Scarecrow

Hi gang,

On recommendations here I read Robin Hobb's 'Farseer' books fairly recently. I enjoyed them quite a bit & while not my favorite series all time or anything I'd rank them quite highly (just not quite as high as Martin or Erikson). I just picked up the three books in her 'Tawny Man' series, but wondered if I should read the 'Live Ship' books before them? I know they are in the same world, but they don't appear to take place with the same characters or anything. I'd hate to read them later on & find out some characters from the "Farseer' books are in them so thought I'd better ask.

Anyone read her new book yet?


On another note I wonder if there is another series that would be similar in style to either "A Song of Fire & Ice" by George RR Martin or the Malazan books by Steven Erikson. These are two of my favorite series all time. I've read a fair amount of fantasy, but most of it isn't as good as these guys. I'd love a Sci-Fi series written this way. A friend said I should read the Wheel of Time books, but every time I've tried I just can't do it. The furthest I've gotten is about 1/3 through book 2. I guess they're just not for me.

Thanks for any suggestions.

brainee

I really like Robin Hobb and George RR Martin (it's been recommended to me, but I haven't tackled Erikson yet). I have all the Tawny Man books, but I haven't started reading them yet, so I can't help you on that count. But, have you read the "Assassin" trilogy? The Tawny Man is the direct sequel to that trilogy, and I presume major plot elements will be spoiled if you read Tawny Man first.

Have you ever read Tad Williams? He has 2 big 4-volume series that are completed. "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" is fantasy -- kind of a standard fantasy story (boy thrust into world-saving role to defeat big bad evil), but I really like the characters and writing style. "Otherworld" is more a Matrix-like sci-fi series. I really enjoyed those series and his stand-alone books. Another sci-fi series that would recommended (if you haven't read it yet) is Dan Simmons' "Hyperion" -- similar to Hobb and Martin in that they epic stories, but with strong characters, a real emotional resonance, and an adult tone.

Scarecrow

Yes, I've read it. That's what I meant by her 'Farseer' books. The covers say it's the "Farseer Trilogy".

I do have Tad Williams 'Otherworld', but haven't read it yet. Haven't seen any of his Fantasy stuff.

After reading Martin & Erikson it's been harder for me to find Fantasy I like. I read the Dragon Crown War cycle by Michael Stackpole last year. It was OK, but could have been better. I've got all of Glen Cook's 'Black Company' books & Donaldson's 'Thomas Covenant' books that I haven't read yet. Just trying to decide what comes next. I may just re-read Martin's first three quick before the 4th book comes out, not sure.

Anyone like Terry Brooks? I've read the original Shannara trilogy & the Heritage of Shannara books. They were ok. Some I like well enough, but some just seemed a Tolkien rehash. I've got the Voyage of the Jerle Shannara books. I read the first one when it came out, but can't remember much about it. I also have the High Druid of Shannara books. How are his later books? Is it just more "popcorn" fantasy? For some reason I'm just not in the mood for that right now.

Cathepsin

I've read plenty of good things about R. Scott Baaker's The Prince of Nothing series. Book one, The Darkness That Comes Before, is out in trade paperback in the US. It's purported to be most similar to Erikson.

JasonF

Read Liveship before Tawny Man. Events in Liveship are touched on tangentially in Tawny Man.

I'll second the recommendation for Tad Williams, and also recommend that if you like Erikson and Martin, you'll probably like Glen Cook as well.

My standard advice for anybody who finds themselves in the situation you're in is to pick up either (or both) of Robert Silverberg's Legends anthologies. You'll get a bunch of short stories set in various fantasy worlds (including two Martin stories set in the world of Song of Ice and Fire and one Hobb story set in the world of the Liveship Traders). It's a good way to sample different writing styles and settings.

brainee

It sounds like we have similar book buying and reading strategies -- buy tons of books without planning on the time to read them Haunting used book stores really does that to me -- you see stuff at a certain price and just can't help yourself.

That's kind of an unplanned drawback of authors as good as Martin -- they're so good, that other things don't seem to measure up. And generic Tolkien rips just don't cut it anymore. I'm getting into more Fantasy now after mostly reading horror/thrillers/sci-fi. But it's hard because in the bookstore they all look the same, and often are very long (so there's more to lose if you don't like something).

Here's another suggestion I thought of: China Mieville's "Bas Lag" (or something like that) series. Like Hobb's trilogies, they're set in the same world but with tangential references to things that happened in previous books. Very "literate" fantasy (which some find too difficult to read), but I loved them.

Scarecrow

I'll look into it, thanks.


Sounds like good advice. I'll keep an eye out for them when I'm shopping tomorrow. Thanks

Scarecrow

That's me, to some extent anyway. In the clearance section of our local 1/2 Price books they'll often have $1-$2 hardcovers & so sometimes if it sounds decent it finds it's way to my house. Of course that's on top of books they might have that I'm actually looking for.

I look at it like my DVD collection. I've got something to suit whatever mood I may be in. Now I just need to get myself to thin out my shelves a bit, I'm running out of room.

johnnysd

Have you read the "Wheel of Time" or are you one of the Martin fans that hates Jordan. Wheel of Time is still the best fantasy series I have read, though Martins series is excellent

Scarecrow

I don't hate Jordan, just don't care for him all that much. I've read the first book & when I finally got through it I thought it was ok, but I must have quit on it half a dozen times before I finally got all the way through it. I've read about a third of the 2nd book, but it couldn't hold my attention either. There's not the amount of character development I'd like & I've found what I've read so far pretty predictable. It seems to be the same formula fantasy that so many authors are pumping out, at least so far. Someday I'll probably try the series again, but at this point I have no immediate plans. For now I'd say it's about 3 stars out of 5 for me (average at best).

JasonF, I checked out the Dunk & Egg stories in Legends & Legends II. They were fun. I'll have to check out some of the other stories in them later. Thanks

I can't wait for the end of the month to get here & for my copy of "A Feast for Crows" to get here from the UK. Can't wait for Erikson's new one in February too.

madara

You got some good recommendations there scarecrow. Being one of the biggest Terry Brooks fans I can safely say you would not like his latest books in least with your tastes. They are as opposite from Erickson and Martin as you can get, light fantasy with focus on the actual journey, a sense of adventure and relationships with only handful of characters. No blood and guts, sex and epic wars, especially in the last two series. They also feel quite rushed to meet the every year deadline and are not as well flushed out as past ones.
Scott Baaker is likely your best bet, I'm told its very dark and epic, most of the martin crowd seem to dig it.

GreenMonkey

Hobb is my favorite author now. When I was younger (15-16) I didn't like the ending of the Farseer trilogy, but I find now that I am older with better taste, the ending was a great bittersweet kind of ending, and Hobb became my favorite author.

Hobb's strength is in the strong characterization. The only other writer with anywhere near such strong characterization is George RR Martin

- or 1 specific trilogy:

The best 2nd choice for a big Farseer fan I can come up with is Raymond Feist's and Janny Wurt's Empire trilogy. But you should start with Magician.

Magician is split into 2 as paperback, Apprentice & Master, or you can get the Barnes and Noble preferred edition hardcover. It may feel a bit Tolkien-ish (especially the elves/dwarves) - he wrote it in the 70s when the Tolkien influence was strong. But the conflict is really between 2 worlds rather than a big bad evil. Decent book, no Hobb, but Empire is close to Hobb.

But then read 1. Daughter, 2. Servant and 3. Mistress of the Empire. My personal 2nd favorite trilogy, and VERY VERY character/intrigue driven - like the Farseer trilogy.

Magician:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...60741778&itm=1

First book of the wonderful Empire trilogy:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books


If you enjoy those, the Serpentwar trilogy is VERY good as well, but you would probably have to read through some lesser sequels first to get to them.


PS BTW Read the Liveship trilogy first. You can read Tawny Man without it but it's better with. Liveship is not as good as Farseer or Tawny Man, though.

PSS On Robert Jordan. Typical, bland, poorly characterized, badly written action scenes, and doesn't seem to know where his story is going (and going on and on and on) to. I read the first 5 WoT but I'll be damned if I can tell you what happens after book 2 or so. Subpar and highly overrated. WoT = 6/10 at best.

And this is from someone that enjoys Terry Brooks, R.A. Salvatore, and other authors people like to bash.
At least they can write a decent story, and Salvatore is the master of writing awesome action/battle scenes. Jordan should take some lessons from Salvatore on writing action (because he doesn't, he writes junk something like 'Dance of the Flying Duck defeats Canoe going Down the River')

johnnysd

I am currently slogging through the Farseer trilogy now. I would say it is just OK. Contrary to your opinion, I find the characterizations very shallow and the story somewhat dull. I will finish the trilogy but I am not sure I will read more Hobb



PSS On Robert Jordan. Typical, bland, poorly characterized, badly written action scenes, and doesn't seem to know where his story is going (and going on and on and on) to. I read the first 5 WoT but I'll be damned if I can tell you what happens after book 2 or so. Subpar and highly overrated. WoT = 6/10 at best.
And this is from someone that enjoys Terry Brooks, R.A. Salvatore, and other authors people like to bash.
At least they can write a decent story, and Salvatore is the master of writing awesome action/battle scenes. Jordan should take some lessons from Salvatore on writing action (because he doesn't, he writes junk something like 'Dance of the Flying Duck defeats Canoe going Down the River')[/QUOTE]


Could not disagree with your characterization of Jordan more. Jordan's characters are multi-dimensional and intersting (not as multi-dimensional as Martin though) However, I don't think ANYONE writes action scenes as well as Jordan. They are incredible, especially the end of The Great Hunt and the trolloc chase from Baerlon and escape from Shadar Logoth. The last couple Wheel of Time books were not quite as good, but the first 6 books are the best fantasy I have ever read.

To each his own I guess. It just seems to be in vogue to knock Jordan lately.

GreenMonkey

Here's a good page that has kind of a mocking tone (and he gets a lot of hate mail). I sort of agree with him at points.

http://www.members.tripod.com/~wotiscrap/

Not saying Jordan is terrible. Just an average run-of-the-mill fantasy Tolkien clone - on par with, say, the Sword of Shannara. Except Terry Brooks only aped LOTR for one book in 1977 when there was no other real fantasy, and went on for 700 pages, while Jordan has chucked out thousands of meandering pages in his modern LOTR-wannabe

After you've read about a thousand Fantasy books or so like me you tend to notice the uninspired LOTR clones

BTW I really enjoyed the Tad Williams short Otherworld story in the Legends II anthology. I'm going to read the Otherworld stuff when I get a chance.


Lastly...

And people here mock the Book Forum! See, all we need is some good controversy to liven things up!

johnnysd

The Wheel of Time is only really like LOTR for the first 69 pages and that is intentional. I find nothing run of the mill about it. Have you even read it?

GreenMonkey

The parellels/influences are pretty obvious - just like the Sword of Shannara is very similiar. WoT is just as bad, if not worse. I mean, The Blight practically = Mordor, for example. Lan is awfully similiar to Aragorn in appearance, attitude, etc. And I'm not the only one to think so (try reading the Amazon.com reviews).

If you think it's the greatest thing ever written, fine. Jordan's works are popular indeed. But remember that the movie "National Treasure" was also wildly popular.

In the same line of thought, the world also thinks Dan Brown is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I was assigned to read "Angels and Demons" for my intro to history class (subject was the usefulness and effect of history in fiction).
What a mindless, predictable action-movie cliche of a book. Also including plenty of innacurate historical assumptions & statements to make the story work, and enough terribly unlikely conspiracy stuff to make Mulder of X-Files fame look like a reasonable, logical scientist. Some stuff, like seeing a tweed-wearing professor sneak up and defeat an assassin, made me laugh out loud - or the improbable "jump out of helicopter" scene. LOL.

I firmly plop Robert Jordan in with the Tom Clancys and Dan Browns of the book industry. Sorry if you disagree. I've got 6 WoT books on my shelf, (I think I read the first 4-5). I will give them another shot and finish up the series whenever he finally finishes writing the bloated thing.


Hobb vs Jordan is like
which is better, Babylon 5 or Stargate SG-1. Totally different beasts despite them both being "sci-fi". And neither side is going to understand the other.

RonG617

Anyone into Eddings or Dennis L. McKiernan?

gusamo

I have read theThe Darkness that Comes Before. It is complicated and deep like Erikson, but it has very strange words. It has it's own language and it really has a tendency to slow down the reader.

Aaron Campagnone

I loved all of McKiernans stuff. The only thing I have not read (at least once) is his latest (last?) novel not set in MIthgar.
Yes, the original trilogy is almost a scene for scene tolken copy, but after that, there is some great epic stories there. Things in totaly unrelated books have bearing on other books events. I used to have a chronological order for the books, and re-read them in that order and it was great.

MrKen

I just read the Hobb stuff a few months ago. Skipped the LiveShip books and went straight to Tawny man, which was great. I'll go back to the LiveShip books after I catch up on the other books I have stacked up.

I don't think anyone mentioned Terry Goodkind in this thread. Not the best by any means, but the first couple are pretty good. The last 4 or 5 are hit and miss. They are somewhat character driven, though not to the degree of Hobb's stuff.

I agree with the Williams reccomendation. I haven't finished Otherworld, because I read the first two when the came out, and while I bought the last two upon release, I now have to read the first two again to get back into it. The Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series was very good.

Anyway, I remember liking Feist a whole lot, so I second that as well.

JasonF

If you like insanely stupid characters and pointless plot digressions into sadomasochism, you'll love the Sword of Truth!

Xander

I liked Terry Goodkind's early stuff. He's a little too pontifical now for my tastes, though I keep reading. The last one, Chainfire, was more entertaining for me then the few before it. I wish he'd stop introducing new characters and just concentrate on developing the ones he's got.

dcswirl

Likewise, I get really turned off when he does that. I bailed on that series after the Temple of the Winds. I may go back to it, but I doubt it.

Xander

I liked Temple of the Winds. It got WAY worse after that. Soul of the Fire, Faith of the Fallen, Pillars of Creation and Naked Empire are all pretty heavy-handed. I did like the story of Faith of the Fallen, though. Actually, the stories of all of them weren't that bad, it was just all of the moralization and pontificating that he hits you over the head with in each book that really makes me want to put the books down. If he would take that out, I would like them better. And he seemed to do that less in the latest one, so that made me like it more.

GreenMonkey

BTW someone posted this author recommendation engine somewhere...I found it to be not half bad....

http://www.literature-map.com/