DVD Josh

http://www.videobusiness.com/article...8&catType=NEWS

MAY 16 | Talks in Japan aimed at unifying the two leading high-definition formats broke down early Monday without reaching a solution, according to sources who tracked the discussions closely from the U.S.

Although new talks could still be scheduled, sources in both the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD camps said they now see little choice but to proceed on the assumption that a compromise will not be worked out.

The sources said principle HD DVD developer Toshiba formally broke off the talks in response to the Blu-ray camp's refusal to budge on critical technical points.

At issue between the camps is the location of the data layer within the disc, a feature that determines the overall disc structure and dictates important aspects of the manufacturing process.

Blu-ray Discs place the data layer only 0.1 mm from the surface, which allows the laser to be focused into a tight spot of light, allowing more data to be encoded on the surface.

HD DVD places the data layer 0.6 mm below the surfaced, just as with conventional DVDs. That allows the discs to be manufactured on existing equipment.

Toshiba's top negotiator, Yoshihide Fujii, told the Japanese newspaper Nihon Keizai, "Unifying the formats based on 0.1 mm would be extremely difficult at this stage."

Dazed

Hopefully they will get it sorted out still. Will be hard though as I cant see The HD people wishing to convert all their facilities to Blue Ray, and Sony may be too stubborn to back down now.

M Polo

Well this stinks, really is going to muff the market up at the time of release..

Here's to the existance of standard DVD's while this battle works itself out because until then I won't be buying into it.

Breakfast with Girls

Well, that's not surprising.

DthRdrX

This was considered by most in the industry to be the last date they would be able to work this out by. Sad to see the greed.

I'll gladly buy the format which is better at launch, probably BR. I've waited long enough to get some more HD material. I won't buy both as it just helps both sides of the format war.

sracer

I agree. What I DID find surprising was the talk that a converged standard was being discussed.

Fok

With 2 formats, wouldn't the consumer have access to the same movies?

Mr. Salty

No. Back when DIVX and open DVD were battling it out, several studios woould release their films only on DIVX discs.

Studios are already taking sides, and at the very least I wouldn't expect Sony to release its films in the the format of its competitor.

DthRdrX

Not if you mean the same movies on both formats.

Hd-dvd is being backed primarily by Warner, Paramount and Universal. Blue-Ray has Columbia TriStar, Disney, and MGM's vault. Fox has never decided on one format to support but most suspect they will go with Sony.

Mike Lowrey

Theorectically yes, technically no. (I think.) Because this battle is being fought along studio lines, some on the Blu-Ray side, others on the HD-DVD sides, there'll be certain movies come out on one format and not the other depending of course which studio makes (or has the rights to) the particular movie.

If the two formats can't decide on which technology to ultimately go with, then consumers will have to have a player for each format, which will of course make the average J6P say, "F! it." and stick with standard DVD. For the die-hards, they'll be forced to buy a player for each style, and probably shopping for certain titles would get cumbersome, which of course, more or less, killed Sony's Beta-Max format in the early '80s. Was Beta a superior tape format? Yes, why did it fail and VHS win over? Limited support by the studios. VHS has a 240i res, while Beta had slightly higher, didn't it? 280 or so?

JayHM

What are the chances of players being dual-format (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD)?

darkside

Eventually yes, but that will take at least a year to happen. This is bad for consumers and I refuse to get involved till the market or the companies involved sort it out.

DthRdrX

Beta was a superior format, but I think it was a matter of simple ergonomics that killed it. As a home recorder VHS offered people around an extra half hour or so, I believe, of recording space. As you mentioned, Sony did not have the full support of all the studios either. As VHS became more popular prices came down ousting Beta from the home video scene. Beta was quite popular in broadcasting though.

DthRdrX

Samsung seems to have a lot of interest in being the company that brings a dual player to the market first. Just something I picked up over the last few months.

Big Worms

Terrible news. They were heading in the right direction. But you could see it coming.

gutwrencher

I'm far from a J6P...and I still say "fuck it".

While they battle and fight it out...I'm more than happy with getting a dvd release. It's back to the same thing I said before...I'll sit back off the front lines and let them waste time.

sracer

I think that was a foreshadowing of things to come... adoption of BR and/or HD will be what separates the J6P from the "truly enlightened ones" (tm).

If there will indeed be 2 competing standards, then I too will be sitting it out and wait for the format AFTER HD/BR. Both sides are ready to go toe-to-toe. Any eventual victor will be only after 1000's of titles (combined) have been released. When the dust settles, there will be 100's of titles only available in the losing format. How long will it take for those titles to be re-released (if ever) in the "winning" format?

JayHM

I don't think it's like Beta/VHS, where the two formats didn't even share the same physical characteristics. If dual format players are indeed being planned, is it that hard to believe that these will become the norm, and studios will continue with their own formats indefinitely?

DVD Polizei

That's fine with me. Fuck'em. And I think we should all email them the same message. I can live with the current standard for another decade. They sound like a bunch of 2-yr olds.

Take your time guys. I sure as hell don't give a shit.

cajun_junky

Looks like DVDs will remain the standard for some time to come. I for one, as others have mentioned, will not buy into the technology until a standard is reached. The hobby is too expensive to guess and roll the dice.

If there is no compromise then down the road, there will be a dual format player.....bet on it.

Dazed

I dont even plan on buying a High Def TV for a while so am in no rush.

Sonic

Yo man i say the same thing.

sracer

I love it! That sums it up nicely.

Dual format players will have to pay licensing fees to TWO parties. That alone will make them more expensive than dedicated players. Also consider the fact that both sides want to win, not just co-exist. I'm sure that early licensing agreements will require that the players support only the one format being licensed.

The only scenario that I can envision where dual format players become available is if an overwhelming majority of consumers sit on the sidelines and refuse to buy either format. If the survival of both formats is at stake, then I can see them accomodating dual format players.

DthRdrX

Just to stir the pot,

Sony's PS3 was announced today to feature a BR-drive using full 1080P HD, supporting 2x HDMI out, an AV analog out, and Digital Audio out connections. The drive will also be compatible with PS1, PS2, SACD, and standard dvd.

"PS3 combines state-of-the-art technologies featuring Cell, a processor jointly developed by IBM, Sony Group and Toshiba Corporation, graphics processor (RSX) co-developed by NVIDIA Corporation and SCEI, and XDR memory developed by Rambus Inc. It also adopts BD-ROM (Blu-ray Disc ROM) with maximum storage capacity of 54 GB (dual layer), enabling delivery of entertainment content in full high-definition (HD) quality, under a secure environment made possible through the most advanced copyright protection technology. To match the accelerating convergence of digital consumer electronics and computer technology, PS3 supports high quality display in resolution of 1080p(*) as standard, which is far superior to 720p/1080i."

yahoo.com


The funny thing is that Toshiba will be collecting fees off the cell technology used.

Big Worms

Amen to that!