Gizmo

Why do you think Warner and Paramount have those Double-Triple-Quad packs? All the unsold discs can be slapped in some sort of package and be sold at a discount price. Seems to work well (I often replace my single releases with those packs.)

Why So Blu?

It was more like 2 years later. I imported that film, too, and it was money well spent.

bruceames

Blu-ray is mainstream but it's still DVD's little brother and always will be. It's a unique format that comes along and has enough success to hang around,
but not enough to become the preferred format. And it's window of opportunity has ended now that digital is picking up steam. So that's why studios are losing interest in Blu-ray catalog. With DVD, they have DVD-r for the obscure stuff and they churn out hundreds on new catalog every year. Blu-ray is married to pressed discs because BD-r is less stable and is incompatible with many players, so it doesn't have that flexibility of releasing, say, 50 copies of a movie.

Josh Z

Again, don't buy them if you don't think they're worth the money. Spend your dollars elsewhere. You have no special entitlement to get these discs on sale just because you don't want to pay full price.

rocket1312

Ignoring the fact that this is not true, the reason is because all of Twilight Time's costs are up front. They pay the studio however many thousands of dollars for the rights to release 3000 copies. It's up to Twilight Time to then sell as many as possible and get their money back. That's why the studios like the model. It's money in hand for them no matter how well something sells. I forget what the exact number is, but there's a very specific break even point for them at $30 per unit. If Twilight Time discounts their titles, their break even point becomes less and less attainable. Their are no economies of scale for them.

My only problem with the business model is that the "limited edition" nature of the product causes panic in the streets with a certain segment of the blu-ray buying public. There are many out there who would have no interest in the titles if they were in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart, but because they are limited they feel compelled to purchase them out of fear of missing out. It totally works in Twilight Time's favor (and I don't begrudge them that), but it does lead to artificially quick sell outs once titles get below a certain number.

TheDuke

And who knows how many of those get flipped on ebay.

slop101

Argument isn't about me and what I'm willing to pay. Don't know why you keep going that route. For example, take Criterion, who also has to pay studios for rights, also for niche, catalog titles, and most times they add their own supplements and improve the A/V. Yet they make money, don't have to do limited runs and street prices for their releases are way lower than TT. Why can one company make it work, and the the other can't?

PfR73

Criterion has been around for 30 years; I'm sure when they started out home video licensing was a lot less expensive. They have been able to build up the infrastructure & capital to release on a larger scale. Twilight Time is two guys doing this on the side. They have to do it in the way they can afford.

slop101

Didn't realize it was that tiny of an operation.

Josh Z

The reality of the situation is that many of these titles would not be released on Blu-ray at all if not for Twilight Time. The major studios have licensed these titles out because they don't believe they'll be profitable enough to merit Blu-ray releases through normal distribution channels with all the overhead costs that come from that.

If you're a big fan of one or more of these movies and feel that your life would be incomplete without owning it, suck it up and pay the $30. It's not like they're asking $100 for it. Although $30 is on the high end of Blu-ray pricing, is it really that unreasonable for a movie you love?

If you don't love the movie, and are only lukewarm on it or have a moderate interest in checking it out, and feel that $30 is more than it's worth to you, spend your money on something else. In that situation, you don't really need to own that movie at all, do you?

Quite frankly, I think that people have just gotten spoiled by the way studios have devalued catalog titles and now expect all of them to be dumped on the market at bargain bin prices. While that was a great way for many of us to bulk up our collections, it simply wasn't sustainable. The market for this product has collapsed. If studios can't find a way to make catalog titles profitable again, they simply won't sell them anymore.

Josh Z

Also, Criterion has managed to build up a mystique and a cachet around its branding. They have followers who will buy up every new release sight unseen simply because the name Criterion is on the label. While people can certainly debate the merits of certain titles (yeah, we know, Armageddon is a joke), when a movie is inducted into the Criterion Collection that usually implies a certain standard of artistic relevance and a high quality of presentation.

It has taken Criterion three decades to build that reputation, and they're still a niche label that frequently struggles to move many copies of some of their releases.

Twilight Time has a ways to go before they get to even that level.

davidh777

Yep, I was going to say the same thing: Criterion has built a huge brand as a boutique label. How else would a major media retailer create and advertise a sale around its name?

Shout! is in the middle ground--doesn't have the reputation of Criterion but unlike TT uses a traditional retail model. I'm glad their model works and I buy the titles that I want, but have no idea about their finances.

zyzzle

This discussion is most interesting and revealing... If TT is just two guys doing it on the side, I'd sure like to know what their real jobs are. They must be seriously raking in coin. But, their "doing it on the side" should mean in some sense that it's a labor of love, and just possibly making money off the releases should be the gravy for them. Getting these catalog titles out there in high-quality form should be their most satisfying and paramount goal.

Is it? I'm getting such mixed signals, as are others on this board.

rocket1312

Don't forget that Criterion is basically the home video division of Janus Films. Janus owns distribution rights to arguably the most prestigious collection of classic "world cinema" in the United States. Twilight Time may have a handful of A+ titles, but on average its catalog can't hold a candle to Criterion's.

I'm convinced that if it weren't for all of the horror fiends losing their shit over Fright Night, Night of the Living Dead, and Christine, most of us wouldn't even know that Twilight Time exists. They'd basically be no different than someone like Cohen Media.

Adam Tyner

Nick Redman does a lot of music restoration (mostly/entirely? for Fox), and he and Brian Jamieson first got in business together selling limited edition releases of film soundtracks. Twilight Time uses the same limited edition model that had been a success for them for a couple of decades.

PhantomStranger

I think that is largely correct. The mainstream Blu-ray Internet buyer would have never heard of Twilight Time without a few critical releases. No one at the time, even Sony, knew the frenzy that Fright Night would set off. Sony vastly underestimated its Blu-ray market. It got so much publicity that Walmart added Fright Night on DVD to its store shelves.

jwstl

It has nothing to do with the film selection but everything to do with these "limited editions". If they weren't limited we wouldn't be hearing about them. Most of the titles would eventually be $10 catalog discs if they were released by Sony, WB etc. Cohen Media is putting out some good discs and they can be had for reasonable prices because they aren't limited. Put something in a limited edition and people want it even if it isn't worth the asking price. I'm not knocking them or the buyers; they found a business model that works and to each buyer his own as they say. If they put out a title I wanted really badly I'd even consider buying one.

BuckNaked2k

Twilight Time can keep releasing their $30 limited-edition discs to their heart's content, and I can keep downloading them off torrent sites for $0.

Why So Blu?

The only TT title have is Christine.

Gizmo

Who told you that story? Was it from Blu-ray.com?

Gizmo

Amen.

clckworang

I'm very tempted to purchase Wild at Heart and Alfredo Garcia, but I think I might just import them instead ... Does anyone know if the Twilight Time transfers are any better than what's been released in other regions?

thetao

This is similar to my perspective. Limited, 3000-copy runs exist solely as a sales gimmick by Twilight Time. Universal and Sony and whoever else, isn't holding a gun to their head. Otherwise, how has Criterion (which also releases major catalog titles) manged to operate unscathed? I'm sure the studios would love for TT to sell as many copies as they possibly can, as it's likely more money for them (contract depending). I don't begrudge TT their sales model, I just want to see movie fans (and for that matter TT) discuss the situation HONESTLY.

I don't have a problem with $35 Blu-rays. (I wish they were cheaper, but things cost what they cost.) I own a handful of import DVD's that were roughly as much. I do have a problem with somebody telling me I need to buy now. I have just a small Blu-Ray collection, and Wild at Heart is the first TT title I've seriously considered. But I'd already budgeted ~$150 for this credit card cycle, for OOP DVD's that (for the most part) I am just now realizing exist. I might be willing to pay $35 for Wild at Heart in 2015 or 2016, but...oh right...they'll be gone in two months. I'll likely debate Wild at Heart until the question becomes moot. IMHO, limited edition runs ultimately hurt everybody.

If we're agreed that catalog titles, whatever the format, sell very poorly today, I would much prefer a crowdsourcing or bounty-style model. Maybe a studio provides a list of titles they are considering releasing and asks fans to vote for their favorites. The most popular get moved to another list that requests a credit card number, and once they've reached 1000 buyers (or whatever threshold), a batch is made. If a particular title isn't popular enough, then maybe it goes MOD or is offered to an outside studio or doesn't get made at all. When a title sells out, it goes back on the credit card list, and another 1000 cards makes another batch. Yes, there's some back-end web development involved, but that's largely a one-time fee. This seems like the best of all worlds, keeping titles in print and sparing me from at least a few DVD-R's. Comments?

zyzzle

Right... Thankfully torrents obviate the "limited edition" model, and may give some of us who "miss" the limited opportunity to buy a FRIGHT NIGHT or CHRISTINE the chance to see the films in 1080p glory. A 'last resort', but one nonetheless.

nitin77

Alfredo Garcia has been confirmed to be from the same master used on the Spanish and Italian releases but the TT release has a higher bitrate transfer. Whether that matters depends on many things, including personal preference.

FWIW, I own the italian release and think it has no compression issues worth noting, most the issues worth mentioning are probably source related.

As for Wild at Heart, the 1st UK release has a botched 5.1 track and the 2,d UK release doesnt even have a 5.1 track. Blacks are also off. I dont know if the TT release addresses those issues.