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A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

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A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Old 01-14-14, 08:05 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Finally finished DwD last night! On the one hand, I'm glad to finally be at a point where I can freely roam the internet without having to "worry" about spoilers, on the other hand I'm in limbo now with most of you in that I know I'll likely be waiting years to read the next one. I had read here and other places about the last two books being considerably less engaging and entertaining to read (and I can't disagree there), but there was a lot of things I liked in them too. I feel like I will appreciate them more when I reread them eventually, likely before the release of the next one. I just have to hope that Martin is willing (and able) to crescendo the story from here. Personally, I felt that many, but not all, of the storylines really ended on a high note, and I'm hoping he picks them up and just runs with them.
Old 01-15-14, 11:49 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by beesonosu
Finally finished DwD last night! On the one hand, I'm glad to finally be at a point where I can freely roam the internet without having to "worry" about spoilers, on the other hand I'm in limbo now with most of you in that I know I'll likely be waiting years to read the next one. I had read here and other places about the last two books being considerably less engaging and entertaining to read (and I can't disagree there), but there was a lot of things I liked in them too. I feel like I will appreciate them more when I reread them eventually, likely before the release of the next one. I just have to hope that Martin is willing (and able) to crescendo the story from here. Personally, I felt that many, but not all, of the storylines really ended on a high note, and I'm hoping he picks them up and just runs with them.
I think the general feel is that it really could have been one tight but long book as originally planned but became two very long and very bloated books without much forward momentum. There are great elements to them, but a lot of padding.
Old 01-16-14, 08:00 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

For anybody disappointed in the last book or interested in the series in general, you should read this blog:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/...d-the-locusts/

It's an in-depth analysis of the character arcs of Dany, Jon, and Tyrion in A Dance with Dragons. I really enjoyed the book but reading that blog has made me appreciate it even more. It points out a lot of the subtlety in George's writing, and plot lines that you thought were obvious and meandering are actually quite complex and have a lot more going on under the surface. It completely changed my perception about some of the plot developments, and I'm now convinced that ADWD has the best character development of the series.
Old 01-20-14, 07:59 AM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
For anybody disappointed in the last book or interested in the series in general, you should read this blog:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/...d-the-locusts/

It's an in-depth analysis of the character arcs of Dany, Jon, and Tyrion in A Dance with Dragons. I really enjoyed the book but reading that blog has made me appreciate it even more. It points out a lot of the subtlety in George's writing, and plot lines that you thought were obvious and meandering are actually quite complex and have a lot more going on under the surface. It completely changed my perception about some of the plot developments, and I'm now convinced that ADWD has the best character development of the series.
I personally don't get the crankiness about Feast and Dance. I think the only problem is the way they were released - rolling through all of Fest without a big handful of the best characters made it harder - normally there's a bit of Starks or whatever to break up the nasty scheming Lannisters and other such characters - that makes it harder to read.

Dance simply has a LOT of new characters to keep track of what's going on - in a way trying to replicate some of what was going on in book 1 in that respect, kind of like the blogger's essay you posted points out. That makes it a tough read somewhat, but IMO Martin does it a lot better than others (I'm currently slowly reading Erikson's Malazan series, I'm on book 2 after reading book 1 twice to make sort of sense of it, and it makes Martin's mess of characters look well-done in comparison).
Old 01-20-14, 12:36 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
I personally don't get the crankiness about Feast and Dance. I think the only problem is the way they were released - rolling through all of Fest without a big handful of the best characters made it harder - normally there's a bit of Starks or whatever to break up the nasty scheming Lannisters and other such characters - that makes it harder to read.

Dance simply has a LOT of new characters to keep track of what's going on - in a way trying to replicate some of what was going on in book 1 in that respect, kind of like the blogger's essay you posted points out. That makes it a tough read somewhat, but IMO Martin does it a lot better than others (I'm currently slowly reading Erikson's Malazan series, I'm on book 2 after reading book 1 twice to make sort of sense of it, and it makes Martin's mess of characters look well-done in comparison).
I agree, I think the writing is on par with the previous books but the geographical separation makes them difficult. It kind of sucked not knowing what was going on with characters like Jon Snow. I think all of the books introduce new characters that are hard to follow, I think it's all meant to be overwhelming, and the existence of all of the peripheral characters helps make it feel like a real world that is alive. Essos is supposed to feel alien and confusing.

I also had trouble following the Blackfyre stuff, GRRM referenced them and the Dance of Dragons rebellion a lot and I was a bit lost. A lot of readers have said that AFFC and ADWD are pointless and nothing happens, but I think they're just frustrated that the story isn't going in the predictable direction they had hoped. Dany's Meereen plot in book 5 is actually one of my favorite storylines in the entire series.
Old 01-20-14, 12:47 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

If GRRM is able to satisfactorily resolve the additional characters and plot lines presented in AFFC and ADWD in the next two or three books then I will be pleasantly surprised but to quote Bilbo Baggins "(it) feel(s) thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread" at this point.
Old 01-20-14, 11:12 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by wishbone
If GRRM is able to satisfactorily resolve the additional characters and plot lines presented in AFFC and ADWD in the next two or three books then I will be pleasantly surprised but to quote Bilbo Baggins "(it) feel(s) thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread" at this point.
Actually I think he is well positioned for the push to the end. Apparently, and I will not spoil it, some big loose ends are addressed in the first few chapters.
Old 01-21-14, 10:40 AM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I'm starting to dislike Dany. I'm over 200 pages into Dragons and finished the chapter where she
Spoiler:
denies Xaro's offer of 13 ships in order to head back to Westeros. She's so stubborn and refuses or disregards anyone's counsel.


I wouldn't be upset if GRRM killed her off.
Old 01-21-14, 10:56 AM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

You're definitely not alone. Many people don't like her because her story has gone nowhere in the last three or four books.
Old 01-23-14, 02:31 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
For anybody disappointed in the last book or interested in the series in general, you should read this blog:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/...d-the-locusts/
Thanks for the link. That's a great read and sheds a lot of light on Martin's possible motivations. I found it to be very interesting
Old 01-27-14, 05:19 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by lysander
Thanks for the link. That's a great read and sheds a lot of light on Martin's possible motivations. I found it to be very interesting
No problem, I did too.
Old 01-27-14, 09:07 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

And again I came into the thread with minor hopes there was an announce date for the new book. Silly me.
Old 01-27-14, 11:44 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by Dr. DVD
And again I came into the thread with minor hopes there was an announce date for the new book. Silly me.
I remember the days when people said that GRRM would never be anything like Jordan with release dates....too bad that turned out to be off the mark.
Old 01-28-14, 09:51 AM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

has there been any hint whatsoever as to a possible release? Is 2015 at least likely?
Old 01-28-14, 10:42 AM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

GRRM's editor says it's years away:

Old 01-28-14, 02:31 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

The HBO series will cover A Dance with Dragons before Winds of Winter comes out. Bank on it.
Old 01-28-14, 02:37 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
The HBO series will cover A Dance with Dragons before Winds of Winter comes out. Bank on it.
I wouldn't be surprised if they combine/stretch Feast and Dance into 4-5 seasons. I'd say that would be enough time for him to finish but I still remember the page at the end of the first edition of Feast where he said Dance would be the next summer, I think. His estimation was off by about 4 years.
Old 01-28-14, 02:41 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

There's a good chance the show will be done with AFFC/ADWD by the end of season 5. From the trailer you can tell that they are all ready delving into ADWD material for Bran, Dany, and Theon. I think it's becoming very clear that the show will finish the story before George does.
Old 01-28-14, 06:18 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

HBO would love it if they have to finish the show before Martin. That would make them the only medium by which fans get their Westeros fix.
Old 01-28-14, 07:26 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
There's a good chance the show will be done with AFFC/ADWD by the end of season 5. From the trailer you can tell that they are all ready delving into ADWD material for Bran, Dany, and Theon. I think it's becoming very clear that the show will finish the story before George does.
I think the series is going to start deviating from the books more and more as it goes on. They've already done this a bit when they
Spoiler:
gave Gendry Edric Storm's story arc
and it also looks like they're go be taking
Spoiler:
Asha/Yara's
storyline in a different or expanded direction.

I do wonder if, instead of bringing all of the new characters from the later books, they're going to be giving existing characters their storylines. I think that the material through A Storm of Swords will play out mostly like it did in the books, but once they get into A Feast for Crows and beyond, I think we might some bigger deviations from the source material.

It would be weird if the big cliffhanger from the end of A Dance with Dragons
Spoiler:
ie, what happens to Jon Snow
is resolved on the TV series before the novels come out.
Old 01-29-14, 12:08 AM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I think the series is going to start deviating from the books more and more as it goes on. They've already done this a bit when they
Spoiler:
gave Gendry Edric Storm's story arc
and it also looks like they're go be taking
Spoiler:
Asha/Yara's
storyline in a different or expanded direction.

I do wonder if, instead of bringing all of the new characters from the later books, they're going to be giving existing characters their storylines. I think that the material through A Storm of Swords will play out mostly like it did in the books, but once they get into A Feast for Crows and beyond, I think we might some bigger deviations from the source material.

It would be weird if the big cliffhanger from the end of A Dance with Dragons
Spoiler:
ie, what happens to Jon Snow
is resolved on the TV series before the novels come out.
Spoiler:
I think the switch to Gendry was logical and did not change the main events of the book that needed it to happen

Ashas stroyline will likely play out pretty much the same just accelerated and we will likely get the Kingsmoot next year without her there. Again not a big deviation

I suspect GRRM will increase the rate of his writing but the series may well catch up and pass the books. Something tells me that GRRM would be horrified by that and when he wants to he can write VERY fast, ie he could write the last 2 books in 2 years if he felt motivated to and stopped attending every convention in the known universe and not writing during football season.
Old 02-12-14, 11:05 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

No surprise but GRRM's UK publisher said on twitter that there's no chance that WoW is published this year.
Old 02-12-14, 11:10 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by MrX
No surprise but GRRM's UK publisher said on twitter that there's no chance that WoW is published this year.
To be honest they have no way to know that. The publisher denying it is useless. Very unlikely, but if GRRM gets in a big spurt they will publish it 3 or 4 months after he gives them the manuscript.
Old 02-13-14, 10:03 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by johnnysd
To be honest they have no way to know that. The publisher denying it is useless. Very unlikely, but if GRRM gets in a big spurt they will publish it 3 or 4 months after he gives them the manuscript.
Like they said, there's no chance it will be published this year.
Old 02-13-14, 10:11 PM
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Like they said, there's no chance it will be published this year.
Not sure your point.

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