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Question about Harry Potter 3: Azkaban

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Question about Harry Potter 3: Azkaban

Old 06-27-04, 11:38 PM
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Question about Harry Potter 3: Azkaban

So I just finished reading this...again.

There's something bothering me. Hermione mentions that to get the Time Turner, McGonagall had to clear it with the Ministry of Magic. So there would be plenty of people that knew she had it (even the teachers right, including Snape?). Am I to assume, that with the status of Black and the mysterious nature of his dissapearance from Hogwarts, the Ministry and the school itself wouldn't have made any attempt at investigating how it happened? As important as this was to Snape and Fudge, I cannot believe they would just shrug their shoulders and carry on.

Not to mention, if Time Turners exist, why wouldn't Snape just borrow one and go back to see how Black escaped?

Bad storytelling? Or am I missing something...
Old 06-28-04, 12:40 PM
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Yea, the time turner aspect of the story always bothered me. It allows too many what if theories, because essentially Rowling made Hermione the most powerful witch alive while she had the time turner, because she could undo anything short of her death.
Old 06-28-04, 01:58 PM
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Didn't she give back the Time Turner at the end. I'm sure there were rules she was following using it (up until the jail break usage) and you know how Hermione is about breaking rules.

Maybe the time turner is such a little known device that only a few people knew about it.

Yes it opens up tons of plot holes but you'd never enjoy the books if you didn't over look them.
Old 06-28-04, 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by resinrats


Yes it opens up tons of plot holes but you'd never enjoy the books if you didn't over look them.
I disagree. I think I would enjoy them much more if the plot holes didn't exist.

And I do over look plot holes all the time. Usually they are easy to over look, but this one is just too much.

As was already mentioned, the existence of a "time turner" pretty much renders the whole series ridiculous. There is nothing out of the realm of possibility with it.

If Dumbledoor approved it's use for saving Sirius, I can't imagine it wouldn't have been used countless other times to save people that must have been just as important if not more so than him.
Old 06-28-04, 04:24 PM
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I don't remember all the details, but she only used it for short trips back. Maybe that is one limitation on it? It may not go too far back, which would explain why these aren't used in more situations. Also, it appears you must relive the time travelled, so going too far back would not be desirable and would put a person at far greater risk to screw something up.
Old 06-28-04, 08:33 PM
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I was always under the impression that the Time Turner is a dangerous magical object that few have access to. In book 5, there is mention of the fact that time turners are kept in the Department of Mysteries.

I think the reason there was no investigation into its use by Hermione is because there was no evidence of its use. Dumbledore made it clear to Hermione that they must not be seen and must be back in the hospital wing by the time he locked the door.

It was all about who Fudge believed. Even if Snape knew Hermione had a Time Turner, it does not mean that he would automatically think she had used it. The only things that were changed were saving Buckbeak and Harry using the Patronus charm. They broke Sirius out just when no one was looking. As Sirius had previously escaped from the inescapable prison of Azkaban, it doesn't strike me as odd that Fudge would believe the kids did it. He didn't even believe their story that Sirius was innocent to begin with. Snape just looked like a raving lunatic to Fudge.

Heck, maybe Snape figured it out later and it only pissed him off more. Had Snape brought it up to Fudge, I doubt he would have believed Snape. Remember, in book 3 Fudge loved Harry and would not have believed him capable of wrongdoing.

Last edited by sherm42; 06-28-04 at 08:35 PM.
Old 06-28-04, 10:15 PM
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None of that explains why Snape or Fudge or anyone wouldn't have just taken the time turner and gone back and hid by the tower holding Sirius to see how he broke out so they could have an idea how to find him.

You seriously expect me to believe that they'll let Hermione use it to go to class but the highest wizards wouldn't use it to solve murder mysteries and catch escaped convicts?

I don't think so...
Old 06-29-04, 12:50 AM
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I just want to add that I realize I'm probably thinking about this too much and it's obviously one of those things you just have to let go of, and I'm going to try to forget about it.
Old 06-29-04, 08:03 AM
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The biggest plot hole in book3 is when Peter Pettigrew shows up on the Marauder's Map while he is still Scabbers. If that is the case, why didn't Fred&George notice him on the map for as long as Ron has been going to Hogwarts! Scabbers has been living in Gryffindor the entire time Ron's been going there!

The other plot hole is Lupin transforming due to the moon. At the big climax, he doesn't transform until the clouds part and he can actually see the moon. If you have to see the moon to transform, then why would you need to go to the Shrieking Shack at all? He could just chill in the Hogwarts basement and would never transform.

You gotta pick one: Either he transforms every single month regardless of whether or not he sees the moon, or he only transforms if moonlight shines on him.
Old 06-29-04, 01:09 PM
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I doubt F&G ever cared about seeing peter on the map- they didn't know who he was and it probably didn't mean anything to him. When they used the map they probably weren't looking for Ron or Percy (unless they were trying to avoid Percy).

The stuff with Lupin is odd- maybe the moon just wasn't completely full until that moment.

To the original question: I doubt that anyone who didn't have to know that Hermione had a time turner would have known- so I'm guessing that Snape had no idea. Probably only McGonnagall and Dumbledore and very few people at the ministry knew she had it.

Snape can't use one to go back and see how he escaped because he didn't do that. Dumbledore already knew that Buckbeak escaped and I'm pretty sure he already knew who had freed him so all he did was ask the kids to do something they had already done (remember his attitude toward the lack of buckbeak at Hagrid's hut).
The time travel thing gets messy, but this seems as logical as possible. They didn't change anything because there is no scenerio where they didn't go back and free buckbeak and sirius. You can't undo anything with a time turner- if that was the case then they could have all had a good night's sleep and been well rested before going to save sirius.

I agree that it probably isn't used to go very far back- if for no other reason than that it would take a lot of turns to go very far back (increases the chances for making a mistake) in addition to having to relive all that time.

I'm not a fan of time travel as a plot device, but I think it did ok here.
Old 06-29-04, 01:58 PM
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Time travel in general always leads to plot holes. I agree with hotaru_san about Peter... Fred and George probably didn't even notice, because to them it would just be another random person. I'm sure they only paid attention to the names of the professors.
Old 06-30-04, 11:15 AM
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Well yea, except that, since Scabbers slept in the same bed as Ron, it would show Peter Pettigrew and Ron sharing a bed everynight...
Old 06-30-04, 02:21 PM
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Do we know that?

I think at least once it said that scabbers was asleep on harry's bed when he got to it and scabbers really wasn't mentioned very much, especially in Chamber. He could have been off wandering around most of the time. Crookshanks was able to wander around the common room and be outside with doggie sirius (and order the firebolt).

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