Question about Planet of the Apes.
11-10-02, 07:55 PM
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Question about Planet of the Apes.
In the 2001 version of the film, I was wondering if someone could explain something for me. At the end of the film when Mark Wahlberg crash lands his ship in Washington DC, why was everybody an ape. Was he back on earth but a in the future, past or somewhere else? Thanks for any help you can offer.
11-10-02, 11:03 PM
#2
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When he return to Washington DC, he realized that the past has been altered. The human race was wipe out altogether by the Apes.
Just like back to the future, when Biff of the future flew back into and gave Biff of the past the almaniac, which ultimately change the future as well.
Same idea here, the ape of the future flew back and teach the apes of the past the new knowledge and tech. The ape became much smarter and better than the human and thus control, and eventually wipe out the human race. In which, mark return to the altered past to realized what he has done.
Sorry, I used the back to the future as example cause I'm a big fan of back to the future.....
Just like back to the future, when Biff of the future flew back into and gave Biff of the past the almaniac, which ultimately change the future as well.
Same idea here, the ape of the future flew back and teach the apes of the past the new knowledge and tech. The ape became much smarter and better than the human and thus control, and eventually wipe out the human race. In which, mark return to the altered past to realized what he has done.
Sorry, I used the back to the future as example cause I'm a big fan of back to the future.....
11-11-02, 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Heat
Was the ending an attempt to create a basis for a sequal, but the sequal never happened because the first one (2001 version) just wasn't that good?
Was the ending an attempt to create a basis for a sequal, but the sequal never happened because the first one (2001 version) just wasn't that good?
The main reason why they don't do a sequel is not because the first one wasn't that good. A bad movie has never been a sufficient reason to stop the production of any sequel. The fact that it didn't live to its monetary expectations is a much more plausible idea.
But the ending, whatever is said about it, effectively seems pasted there in the hope of creating a sequel-friendly situation.
11-11-02, 09:32 AM
#5
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Well, the movie did okay as it grossed about $160 million, but it was overall a disappointment in terms of bad story and producing little more than eye candy.
In terms of the ending, I know it was done to set up a sequel, and it still might happen, Burton just won't be involved. The ending was different from usual twist endings in that it directly named Thade as the reason for the ape conquered earth, so obviously they intend to keep him as the bad guy should a sequel come to light.
In terms of the ending, I know it was done to set up a sequel, and it still might happen, Burton just won't be involved. The ending was different from usual twist endings in that it directly named Thade as the reason for the ape conquered earth, so obviously they intend to keep him as the bad guy should a sequel come to light.
11-11-02, 11:04 AM
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Uhhmm, guys, the ending of the book comes from the original novel by Pierre Boulle, published several years before the 1968 film was made.
In the book, after leaving the ape planet, the astronauts land back on Earth only to discover it is a modern world filled with apes.
This wasn't Tim Burton's idea....
In the book, after leaving the ape planet, the astronauts land back on Earth only to discover it is a modern world filled with apes.
This wasn't Tim Burton's idea....
11-11-02, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by SuperJim88
When he return to Washington DC, he realized that the past has been altered. The human race was wipe out altogether by the Apes.
Just like back to the future, when Biff of the future flew back into and gave Biff of the past the almaniac, which ultimately change the future as well.
Same idea here, the ape of the future flew back and teach the apes of the past the new knowledge and tech. The ape became much smarter and better than the human and thus control, and eventually wipe out the human race. In which, mark return to the altered past to realized what he has done.
Sorry, I used the back to the future as example cause I'm a big fan of back to the future.....
When he return to Washington DC, he realized that the past has been altered. The human race was wipe out altogether by the Apes.
Just like back to the future, when Biff of the future flew back into and gave Biff of the past the almaniac, which ultimately change the future as well.
Same idea here, the ape of the future flew back and teach the apes of the past the new knowledge and tech. The ape became much smarter and better than the human and thus control, and eventually wipe out the human race. In which, mark return to the altered past to realized what he has done.
Sorry, I used the back to the future as example cause I'm a big fan of back to the future.....
11-11-02, 03:54 PM
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Ok Ok, let me use fake year number to illustrate it better.
From the beignning, it started let's say year 3000.
When the ape is lost while training, the ape of year 3000 time travel into the past like year 1000, while when Mark chase after him actually went into like year 4000.
The ape of year 3000 travel back into year 1000 and taught all the apes of year 1000 to be smart and began to conquert human race in which point the Mark of year 3000 travel into year 4000 realize that Apes are all smarter than humans and conquert them. Mark realize he must stop them so he decided to fly back and stop the ape of year 3000 in travel back into the year 1000 while he doesn't the know the exact time the ape traveled. So Mark guess year 2000 in which it's still too late, cause the ape actually change the history much much earlier......
Get it now? Now take out the year number, cause those are fake to illustrate points.....
From the beignning, it started let's say year 3000.
When the ape is lost while training, the ape of year 3000 time travel into the past like year 1000, while when Mark chase after him actually went into like year 4000.
The ape of year 3000 travel back into year 1000 and taught all the apes of year 1000 to be smart and began to conquert human race in which point the Mark of year 3000 travel into year 4000 realize that Apes are all smarter than humans and conquert them. Mark realize he must stop them so he decided to fly back and stop the ape of year 3000 in travel back into the year 1000 while he doesn't the know the exact time the ape traveled. So Mark guess year 2000 in which it's still too late, cause the ape actually change the history much much earlier......
Get it now? Now take out the year number, cause those are fake to illustrate points.....
11-11-02, 04:42 PM
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Here's what I thought.
Objects that enter the vortex earlier come out with a greater time displacement. The sequence is chimp, closely followed by Marky Mark, and much later followed by the space station itself. Assuming that it works this way forward, possibly it works the opposite traveling backward -- objects entering later have a greater time displacement.
The space station goes the least amount forward in time. It lands hundreds (thousands? Can't remember) of years before Marky Mark does. Marky Mark lands, has adventures. A few days later, the chimp lands. Marky Mark takes chimp's ship back in time, lands in present day America... which is ruled by apes.
What we have to assume is the "peace talks" on super-future earth were not successful. Thade either escapes or is let free, and at some point, the chimps or/and humans figure out how to reverse engineer the space ship technology. Thade uses or steals the ship and travels through the same vortex Mark did. Only, because he flys in much later, he is displaced much later in the past -- maybe Civil War times, or maybe prehistoric Earth. He teaches the apes how to fight the humans, breeds super apes, and develops technology. The humans never stand a chance.
Objects that enter the vortex earlier come out with a greater time displacement. The sequence is chimp, closely followed by Marky Mark, and much later followed by the space station itself. Assuming that it works this way forward, possibly it works the opposite traveling backward -- objects entering later have a greater time displacement.
The space station goes the least amount forward in time. It lands hundreds (thousands? Can't remember) of years before Marky Mark does. Marky Mark lands, has adventures. A few days later, the chimp lands. Marky Mark takes chimp's ship back in time, lands in present day America... which is ruled by apes.
What we have to assume is the "peace talks" on super-future earth were not successful. Thade either escapes or is let free, and at some point, the chimps or/and humans figure out how to reverse engineer the space ship technology. Thade uses or steals the ship and travels through the same vortex Mark did. Only, because he flys in much later, he is displaced much later in the past -- maybe Civil War times, or maybe prehistoric Earth. He teaches the apes how to fight the humans, breeds super apes, and develops technology. The humans never stand a chance.
Last edited by einTier; 11-11-02 at 04:44 PM.
11-11-02, 06:17 PM
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The funny thing is...the ending was just made to give you the jaw drop reaction...there is no reason/story on why it happen. Director just plugged it in for reaction. So don’t over analyze it….because there is no answer to the question of “why/how come”?
11-11-02, 08:12 PM
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We were through this a million times when the movie came out:
Just like White Knight said, Tim Burton had no intention of doing a sequel, and had no reason to do this for other than "shock value". There were a few different endings but the outcome is pretty much the same: pointless, especially since he had no intention of explaining it, and said as much.
Don't let it keep you up at night.
Just like White Knight said, Tim Burton had no intention of doing a sequel, and had no reason to do this for other than "shock value". There were a few different endings but the outcome is pretty much the same: pointless, especially since he had no intention of explaining it, and said as much.
Don't let it keep you up at night.
11-11-02, 10:11 PM
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Thanks for all of the replys. I wasn't around back when the movie first came out. Sunday was the first time I even seen it. It just puzzled me about the way the movie ended. BTW, I won't.
11-12-02, 08:38 AM
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Here's what I thought.
Objects that enter the vortex earlier come out with a greater time displacement. The sequence is chimp, closely followed by Marky Mark, and much later followed by the space station itself. Assuming that it works this way forward, possibly it works the opposite traveling backward -- objects entering later have a greater time displacement.
The space station goes the least amount forward in time. It lands hundreds (thousands? Can't remember) of years before Marky Mark does. Marky Mark lands, has adventures. A few days later, the chimp lands. Marky Mark takes chimp's ship back in time, lands in present day America... which is ruled by apes.
Objects that enter the vortex earlier come out with a greater time displacement. The sequence is chimp, closely followed by Marky Mark, and much later followed by the space station itself. Assuming that it works this way forward, possibly it works the opposite traveling backward -- objects entering later have a greater time displacement.
The space station goes the least amount forward in time. It lands hundreds (thousands? Can't remember) of years before Marky Mark does. Marky Mark lands, has adventures. A few days later, the chimp lands. Marky Mark takes chimp's ship back in time, lands in present day America... which is ruled by apes.
I was about halfway through this post before I busted out laughing. The guy can win back to back Oscars, and yet people will still refer to him as "Marky Mark".
10-30-06, 10:18 PM
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Mark Wahlberg, because of his impulseness, destroyed the human race when he went out to "get his chimp."
This is certainly not worthy of a bump, but what the hell - why create a new thread just to say this: I didn't like the movie the first time I saw it in 2001, but liked it now seeing it a 2nd time in 2006. I like how ONE MAN could destroy man's history from the Earth - worse than simply pushing a button as President of the United States and triggering a nuclear war. Pushing the button would eliminate the FUTURE OF HUMANITY, but not eliminate the past. Mark Wahlberg actually did BOTH, in an innocent gesture of trying to get his chimp back to base.
Oh, and I heard that Mark Wahlberg was scheduled to fly out of Boston on September 11, 2001 - on one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At the last minute, he took a car with friends to New York. Planet of the Apes came out in the summer of 2001, and Wahlberg would have been history himself just a few months later.
This is certainly not worthy of a bump, but what the hell - why create a new thread just to say this: I didn't like the movie the first time I saw it in 2001, but liked it now seeing it a 2nd time in 2006. I like how ONE MAN could destroy man's history from the Earth - worse than simply pushing a button as President of the United States and triggering a nuclear war. Pushing the button would eliminate the FUTURE OF HUMANITY, but not eliminate the past. Mark Wahlberg actually did BOTH, in an innocent gesture of trying to get his chimp back to base.
Oh, and I heard that Mark Wahlberg was scheduled to fly out of Boston on September 11, 2001 - on one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At the last minute, he took a car with friends to New York. Planet of the Apes came out in the summer of 2001, and Wahlberg would have been history himself just a few months later.
10-31-06, 09:56 AM
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Like Steve Phillips in the above post said, the ending comes from the book. If you read the whole story you find out that the "story" of the astronauts was found in space in a bottle or capsule. Those that found it read the story. At the end of the story the astonauts make it back to earth only to find that apes are in charge there also so they then escape back into space and write this account and release it into space.
When those that have found it have finished reading it, they call it a fraud or fiction. You then find out that those that found the story are apes and think it is funny that someone wrote the story as if they were humans.
P.S. I think the 2001 version sucked. Way too rushed,andthe ape attracted to the human thing was just stupid.
When those that have found it have finished reading it, they call it a fraud or fiction. You then find out that those that found the story are apes and think it is funny that someone wrote the story as if they were humans.
P.S. I think the 2001 version sucked. Way too rushed,andthe ape attracted to the human thing was just stupid.
10-31-06, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MScottM
Like Steve Phillips in the above post said, the ending comes from the book. If you read the whole story you find out that the "story" of the astronauts was found in space in a bottle or capsule. Those that found it read the story. At the end of the story the astonauts make it back to earth only to find that apes are in charge there also so they then escape back into space and write this account and release it into space.
When those that have found it have finished reading it, they call it a fraud or fiction. You then find out that those that found the story are apes and think it is funny that someone wrote the story as if they were humans.
When those that have found it have finished reading it, they call it a fraud or fiction. You then find out that those that found the story are apes and think it is funny that someone wrote the story as if they were humans.
10-31-06, 01:50 PM
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I don't think I've actually watched this since I saw it in the theaters, but the time vortex explanation has always made perfect sense to me. I don't think it's as good of a movie as the original of course, but that's more to do with the overall feel and atmosphere than any perceived continuity issues.
10-31-06, 10:58 PM
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The remake ending is inspired by the book ending but it makes no sense whereas the book ending did.
When Ulysse returns to Earth in the original novel the shocker is that the Apes have taken over Earth, suggesting that Ape dominance is an inevitability. The revelation that the space explorers in the wraparound portions are revealed to be Apes as well hammers it home.
What makes the remake ending so retarded is that it suggests that Thade somehow got to Earth before Marky Mark and single-handedly lead all of Earth's Apes to take over the planet.
Now, "Conquest" is my favorite of all the sequels but the idea of a single Ape causing such a revolution is a big pill to swallow in that film and it's still given the entire runtime of the film to make it's case.
Now, the remake ending basically says that Thade pulled a "Conquest" and expects the audience to buy it in the span of about 30 seconds. That's just crappy writing.
When Ulysse returns to Earth in the original novel the shocker is that the Apes have taken over Earth, suggesting that Ape dominance is an inevitability. The revelation that the space explorers in the wraparound portions are revealed to be Apes as well hammers it home.
What makes the remake ending so retarded is that it suggests that Thade somehow got to Earth before Marky Mark and single-handedly lead all of Earth's Apes to take over the planet.
Now, "Conquest" is my favorite of all the sequels but the idea of a single Ape causing such a revolution is a big pill to swallow in that film and it's still given the entire runtime of the film to make it's case.
Now, the remake ending basically says that Thade pulled a "Conquest" and expects the audience to buy it in the span of about 30 seconds. That's just crappy writing.
11-01-06, 08:17 AM
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[QUOTE=GuruTwo]
Now, "Conquest" is my favorite of all the sequels but the idea of a single Ape causing such a revolution is a big pill to swallow in that film and it's still given the entire runtime of the film to make it's case.
QUOTE]
I think you miss the point about "Conquest". Yes one ape started the revolution that eventually lead to the take over by apes but the major event that coincided with the "revolution" was a nuclear war that wiped out most of the human race. If there was no war or if the war would have occurred even 6 months or so later then the "world" would have been a different place and humans would have most likely killed all of the apes that had revolted. And another thing. In all of the original movies, all of the "major" events took place withing 50 miles or so of New York city. No telling what was going on in the rest of the world.
Now, "Conquest" is my favorite of all the sequels but the idea of a single Ape causing such a revolution is a big pill to swallow in that film and it's still given the entire runtime of the film to make it's case.
QUOTE]
I think you miss the point about "Conquest". Yes one ape started the revolution that eventually lead to the take over by apes but the major event that coincided with the "revolution" was a nuclear war that wiped out most of the human race. If there was no war or if the war would have occurred even 6 months or so later then the "world" would have been a different place and humans would have most likely killed all of the apes that had revolted. And another thing. In all of the original movies, all of the "major" events took place withing 50 miles or so of New York city. No telling what was going on in the rest of the world.
11-01-06, 09:01 AM
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To this day I still don't get how people are confused about this ending. I thought it was kind of predictable when I saw it. "But, how did Thade get to Earth?" There were additional pods buried with the ship and Thade new about the pod that landed in the swamp. Clearly, he used one of these and figured out how to get it 'home' to Earth. Perhaps there was a simple auto pilot to bring it back. He just ended up getting there much earlier than Captain Davidson. I doubt travelling through time in a worm hole is going to give you the same results every time.
However, I had this theory back then that basically said larger objects go farther back in time when they enter. The huge ship obviously landed on the ape planet thousands of years before Mark and the chimp. Captain Davidson only weighs 50 pounds more than his chimp which explains why he only landed a few days before Pericules.
However, I had this theory back then that basically said larger objects go farther back in time when they enter. The huge ship obviously landed on the ape planet thousands of years before Mark and the chimp. Captain Davidson only weighs 50 pounds more than his chimp which explains why he only landed a few days before Pericules.
11-01-06, 01:03 PM
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But my whole point is that the reveal of the original "Apes" film and novel is just a vague, general revelation which the audience can pretty much wrap their heads around within the time it takes Heston to have his "bloody bastards!" speech.
The Burton ending requires the audience to concoct an elaborate plot about Thade escaping his confinement, somehow getting to Earth before Marky Mark and leading an entire planet of Apes to revolt.
See the difference there? It would be like if Taylor found a little placard in the original film that somehow said that the son of Cornelius and Zira started the whole thing. That story took two sequels to explain (I'm not counting "Battle", it was pretty redundant and offered no new story points) and audiences can't really be expected to fill in the blanks in a case like that.
If you ignore the sequels to the original film and just look at the ending as audiences in '68 would have you can see that it was very open-ended and the audience could have interpreted and imagined how it happened in many ways. The remake ending thrusts upon the audience some set parameters that don't really make any sense in the first place and that's why it sucks.
The Burton ending requires the audience to concoct an elaborate plot about Thade escaping his confinement, somehow getting to Earth before Marky Mark and leading an entire planet of Apes to revolt.
See the difference there? It would be like if Taylor found a little placard in the original film that somehow said that the son of Cornelius and Zira started the whole thing. That story took two sequels to explain (I'm not counting "Battle", it was pretty redundant and offered no new story points) and audiences can't really be expected to fill in the blanks in a case like that.
If you ignore the sequels to the original film and just look at the ending as audiences in '68 would have you can see that it was very open-ended and the audience could have interpreted and imagined how it happened in many ways. The remake ending thrusts upon the audience some set parameters that don't really make any sense in the first place and that's why it sucks.
