Perkinsun Dzees

I can't get enough of these superhero movies so I have no problem with them. Black Panter, Dr. Strange, Aquaman -- bring 'em on!

I'm even pumped at seeing Nightcrawler this weekend. Not one of my fave X-Men characters, but still looking forward to seeing him in his own movie!

Solid Snake

Hahaha.

taffer

Um, people don't shit on Fox because of X-Men. The X-Men franchise has done very very well. Out of seven movies, only two of them (X3 and Wolverine Origins) were hated.

Fantastic Four on the other hand...

People also don't shit on Sony for Raimi's Spider-Man. They shit on Sony because of the Garfield reboot, which was unnecessary and also just not very good movies.


Wow. Just wow.

In that post you quoted, I did acknowledge that superhero movies get bigger budgets. You just conveniently ignored it or deleted it without reading it.

I said in the portion of that quote you deleted that movies are a business. Their goal is to make money. The in-demand movies are the highest selling and therefore get the biggest budget. Superheroes are in demand right now, and so they get the biggest budgets. This is the way business works. You don't give a big budget to a movie that isn't going to have a huge box office return. That's just stupid. Yes, some smaller movies may be "better quality" (which in entirely subjective) but they aren't going to have big box offices and therefore cannot return a profit on a big budget.

DaveyJoe

Yes, I know. I mentioned X-Men and Spider-Man as Fox and Sony's successes, which were instrumental in getting the comic book trend going and paving the way for movies like Iron Man.

taffer

Actually that is only part of what you said. You also said we love to shit on them now. That's what I was pointing out as being wrong because we don't love to shit on them. We might shit on them when they do something bad (X3, Wolverine Origins, Spider-Man 3, ASM reboot) but when a company does something bad they deserve to be shit on. We still love the good that they do (the rest of the X-Men and Spidey movies).

Also the comic book movie trend really began with Blade. Everyone forgets that, I guess because most people don't think of Blade as the traditional comic book superhero.

HN

DaveyJoe

Around here we love to shit on anything that isn't Marvel. We don't keep an open mind with Fox, Sony, or WB's movies like we do with Marvel. We know the next Marvel movie will be good because "they have a great track record" but everybody is shitting on the Fantastic Four reboot before having seen any footage. That's just the way it is, only Marvel gets the benefit of the doubt around here, but I think they can be just as hit and miss as any other studio putting out comic book movies.

I didn't forget about Blade, I figured somebody would bring it up, but it wasn't marketed or well known as a comic book property. Blade was marketed as a dark, rated R action/horror, it was selling to a completely different audience than something like Spider-Man. Did Blade open with the Marvel stinger we know so well? If Blade was successful for paving the way we'd have more rated R comic book movies for adults, like Deadpool or The Punisher. Instead comic book movies have followed the template of PG-13 adventure like Spider-Man and X-Men, which is why I say those are the films that really kicked off the trend.

superdeluxe

Its because TASM 2 wasnt very good. No one craps on Raimi/Tobey Spider Man (Although part 3 wasn't the best)

superdeluxe

I thought this board liked X-Men DOFP + the hardon here for the Nolan Batman films has been pretty well established.

rocket1312

Wow yourself. I saw what you wrote and didn't quote it because it wasn't relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Let me try to break this down easily for you:

1. I'm trying to highlight the difference between low budget movies and big budget movies because you keep going on about how there are hundreds of movies made each year and how superhero movies are just a drop in the bucket. Of course that's true. Everyone knows that. What I'm saying is that a lot of these hundreds of films are lower budget, independent, and foreign films. Superhero movies are in no way shape or form hindering my enjoyment or access to those kinds of movies. They're apples and oranges. When considering superhero movies and their saturation level in the market place, it makes more sense to consider the genre's place within the world of big budget, Hollywood popcorn films, of which there are way fewer than 500 or 600. Forget about all of those other movies. They're not relevant to the conversation.

2. My frustration with superhero films is that I feel like they currently make up an abnormally large percentage of said big budget Hollywood popcorn films. As much as like them, sometimes I want something different. Mountain Dew is my favorite soda, but sometimes it's nice to be able to have a root beer. The problem is, the big studios aren't making a whole lot of root beer right now. Sure there is plenty of wine and beer and juice for me to choose from, but I want a soda damn it! With the studios concentrating so many of their dollars on superhero movies, I feel like I'm being deprived of other quality non-superhero, big budget, fare. For example, take a film like Inception. It's not a film I love, but it's one I like. However, despite it not quite living up to my high expectations, I remember walking out of the theater specifically thinking that if every big summer blockbuster were as original and engaging as I found it to be, then I'd be a happy man. The problem of course is that despite it's huge success, Warner Brothers isn't making a whole lot of new, original, big budget blockbusters in a similar vein. Instead they're making like 17 DC movies in the next 5 years. Who knows, maybe they will be great. Maybe I will love them like I love Mountain Dew. I hope so. That doesn't change the fact that it in the next 5 years Warner Brothers isn't going to be making much root beer.

3. I get that superheroes make big money and that they're in demand right now. I never said that studios shouldn't be devoting resources to making them. That's capitalism. I get it. All I'm saying is that I'm starting to grow weary of the genre. For me, sometimes less is more. That's it. Me. Not anyone else. Me. I'm not saying that the superhero industry is going to crash and burn. All I'm saying is that I feel this way, and that there are probably others who do as well. There might also be others who feel this way a year from now, or in two years. I don't know. I don't really care. I'm talking about me.

Please remember that I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on the genre. I'm just sharing my personal experience. There's no reason for everyone to get all huffy about it. Some of you feel differently and probably couldn't sleep last night because you were so excited about yesterday's news. That's fine. I'm happy for you. I wish I was that excited. I used to be. Few films got my nerd blood pumping like X2 and Batman Begins, but at this point I just can't muster up that same level of excitement anymore.

mcnabb

Yes. Most Superhero movies do nothing for me these days. Atleast Superman (1978) TRIED to give the viewer some drama, some comedy, some memorable one liners, while today its all about bigger is better. People talk more about the CGI, the action, etc, and those movies will be forgotten 10 years from now. There are some good Superhero movies in the past 10-15 years (Nolan's Batman, Raimi Spiderman, XMen), but a majority are flavor of the month.

Mike86

I guess I like Marvel Studios best because basically all of their films have been solid and there hasn't been a real miss in my opinion. Fox has done an overall decent job with the X-Men films but I think that's more because the casts and crews involved in those films have been good. The Fantastic Four films on the other hand are just shit. Sony has been so-so. I've liked the Spider-Man films except Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man was just okay. The Ghost Rider films are shit too though. I was a fan of what Warner/DC were doing until they felt the need to try and blow their load and rush to play catch up with Marvel. Now they just come off as a joke sort of and I have no faith that the films they're making will be very good.

DaveyJoe

Yeah, WB produced 3 awesome Batman movies and a pretty solid Superman movie but everybody here treats the upcoming DCU movies like a joke, we don't give them the benefit of the doubt like we do with Marvel. We're not keeping an open mind and waiting to see footage, many folks here are assuming that they're going to suck.

superdeluxe

Because there is no track record with the DCU, DCU is brand new. Marvel gets a pass because the MCU phase 1 & phase 2 has a whole has worked and done its job.

So I think its fair that Marvel gets a pass, while people are unsure of DC (in regards to the DCU)

Pretty big difference between the DCU & the MCU.

DaveyJoe

WB has a track record, they produced four good super hero movies in a row, I don't see why that doesn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Why would quality suddenly plummet now that the films are going to be connected?

fumanstan

For what it's worth, the reaction to Man of Steel was most certainly mixed so there's a good chunk of an audience that didn't care for it and would be wary of building off of it. Plus, they also failed with Green Lantern. Ignoring a small vocal minority that disliked Dark Knight Rises, there's a few misses in there that are more noticable then that of Marvel.

DaveyJoe

I forgot about Green Lantern. I know it's all subjective but I think Man of Steel got similar feedback to Iron Man 2, which got a lot of hate. It just seems like people are more forgiving of Marvel around here.

Tom Creo

Fuckin' Awesome!

stingermck

I love the argument that Marvel has a proven track record and all DC/WB has is Man of Steel.

At one point all Marvel had was Iron Man.

superdeluxe

Vince always had the best animated faces

DaveyJoe

When Marvel announced Iron Man, Thor, Captain America and Avengers everybody lost their shit and got hyped, despite no track record. When WB announced Batman V Superman, Aquaman, Justice League, MOS 2, people called them a joke.

superdeluxe

I think the difference is between the MCU & the DCU. Nolan Batman is in a different world from MOS.

THe DCU is brand new, no track record. MCU as a whole has worked, yes there has been some bumps in that road, but there has been more good ones than bad ones. So they have a track record for the MCU in regards to Phase 1 and Phase 2.

Of course WB had great films with the Nolan films, I liked MOS. But they are not interconnected with each other.

Solid Snake

I love good movies. I don't give a shit about the WB vs. Marvel. I am more attracted to Marvel cuz they're doing right with what they have. I loved the Nolan flicks, flawed as they got sometimes. I like about 60% of Man of Steel.

But that doesn't stop me from being critical of the DC or Marvel related media. Thor is the weakest solo film franchise in Marvel, I do like the character though. Jane Foster is stereotypical and sets back women as a role model. Whedon needs to up his visuals. Man of Steel had a great concept from what one can see in it but it has no soul, it doesn't inspire. Goyer is an idea man. Not a great script guy. Zack Snyder can make amazing visuals that push what is expected in terms of technical presentation but doesn't succeed at creating personalities of depth. Marvel needs to have villains with depth who aren't named Loki.

Some of us LOVE a certain "faction" here but some of us will shit on them as well like any other film. I may love the MCU but I will criticize them for the shit they failed with.

I love good cinema more than I love the MCU or the DCU (is that the official name for them?)

stingermck

Did Marvel announce all those at one time? My memory is fuzzy but I just recall Iron Man and Hulk. I thought it wasnt until after Iron Man's success there was Avengers talk.

Solid Snake

it was after IM.