DaveyJoe

Maybe it was Thor->Captain America->Avengers->Iron Man 2? I can't remember.

stingermck

Thanks, that's what I thought. Marvel made one movie, had a hit and were able to expand things, and even then it was a risk.

It's easy to forget with all their success that Marvel was taking a huge risk that could have failed at anytime, but most seem to focus on them being invincible and can do no wrong, unlike DC/WB

With that said, I'm still going to see them all, I just wish DC/WB could get a little more respect.

fumanstan

I think Man of Steel was far more disliked or at least divisive. And more critically panned too. Plus, the way the Marvel movies came together fairly organically which helped build the hype, versus DC just throwing everyone in right away after Man of Steel. Still, I recall people were pretty wary of Thor and Captain America working, especially after Hulk was somewhat mediocre. I don't remember people giving them a pass on that, and recall a director like Joe Johnston was scary for a lot of folks, especially after Wolfman.

DaveyJoe

It's hard to say, on rotten tomatoes Man of Steel has an audience score of 76% whereas Iron Man 2 is 73%, although you're right that critics were harder on MOS. I view both films as entertaining enough, if flawed. A lot of folks around here are pretty hard on Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 as well, yet I don't see much trepidation towards Phase 3. Whereas many folks here are sure that the DCU is going to fail.

fumanstan

I liked both too, but i'm still cautious about DC. Marvel's had multiple successful and entertaining movies, proved themselves with an unknown property in Guardians, and set up an intriguing story arc with the Infinity War. That's enough for them to get a pass for me. (Except for Ant Man, right?)

DC on the other hand seemed to go from working on a sequel to a decent Man of Steel movie to putting to shifting the focus to Superman AND Batman, plus all the cameos and plans for Justice League before anyone knows if they can make a good movie out of someone other then Superman and Batman, and want to rush things like a villain focused movie like Suicide Squad. I think it makes sense to be wary about their slate. Yeah they don't have to copy Marvel's pattern, but it does feel like they're bitting off more then they can chew.

Mike86

I think the difference between Marvel and DC in that regard is that it seemed pretty clear that Marvel was working towards something. They had Phase One lined up and it was ultimately leading into The Avengers. DC does one film and are pretty much jumping into trying to expand their universe on the basis of one sequel. It just seems like they're throwing it together because they feel like they have to compete. I mean seriously we're getting Batman V. Superman and the follow up to that is the Suicide Squad. That's like the most random comic to base a film off of especially considering that the biggest name in that series is Harley Quinn and she hasn't been established on screen at all. I just don't get the rationale behind the decisions Warner/DC are making and it really feels to me like they want people to believe they have plans in mind but they're just throwing things together and hoping that it works out.

DaveyJoe

Meh, I don't think it's that strange. We've seen Henry Cavill as Superman. The next movie is going to feature Superman and Batman. Let's be honest, it's smart for WB to get the new Batman established as soon as possible, he's the big money maker for DC. In that movie we'll get some cameos that are teasing to upcoming solo films and the Justice League movie. How is that different from Iron Man featuring Sam Jackson talking about the Avengers initiative?

Mike86

It would be one thing if it was one cameo but they're practically throwing in the entire Justice League in one film it seems like. Not literally but quite a few that we know of. Wonder Woman, Cyborg, and Aquaman small sound like they're appearing. Who knows who else will get thrown in by the time the film hits.

DaveyJoe

We don't know how much those characters will be in it. And remember, we've all ready had one film to start off the DCU with Man of Steel. So think of Batman V Superman as a parallel to Iron Man 2, which really got heavy with the Avengers stuff.

Mike86

I also dislike the Batman V. Superman film because its sounding more and more like they're using a lot of The Dark Knight Returns as the influence for the film which for a launching point for this universe to me doesn't make a lot of sense.

DaveyJoe

We all ready got novice Batman with Nolan's films, I like that they're going with a new approach. Maybe we'll get 4 or 5 movies with Affleck as Batman and the series can evolve with somebody else donning the cape. Aren't we discussing similar things happening with Captain America, phasing out Stark, etc? We really don't know how things are going to play out, and the point I'm driving at, is why is it so hard to keep an open mind with the DCU?

fumanstan

I think you've gotten a lot of good reasons

Mike86

For me its just what my gut instincts have been telling me all along. Ever since this project was announced it just hasn't felt right to me and has always just felt like Warner/DC saw the success Marvel Studios had with The Avengers and that got the gears in their minds turning that they could do it too. So they decide to but only its just coming off half-assed and thrown together. They seem to want to ride Marvel's coattails and expect big results.

Obi-Wanma

I think fans tend to give Nolan all the credit for the Dark Knight Trilogy and WB/DC credit for everything else, and to some degree, I think that's fair. When WB has hired directors with a strong vision who have been allowed put their own stamp on the product (Burton, Nolan), it has turned out well. When WB hires weaker directors and gets their say, you get shit like Green Lantern and Jonah Hex.

GoldenJCJ

My only hope is that the Internet is blowing these announced appearances out of proportion (I know, that's never happened before ) and that most,if not all the appearances will be similar to Hawkeye in the first Thor film - just a quick cameo to establish they exist in that particular universe and nothing more. I'll be very disappointed if all these announced characters actually play a role larger than just the cameo.

Mike86

To me with everyone they're announcing and making a big deal out of them being there makes me think the cameos won't be small. Plus they're going into an actual Justice League film shortly after this film is released.

GoldenJCJ

It's entirely possible (probable?) that that's the case but you have to let me hold on to the little hope I have left for this film, without it I've got nothing.

After all, the 'S' stands for hope!!

fumanstan

I think most of them will be cameos, with only Wonder Woman being more substantial.

Draven

If WB had thrown something into Man of Steel that hinted at a Justice League movie (ala Sam Jackson at the end of Iron Man) then I'd be more impressed. Instead, they turned MOS2 into Batman vs. Superman and are throwing Aquaman, Cyborg and Wonder Woman in the fucking thing. They obviously had no plan at all.

Obi-Wanma

There's also the impression that Marvel's film division is run by a bunch of people who love and respect the source material, while DC's film division is run buy a bunch of suits who have never read a comic book, but look at what Marvel's doing and see dollar signs, but don't really understand why it works. Whether that is fair or not, time will tell.

GoldenJCJ

But if you freeze the Man of Steel Blu-Ray at just the right time there is a single frame on the satellite that says Wayne Enterprises! They obviously had it all worked out from the beginning!

I think you hit the nail on the head. We all, of course, will turn out in droves to see Superman v. Batman so they are obviously doing something right...

The Valeyard

Once again - Warner Bros. is driving the DC movie boat. DC Entertainment would be lucky if they had a representative cleaning up after the meeting. This is all Warner Executive driven. There is no "DC film division." It's Warner giving power to separate production entities who's only ties together is David Goyer nodding in approval.

I wish DC had their own Kevin Feige.

DaveyJoe

They have been planning since 2007:




But okay, Jesus people. I see that WB will be constantly second guessed and Marvel will be given passes. And you all said I was overreacting and being overly negative about Ant-Man's creative differences and writer/director difficulties.

fumanstan

The whole DCU is your Ant-Man

DaveyJoe

there there.