Next Xbox to skip hard drive?
#1
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Next Xbox to skip hard drive?
http://news.com.com/2100-1043-516499...t=dtx&tag=ntop
Flash memory maker M-Systems announced on Wednesday that it has signed a contract to provide storage products for future versions of the Xbox, bolstering speculation that Microsoft may ditch the game console's hard drive.
M-Systems, best known for its DiskOnKey line of flash drives, which attach to a PC's Universal Serial Bus port, said in a statement that it has signed an agreement with Microsoft to develop "customized memory units for future Xbox products and services."
Ronit Maor, chief financial officer at Israel-based M-Systems, said the company could not discuss details of the contract. But Maor said the devices under development would be of significantly higher capacity than the 8MB Xbox memory units Microsoft currently sells to save game and user data. "What we're going to offer for the Xbox doesn't currently exist," Maor said.
The M-Systems announcement comes shortly after Microsoft revealed plans for expanding Xbox Live, the online game service it runs, to include limited online storage capabilities. The combination has bolstered speculation that Microsoft will drop the hard drive from the next version of the Xbox to cut production costs for the money-losing console.
Microsoft representatives declined to comment on the company's plan for next-generation Xbox hardware.
Jay Srivatsa, a senior analyst at research firm iSuppli, said the Xbox hard drive so far has been used mainly for ancillary functions like saving progress in a game, not to improve the way games work. Sacrificing the hard drive could be a relatively painless way to trim $10 or $20 per unit from production costs. "I can see why they'd attempt to do that--the hard disk usage on the current Xbox has been pretty minimal," he said. "At some point, this has got to be a profitable business for Microsoft. They have to draw some lines; look at what can they take out."
The current Xbox will gain another storage option late this year, when Microsoft releases an "extender kit" for attaching the console to a PC running Windows XP Media Center, noted P.J. McNealy, an analyst at American Technology Research. That and expanded online features could obviate the need for a hard drive, he said.
"If the network is robust enough to handle some of the processing, and you have a fast-enough connection, you can push some of the functionality of the hard drive back onto the network," McNealy said.
Richard Doherty, president of research firm The Envisioneering Group, said adding recording functionality to the Xbox's DVD drive would be a cheaper way to provide storage than a hard drive and would rob hackers of one of their primary tools for making the Xbox perform unauthorized tricks. "The hard drive became a liability in relation to those units that were hacked," Doherty said.
M-Systems, best known for its DiskOnKey line of flash drives, which attach to a PC's Universal Serial Bus port, said in a statement that it has signed an agreement with Microsoft to develop "customized memory units for future Xbox products and services."
Ronit Maor, chief financial officer at Israel-based M-Systems, said the company could not discuss details of the contract. But Maor said the devices under development would be of significantly higher capacity than the 8MB Xbox memory units Microsoft currently sells to save game and user data. "What we're going to offer for the Xbox doesn't currently exist," Maor said.
The M-Systems announcement comes shortly after Microsoft revealed plans for expanding Xbox Live, the online game service it runs, to include limited online storage capabilities. The combination has bolstered speculation that Microsoft will drop the hard drive from the next version of the Xbox to cut production costs for the money-losing console.
Microsoft representatives declined to comment on the company's plan for next-generation Xbox hardware.
Jay Srivatsa, a senior analyst at research firm iSuppli, said the Xbox hard drive so far has been used mainly for ancillary functions like saving progress in a game, not to improve the way games work. Sacrificing the hard drive could be a relatively painless way to trim $10 or $20 per unit from production costs. "I can see why they'd attempt to do that--the hard disk usage on the current Xbox has been pretty minimal," he said. "At some point, this has got to be a profitable business for Microsoft. They have to draw some lines; look at what can they take out."
The current Xbox will gain another storage option late this year, when Microsoft releases an "extender kit" for attaching the console to a PC running Windows XP Media Center, noted P.J. McNealy, an analyst at American Technology Research. That and expanded online features could obviate the need for a hard drive, he said.
"If the network is robust enough to handle some of the processing, and you have a fast-enough connection, you can push some of the functionality of the hard drive back onto the network," McNealy said.
Richard Doherty, president of research firm The Envisioneering Group, said adding recording functionality to the Xbox's DVD drive would be a cheaper way to provide storage than a hard drive and would rob hackers of one of their primary tools for making the Xbox perform unauthorized tricks. "The hard drive became a liability in relation to those units that were hacked," Doherty said.
#3
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The networking idea sounds like a very viable solution to not having a harddrive. If I was able to stream music off of my computer to a game, that would be fantastic.
#4
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As a supporter of the innovations Microsoft has brought to the table with the Xbox, I don't like the idea of using your PC as a storage device. Assuming this is what they decide to do with X2 (which I doubt will be it's primary option, since it's stupid), what if I want to take my X2 to a friends? I now have to take my PC and the related networking gear to bring my save games?
#6
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Assuming this is what they decide to do with X2 (which I doubt will be it's primary option, since it's stupid), what if I want to take my X2 to a friends?
#7
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Originally posted by nemein
It still sounds like there is going to be some sort of flash memory card. The PC thing is going to be optional.
It still sounds like there is going to be some sort of flash memory card. The PC thing is going to be optional.
#8
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I love having the hard drive and not having to buy cards for XBOX. But I must say that the Flash thing sounds alright.
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The only thing I would be worried about is price. Hard drives cost nothing, but flash media is expensive stuff right now. How much cheaper can it get in the next 2 years?
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I'm perfectly fine with having flash media for storage rather than a hard drive, ONLY if the networking functionality is proposed. Actually, I perfer this over the current setup because I've said this a hundred times on this forum I'm not comfortable with having a console depend on an internal hard drive to work. I'm always scared of having it go bad in five years and then my investment is completely gone. In comparison, no one around here worries about their Genesis or SNES consoles lasting forever...
And for those who don't like their files saved on a computer, there are also portable storage solutions that you can take with you when you bring your Xbox to a friend's house. What this will do to LAN parties, I don't know...
Using flash media and getting rid of the HD gives Xbox 2 a longer life. Now I just want them to GUARANTEE they will still have the option of downloadable content and custom soundtracks!
Jeremy
And for those who don't like their files saved on a computer, there are also portable storage solutions that you can take with you when you bring your Xbox to a friend's house. What this will do to LAN parties, I don't know...
Using flash media and getting rid of the HD gives Xbox 2 a longer life. Now I just want them to GUARANTEE they will still have the option of downloadable content and custom soundtracks!
Jeremy
#13
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This is a bad idea - a step backwards... if they are going to get rid of the hard drive. I have a feeling they are just going to be developing their memory card storage solution and perhaps xbox system memory. MS didn't make much money on memory card sales by including a hard drive, so I can see this happening. It's not good for the consumer. Certainly they aren't going to replace the HD with flash memory because that would be highly cost prohibitive. I'm also tired of hearing that the HD isn't being supported enough - it has been the best thing to happen to consoles since the memory card. I use it every time I use my xbox. Just because there's 500 different uses for a spoon and most people only use it for one thing, eating soup - does that mean they should stop making spoons?
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This is one of the downsides to having certain components built into systems. MS should have made the HD and the broadband adapter removable from the Xbox. That way current Xbox users could use them again for Xbox 2.
#16
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I am hopping that at least the mem cards will be backwards compatable on the next gen of all three systems.
So do you think the other two will forget about putting in a HD after MS troubles with it?
So do you think the other two will forget about putting in a HD after MS troubles with it?
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Originally posted by flashburn
Is Xbox2 supposed to have backwards compatiability? If so, no harddrive would cause some interesting problems with games that need one.
Is Xbox2 supposed to have backwards compatiability? If so, no harddrive would cause some interesting problems with games that need one.
#19
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Originally posted by joshd2012
The industry talk right now is that it won't be backwards compatible.
The industry talk right now is that it won't be backwards compatible.
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Originally posted by funkyryno
Which is even worse than not having a hard drive.
Which is even worse than not having a hard drive.
If true, it will probably be pretty well impossible for that hardware to be backwards compatible with the Xbox's Nvidia/Intel design. Software emulation is very unlikely also given the enormous power it takes. The Xbox can barely emulate the SNES and Genesis properly.
At some point backwards compatibility has to be sacrificed to move a system forward, it is *very* difficult to make major advances yet still maintain compatibility with the old technology. Basically, you have to build two systems in one and include many of the older system's parts too. This is often cost prohibitive. Personally, I would rather have a +10 leap in technology with no backwards compatibility than a +5 with it.
On the other hand, MS would be making a huge mistake by not including a HD. I can't fathom them doing this, especially as much as they are promoting Xbox Live. Updates to the Xbox Live software on stored on the hard drive, downloadable content (new maps, mechs, etc.) are stored on the hard drive, etc. Unless they are going to include a substantial amount of this flash memory, removing the hard drive is a huge step backwards. Then there is the other problem: flash memory is only designed to be rewritten a limited number of times and is not well-suited for storing an active file system. In any case, a 10GB hard drive in bulk probably costs MS $10 or less. If they need to cut corners somewhere on the cost, this isn't the place IMO.
#22
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Originally posted by tanman
So do you think the other two will forget about putting in a HD after MS troubles with it?
So do you think the other two will forget about putting in a HD after MS troubles with it?
#23
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Originally posted by Trigger
This is a bad idea - a step backwards... if they are going to get rid of the hard drive. I have a feeling they are just going to be developing their memory card storage solution and perhaps xbox system memory. MS didn't make much money on memory card sales by including a hard drive, so I can see this happening. It's not good for the consumer. Certainly they aren't going to replace the HD with flash memory because that would be highly cost prohibitive. I'm also tired of hearing that the HD isn't being supported enough - it has been the best thing to happen to consoles since the memory card. I use it every time I use my xbox. Just because there's 500 different uses for a spoon and most people only use it for one thing, eating soup - does that mean they should stop making spoons?
This is a bad idea - a step backwards... if they are going to get rid of the hard drive. I have a feeling they are just going to be developing their memory card storage solution and perhaps xbox system memory. MS didn't make much money on memory card sales by including a hard drive, so I can see this happening. It's not good for the consumer. Certainly they aren't going to replace the HD with flash memory because that would be highly cost prohibitive. I'm also tired of hearing that the HD isn't being supported enough - it has been the best thing to happen to consoles since the memory card. I use it every time I use my xbox. Just because there's 500 different uses for a spoon and most people only use it for one thing, eating soup - does that mean they should stop making spoons?
I also wonder, and perhaps you guys can help me with this because I may be way off base, did the Hard Drive on Xbox contribute to the Game quality in terms of graphic, sound, and speed? If it did then how will using flash affect these?
#24
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Originally posted by Giantrobo
I also wonder, and perhaps you guys can help me with this because I may be way off base, did the Hard Drive on Xbox contribute to the Game quality in terms of graphic, sound, and speed? If it did then how will using flash affect these?
I also wonder, and perhaps you guys can help me with this because I may be way off base, did the Hard Drive on Xbox contribute to the Game quality in terms of graphic, sound, and speed? If it did then how will using flash affect these?
Sound? yes and no - if you consider all the games that use the 'bring your own soundtrack' feature, then yes... otherwise, no.
Speed? Yes... hard drive helped cut down load times, but not much else.
Basically, here's what I think is so cool about the hard drive... console companies want you to pay 30 bucks for like 8 or 16 MB memory cards to save your games... they fill up quick. Now, 8gb hard drives are like 30 bucks or so a piece, bought in bulk for a console, I'm sure they can be had for much cheaper. I'd rather pay 30 bucks extra for a system I didn't have to ever buy memory cards for. Not only can I store music for custom soundtracks and whatnot and store all my game saves without ever having to worry about running out of space, I can download new content for games I've already bought and beat. There's value in that. I pay 50 bucks for Splinter Cell on another console and once I finish the game, I'm done. I pay 50 bucks for Splinter Cell on xbox and when I finish the game, there's more missions to download for free. That's pretty sweet if you ask me. True, game developers could be supporting the hard drive more than they are, but even if it was just one or two games that had downloadable content or whatever I'd still think it was a brilliant idea. I really hope they don't take this direction with the next version of the console. Perhaps I need to talk to my friend and probe for info on this topic.
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Thanks.