite close to talemyn's. I'm a pretty big fan (although my politics are little like Vonnegut's). While he is probably not a giant he was no hack. Kilgore Trout was a hack.
Last edited by movielib; 04-21-07 at 04:40 PM.
04-21-07, 04:47 PM
#111
DVD Talk Legend
Poor Kurt....he's barely gotten comfortable in it, but he's already rolling in his grave...although he's also probably laughing hysterically at people calling him a liberal hack
I don't think anyone here is calling him a giant of American literature - but there is absolutely no refuting that he has been an influential and prolific author of some great fiction over four decades of work. Everyone here who's never heard of him should go to their library and check out Galapagos, Cats Cradle, Slaughterhouse Five, or Deadeye Dick.
I don't think anyone here is calling him a giant of American literature - but there is absolutely no refuting that he has been an influential and prolific author of some great fiction over four decades of work. Everyone here who's never heard of him should go to their library and check out Galapagos, Cats Cradle, Slaughterhouse Five, or Deadeye Dick.
04-21-07, 04:48 PM
#112
Moderator
Originally Posted by movielib
Kilgore Trout was a hack.
Why don't you go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut? Why don't you go take a flying fuck at the moooooooon...
04-21-07, 04:58 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
I don't know dick about Vonnegut, except for his cameo in Back to School (where he didn't know the first thing about Vonnegut in the paper in wrote for Mellon about one of his own books ), but I find this thread and the level of snootiness in it highly amusing, even though the guy just died.
), but I find this thread and the level of snootiness in it highly amusing, even though the guy just died.He's an above average later-half of the 20th Century American novelist, IMO.
Now, put him in the first-half of the 20th Century - well.....
04-21-07, 04:58 PM
#115
DVD Talk Legend
Diane: Whoever *did* write this doesn't know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut!
[cut to Thornton's dorm suite]
Thornton Melon: [on the phone] ... and *another* thing, Vonnegut! I'm gonna stop payment on the cheque!
[Kurt tells him off]
Thornton Melon: Fuck me? Hey, Kurt, can you read lips, *fuck you*! Next time I'll call Robert Ludlum!
[hangs up]
This and Footloose were the first things that came to my mind.
[cut to Thornton's dorm suite]
Thornton Melon: [on the phone] ... and *another* thing, Vonnegut! I'm gonna stop payment on the cheque!
[Kurt tells him off]
Thornton Melon: Fuck me? Hey, Kurt, can you read lips, *fuck you*! Next time I'll call Robert Ludlum!
[hangs up]
This and Footloose were the first things that came to my mind.
04-21-07, 05:01 PM
#116
I think this might be a first. A political thread moved to the book forum.
(usually threads that break into fights are tossed into the Politics forum.)
I think this might be a second first, my first post IN the book forum.
(usually threads that break into fights are tossed into the Politics forum.)
I think this might be a second first, my first post IN the book forum.
04-21-07, 05:02 PM
#117
Moderator
Originally Posted by Venusian
author fanboys
04-21-07, 05:08 PM
#118
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by brizz
Poor Kurt....he's barely gotten comfortable in it, but he's already rolling in his grave...although he's also probably laughing hysterically at people calling him a liberal hack
I don't think anyone here is calling him a giant of American literature - but there is absolutely no refuting that he has been an influential and prolific author of some great fiction over four decades of work. Everyone here who's never heard of him should go to their library and check out Galapagos, Cats Cradle, Slaughterhouse Five, or Deadeye Dick.
I don't think anyone here is calling him a giant of American literature - but there is absolutely no refuting that he has been an influential and prolific author of some great fiction over four decades of work. Everyone here who's never heard of him should go to their library and check out Galapagos, Cats Cradle, Slaughterhouse Five, or Deadeye Dick.
. . . or just read on of the many copies of "Harrison Bergeron" floating around the Internet.
04-21-07, 05:10 PM
#119
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Venusian
Since this has turned into a nonpolitical thread (i think, i'm still not sure what the argument is) about author fanboys, i'll move it to book talk, they could use the traffic.
04-21-07, 05:42 PM
#121
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by wendersfan
Why don't you go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut? Why don't you go take a flying fuck at the moooooooon...
Actually, the one Kilgore Trout book published in the real world, Venus on the Half-Shell, was written by Philip Jose Farmer (author of the great sci-fi series, Riverworld) who is no hack.
04-21-07, 07:06 PM
#122
DVD Talk Limited Edition
RIP Kurt Vonnegut Thread.
04-21-07, 09:57 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by movielib
I have read almost everything Vonnegut wrote and my opinion is quite close to talemyn's. I'm a pretty big fan (although my politics are little like Vonnegut's). While he is probably not a giant he was no hack. Kilgore Trout was a hack.
"I only wish Kilgore Trout were here," said Elliot, "so I could shake his hand and tell him that he is the the greatest writer alive today."
-From my all time favorite book
04-21-07, 11:21 PM
#124
Banned by request
I love Vonnegut's work. He was an incredible post-modernist author, especially with work like Breakfast of Champions. My personal favorite is The Sirens of Titan, which is both hilarious and stirring at the same time. He will be sorely missed.
04-21-07, 11:22 PM
#125
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Just saw the FOX news thing on youtube. Man, there are some sensitive people on the 'net and people who are so closed minded, they're going to say anything to try to discredit FOX.
When they said "rich and irrelevant", I took it to mean that he had enough money later in his career, that it was irrelevant what he wrote afterwards. He didn't have to mince words.
And they said that he made no impact until he wrote "Cats Cradle". Hardly insulting.
Some people need to get a life.
When they said "rich and irrelevant", I took it to mean that he had enough money later in his career, that it was irrelevant what he wrote afterwards. He didn't have to mince words.
And they said that he made no impact until he wrote "Cats Cradle". Hardly insulting.
Some people need to get a life.