mikehunt

Just saw it today in hardcover. sequel to Ender's Shadow

benedict

First edition errata: here

Seeker

Hmmm... I thought you were talking about "Shadow of the Giant"....

Shadow of the Hegemon has been out a long time.... might even be in paperback about now.

Seeker

Yep Shadow of the Hegemon came out in paper in Dec 2001.

Seeker

But please, any news about Card's books are welcome! Really!

milo bloom

Wow, I came here for an Orson Scott Card thread, and there's one right on top!

I just picked up Speaker for the Dead, (read Ender's Game not too long ago), and I'm enjoying Speaker, but I notice there's several novels in the series.

I was wondering if there's some point where Card jumps the shark, if you will, with his sequelitis? So I should stop reading the series before then?

Certainly hope not...

Seeker

Ender's Game - excellent

Speaker for the Dead - excellent

Xenocide - so so

Children of the Mind - so so

Ender's Shadow (a retelling of Enders Game) - excellent

Shadow of the Hegemon - pretty good

Shadow of the Giant - not out yet

Shadow of Death - not out yet

I haven't regretted reading any of them, but was glad that Card went back to the beginning. He seems more comfortable there.

p1forest

Hadn't heard about these two; I had even checked Orson Scott Card's website a few days ago.

So, I did a search, and found some info at another website: "Final book in the Shadow Series following the exploits of Bean, Peter, Petra and the other characters from Ender's Game and is the final book in the parallel series." If it's the final book in the parallel series, then what is "Shadow of Death?"

I'd also agree that he seems more 'comfortable' with the beginning of the series, and it's interesting seeing the different perspectives of the different characters.

PS - I don't care what Bandoman says about you, you're ok in my book.

Seeker

I'm just going by the afterword by Card in the Shadow of the Hegemon book as to what his plans are going forward with the series. In the afterword, he describes his plans for Bean and the books for the future, and mentions both those titles.

He may have changed his mind since then.

Seeker

I may have the next two books "backwards" - a search on the net found this list:

1. Ender's Game
2. Speaker for the Dead
3. Xenocide
4. Children of the Mind
5. Ender's Shadow
6. Shadow of the Hegemon
7. Shadow of Death
8. Shadow of the Giant

Seeker

Turns out the new book (after Shadow of the Hegemon) will be

Shadow Puppets

and is coming out on August 19!

Eric F

Yes, and I already have a reserve on it at my local library.
They're no "Ender" but they're excellent nonetheless. I found the first one fascinating.

Next two months are good for SF/Fantasy. Sept has the final book of Terry Brook's new Shanara trilogy. Weeee!

SpacemanSpiff

damn i just finished enders game for the first time, he sure strung out this series.... ill prob read it all eventually

Darren Garrison

So, did he do any backpedaling away from his anti-American rant in the afterword of Shadow of the Hedgemon, which included the following comment?

"How likely is it that someone who took part in the Clinton administration's immoral decision to launch unprovoked attacks on Afghanistan and the Sudan in the late summer of 1998 would be able to write a novel in which the political exigencies that led to these criminal acts are accurately recounted?"

Does the blow-hard, self-important twit make any concession at all, or does he still hold the position that attacking an Al-Queda training camp and attempting to kill Osama Bin Laden after one of his terrorists hits on American interests was "immoral" and "unprovoked", and "criminal"? Or was he not even "man enough" to even mention it? If he deserves any respect at all, he's staying awake at night wishing he could erase those words, and wishing that, instead of a couple of dozen bombs on one training camp, Clinton would dropped a couple of hundred thousand on ALL of the training camps.

bdshort

I've just read Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead, both excellent. I have Xenocide... I guess I should pick it up and actually start reading it, and then the rest of the series.

I'm reading Cosmos right now, and after that I thought I would read Lem's "Solaris"... maybe once I'm done there, I'll pick up Xenocide again.

Brian

Seeker

Well, for new readers, here is my assessment updated, along with a "chronolgical view":

Publishing order: (and, I'd say, reading order)


Ender's Game - excellent
Speaker for the Dead - excellent
Xenocide - so so
Children of the Mind - so so

Ender's Shadow (a retelling of Enders Game) - excellent
Shadow of the Hegemon - pretty good
Shadow Puppets - out Aug 19
Shadow ??????? - more books planned? He appears enamored with playing this out.

-------------------------------------------------

Chronological:

Ender's Game/Ender's Shadow (it's the same story, different points of view)
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow Puppets

(much later)
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

fiver

For those who have read shadow of the hegemon. Does it improve on ender's shadow at all? I really enjoyed the first four books (ender's game, speaker for the dead, xenocide, and children of the mind), but I was really really turned off by ender's shadow. All of a sudden, the victories that seemed to be all about ender and his abilities in ender's game were no longer his alone but could not have been achieved without some off-screen presence. I didn't for once buy that considering the tone of the original novel. Anyone agree or disagree?

einTier

Though none of the books match the brilliance of Ender's Game, I really thought the series got off track with Xenocide.

It could have been much more than it was, and yet, you almost had to read it because of how Speaker for the Dead ended. Xenocide absolutely forced you to read Children of the Mind to get resolution, which I think is abhorrant considering how bad Children of the Mind was. Granted, it wasn't unreadable, but it was certainly not a book I look forward to ever reading again.

I have not read any of the Shadow series yet. I'm waiting for them to be complete so I can plow through them in a week or so.

Seeker

einTier - you can probably read Ender's Shadow as a reminiscence of Ender's Game, and forgo the rest (Card seems to have that story down, but everything else he tries to be a "writer" vs. a storyteller)

fiver has a valid point though - if you really admire Ender, he gets taken down a notch or two in favor of Bean in the Shadow books.

fiver

Seeker: It just seems strange that Mr. Card would revise his original creation this way. I've never read the original short story that the novel ender's game was based on so I can't compare those two characteristics, but it was quite clear in the original novel (to me anyhow) that it was ender's unconventional tactics and strategy that "won" the war. Bean as much as the rest of the children Ender trained and trained with helped shape his humanity but, in the end, they were highly trained tools which Ender utilized to meet his strategical goals. To go back and revise that story seems to be saying that noone, not even this genius of genetic engineering, could overcome this huge of a task alone and defeats the entire purpose of the original novel. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth which even the third and fourth novels in the series do not.

If the rest of the "shadow" series continues in this vein, then I would certainly hesitate to pick them up lest my feeling towards the original novels become twisted.

Sorry to turn this into an ender vs. shadow ender post but I really feel Mr. Card is doing a disservice to his characters with their current incarnation.

Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm overstating the matter

Michael

Seeker

No, I think your points are valid and merit further discussion.

Anyone else?

Darren Garrison

If he comes out with a "Shadow of that Alien Queen 'larva' That Arranges to be Found by Ender in Speaker of the Dead", I'm driving the few hours to his house and beating him with a stick.

Eric F

I noticed that statement myself but pretty much ignored it. Whether you agree with him or not, the best, most challanging authors always put a bit of their own views into the story. Or have you not read any of Mr. Card's other books? You have to remember that he's Mormon. Alot of his books are rife with Mormon themes (ie: Alvin the Maker series) and just a general "anti-violence" tone. That's what makes Ender so fascinating.

Darren Garrison

Well, I first read it a couple of months ago, so it screamed out at me. Even if I had read it BEFORE Sept. 11th, it would have annoyed me. I knew who Osama and Al Queda were, what the Taliban was, and cheered on the attack against him. I still would have concidered Card's statement to be that of a crackpot flake.

Quote:

have you not read any of Mr. Card's other books? You have to remember that he's Mormon. Alot of his books are rife with Mormon themes (ie: Alvin the Maker series) and just a general "anti-violence" tone. That's what makes Ender so fascinating.

I've read all of his Ender books (starting over 10 years ago), his 5 "Homecoming" books, Lovelock, Pastwatch, his book on writing Science Fiction, and Lost Boys. Haven't read any of the others, and don't intend to read any Mormon-based ones (though Lost Boys was more than a little Mormony) because that particular goofy cult is too goofy for my tastes. Mormon PEOPLE may be good and decent but the Powers-that-be of the "religion" itself are almost as corrupt and controling as those of Scientology.

Eric F

Now we're getting into regligions which I really didn't want to do. I'm not Mormon myself but I've known and worked with a few, and they're very interesting, but I'd hardly call them a "cult" or "corrupt". They are recognized as a legitimate religion by the US Gov't.

Yes, I read that statement long before Sept. 11th. Even then I was a bit shocked by it. You cannot pick and choose which books by Mr. Card has his Mormon influenced ethics in them, because they all do. Mormons will not serve in the armed forces and are very anti-violence of any type. Now, think about what you read in Ender's Game in that context.