big e

I'm curently writing a science fiction novel and I was wondering if anyone here would have any idea as to what the average word count should be. I curently have a little over 42,000 words. I've searched on some websites for an answer, but most of them give me conflictings numbers. Any information on this would be appriciated.

Joe Molotov

You definiately want to trim it down enough to have something left over for the potential 11-volume epic saga.

maxfisher

The simple and most true answer is that it should be however much you need to tell your story. I think that's true, regardless of the genre or style of writing.

That said, I wrote around 90% of a novel in college and it was something like 115,000 words, which came out to around 200 pages, single-spaced. At one point, I figured out how many pages it would be if it was published and it was something like 500. It wasn't a sci-fi novel, so I'm not sure if that's any help whatsoever.

Breakfast with Girls

50,000 is the absolute minimum for a book to be considered a standard novel. On the other hand, don't pad just for the sake of length. HG Wells preferred short novels, and The Time Machine and War of the Worlds are classics in the genre. Nowadays, the vast majority of science fiction (and especially fantasy) novels could benefit greatly from a more aggressive editor.

Cathepsin

From the SFWA Faq :

The SFWA consider a to be 40000 words or more; a novella 17500 to 39999; a novelette 7500 to 17499; and a short story 7499 or fewer words.

big e

Thanks for the info so far. Has anyone here ever had a novel published before?

mgbfan

42,000 words isn't a novel, it's a novella. Triple that and you'll be in a more suitable novel range.

Of course, a writer should always cover a story with exactly as many words as it takes. If your story took 42,000 words, than that's how long it is. It's not a novel. Which is fine. There are plenty of places to publish novellas (provided they're well conceived, well written, and offer something original).

mgbfan

Never a novel (as I've never written one), but dozens of short stories. Tried to novelize one of the shorts I published when I was just out of college, but I'd get to about 20,000 words and decide it was falling apart, and I'd start over. Never could get over that hump, and in time, I got a job as an editor. Spending your days editing and writing for a living kind of sucks the ambition to write a novel right out of you.

djmont

100,000 is a good number to shoot for. Most genre fiction comes in at around 90,000 - 110,000 words. 80,000 is probably the minimum to be taken seriously by an agent or editor.

Groucho

50,000 is the minimum for NanoWrimo.

Shannon Nutt

Remember Big e - "longer" doesn't necessarily equate "better". [Don't tell that to any DVD Talk reviewers though. ]

I swear half the stuff I read these days needs about 100 pages trimmed. But that's more of the editor's fault than the novelist (unless the novelist is also the editor). The same is true of most media. I think TV is really the only place where you don't have much of a choice (having to tell a story in 48-minutes...or whatever the time period is these days - gets shorter every year!).

Josh-da-man

The "ballpark" novel is around 100,000 words.

Some will have less. Some (esp. if it's from a "name" novelist) may have upwards of 200,000 words.

As to how big the "published" book would be, much of that depends of things like spacing, size of the type, size of the margins, etc. Just taking a 100,000 word novel, it could be published as a somewhat small volume with a small typeface, tight margins and spacing. It could also be expanded into a monster volume with larger typeface, wider margins, and wider spacing.

big e

Ok, ignore the 42,000, I don't know where I got that number from, but I just checked again and this time I have almost 53,000 words.

djmont

Keep it up big e -- you're half way there! This can be the point at which it really gets tough, so keep pushing through. You'll make it.

mgbfan

I couldn't disagree more. If the story is done, it's done. Try to publish it as a novella.

djmont

Unless I missed something, mgb, he never said it was done. Just how many words he had.

mgbfan

Yeah, I guess he didn't. I can't see why he'd be even worrying about a word count unless he was through it, though. The count doesn't mean a thing until the story is told.

My advice stands, either way. Write the story until its told. When you're done, that's how long it is. Any attempt to pad words is going only going to weaken the prose.

djmont

In a perfect world, I'd agree that the word count shouldn't matter. But if you're hoping to sell the book and get it published, it matters a lot.

I had a conversation recently with a thriller author (a NYTimes bestseller) who was telling me about his next novel, which he'd just finished. He said it came in at around 85,000 words -- shorter than his previous books, which were all around 100,000. He knew the publisher would want him to beef it up a little to make it the same length as the others, so he added some more material. I doubt it weakened it -- in fact, he said his editor liked the new stuff the best.

Writing is an art, but publishing is a business. If you don't want to be part of the business, you just leave the manuscript in the drawer. But what fun would that be?

mgbfan

I couldn't disagree more. There's a place to publish a story of almost any length, if it's quality work. Everybody and his brother fancies himself a novelist. Perhaps a skilled author can get away with padding. A novice can't.

I've read slush for fiction magazines. 99% of the folks who imagine themselves to be writers are just sad. Of the 1% who actually have some talent, most of them can't afford to start throwing in padding. A story has to be tight and well-paced. Padding destroys that. If this guy is one of those with some talent (no way to know that either way), then his best odds of getting published are to tell a tight story. Whether it's a book that's published or a novella, his chances are best if the story is compact and moves along. If ever it gets bogged down, whomever is reading the slush is likely to put it down and move on to the next one. A novice doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. He has to keep the story moving at all times. He can't lose his reader even for a little while like an established author can.

djmont

I'm not as familiar with the science fiction market, so perhaps it's different there... but in mystery/thriller/suspense fiction there essentially is NO market for novellas. So it might be a pleasing academic exercise to write one, but otherwise I wouldn't suggest anyone do it. (Unless, of course, you're writing simply for the pleasure of doing so, in which case you should do whatever the hell you want and not listen to anyone else.)

I also don't think it's necessarily "padding" to expand the first draft of a story. Many authors have to add to drafts, just as many have to cut. Whether or not the final product is any good depends on the writer's skill and the inherent merits of the story. I think it's overly simplistic to view it as a matter of a story having some predetermined inherent length.

mgbfan

I never said anything of the sort. What I said was that adding words for the sake of adding words is almost always a bad idea.

tonyc3742

Wouldn't it be easier for a new writer to sell/place a novella or short story versus a novel, especially in the science fiction realm? [I'm assuming the OP is a new writer, or at least new to SF writing]. While I have read many science fiction novels, I think I prefer novellas or short stories. But yeah, don't add words just to stretch it out--the reader can usually tell when that occurs. On the other hand, 'fleshing it out' can be justified. But many of the most influential SF authors did write very successful 'short novels' [Kornbluth, Pohl, even some of Heinlein's work].
I think a couple printings of Piers Anthony's "But What of Earth" had basically a full-length author commentary where he discussed both his writing process and the editing process; that might be an interesting read. And I believe my copy of the Bachman Books, a couple of which could possibly be labeled science fiction, has Stephen King discussing those stories and the difference between a novel and a novella.

djmont

I apologize for mischaracterizing what you wrote. I obviously read into your statements something that you didn't intend.

djmont

You'd think that would be easier... but given how few paying markets there are for short stories, a newbie might have better luck selling a novel, as strange as that sounds. The way publishing works these days, it's actually easier in many cases for a brand-new author to sell a novel than it is for a previously-published novelist (assuming the latter didn't have significant sales).

Now, if you're looking to publish in an online magazine, for example, that would definitely be easier. There are plenty of unpaid markets that are very receptive to new writers. As for novellas, though, I think there's very little chance an unknown writer can sell one. Publishers just don't want 'em.

mgbfan

That's using the word "publish" pretty loosely.