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Old 02-16-14, 09:34 PM   #326
Osiris3657
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Finished "Dragons" tonight. Really enjoyed it. Tormund is a riot.

Also...
Spoiler:
nooooo not Jon!


So, the question is do you guys
Spoiler:
think Jon is actually dead? So far I've read the following theories: that Jon becomes a part of Ghost since he's a warg or that Melisandre brings him back to life.
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Old 02-17-14, 07:06 AM   #327
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
Not sure your point.
His point is they know him personally. Have probably begged him but know he has all the leverage.
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Old 02-17-14, 08:45 AM   #328
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris3657 View Post
So, the question is do you guys
Spoiler:
think Jon is actually dead? So far I've read the following theories: that Jon becomes a part of Ghost since he's a warg or that Melisandre brings him back to life.
I wish. But no, I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if the lord of light played a part in that.
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Old 02-17-14, 11:45 AM   #329
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

You wish because
Spoiler:
you don't like Jon or because GRRM needs to quit teasing deaths and just permanently kill characters off?
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Old 02-20-14, 05:07 PM   #330
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris3657 View Post
You wish because
Spoiler:
you don't like Jon or because GRRM needs to quit teasing deaths and just permanently kill characters off?
I have seen the latter opinion elsewhere which I find amusing given the record from the first 3 books.

Spoiler:
Though I do agree that it is quite doubtful that he is dead, I see him as one of the few characters guaranteed to make it to the final book, along with Tyrion, Arya and Dany. I wouldn't worry about the body count though, I have this little feeling that the cast will be thinned come the conclusion of Winds of Winter
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Old 02-20-14, 06:05 PM   #331
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Spoiler:
I feel like Jon definitely has more to do in the story, I am confident he'll return, but I'm not sure in what capacity. I expect he'll warg into Ghost for a while(foreshadowed by the ADWD prologue) but I'm not sure if he'll be able to return to human form after that. Varamyr is a more powerful warg and he wasn't able to successfully warg the woman from his prologue. Or maybe Jon will survive the assassination attempt!
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Old 02-20-14, 06:40 PM   #332
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Spoiler:
I think the warging may remain with Bran and not become an ability for the other Starks but you never know. I think Melisandre will revive him myself, win another convert to the cause. We need his POV there for when the White Walkers finally attack the wall so he certainly can't die or remain alive by living in Ghost. Need him human and fighting.
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Old 02-20-14, 07:44 PM   #333
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSkip View Post
Spoiler:
I think the warging may remain with Bran and not become an ability for the other Starks but you never know. I think Melisandre will revive him myself, win another convert to the cause. We need his POV there for when the White Walkers finally attack the wall so he certainly can't die or remain alive by living in Ghost. Need him human and fighting.
Spoiler:
All of the Stark kids have latent warging abilities. It starts with the dreams, which Jon and Arya both had, Robb probably did too we just never got his POV. in ADWD Arya directly warged into the cat when she was blind to find out the Kindly Man was the one poking her. Bran is just the most powerful warg, probably because of his disability, like losing one sense makes the others stronger. Jon had the ability the warg, he just hasn't mastered it yet, and I think the Varamyr prologue was directly foreshadowing Jon's situation, he even mentioned Jon a few times, saying how sweet it would be to have a direwolf to warg into.
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Old 02-20-14, 08:28 PM   #334
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
Spoiler:
All of the Stark kids have latent warging abilities. It starts with the dreams, which Jon and Arya both had, Robb probably did too we just never got his POV. in ADWD Arya directly warged into the cat when she was blind to find out the Kindly Man was the one poking her. Bran is just the most powerful warg, probably because of his disability, like losing one sense makes the others stronger. Jon had the ability the warg, he just hasn't mastered it yet, and I think the Varamyr prologue was directly foreshadowing Jon's situation, he even mentioned Jon a few times, saying how sweet it would be to have a direwolf to warg into.
Spoiler:
I still see everyone other than Bran having more... direct means of dealing with their problems in the future, warging being more of an accidental effect than anything else as there is not anyone to train them to use it at will. Besides, I feel GRRM will want to continue to keep magic more subdued, the kids going around warging at will would seem to go against that.
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Old 02-21-14, 09:23 AM   #335
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSkip View Post
Spoiler:
I still see everyone other than Bran having more... direct means of dealing with their problems in the future, warging being more of an accidental effect than anything else as there is not anyone to train them to use it at will. Besides, I feel GRRM will want to continue to keep magic more subdued, the kids going around warging at will would seem to go against that.
Spoiler:
There are only two books left, I think magic is going to become more and more prominent, like it has in each subsequent book. Like I said, Arya has all ready actively warged, and Jon has always had more direct means of dealing with his problems, but being stabbed to death is a pretty big one that might merit some warging. If he doesn't warg into Ghost, what was the point of the Varamyr prologue?
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Old 02-21-14, 09:26 AM   #336
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Spoiler:
IMO, Jon will be back. Killing him was a way of getting him out of his oath with the Watch. Once he's brought back, he can leave and join the fight down south.
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Old 02-21-14, 09:30 AM   #337
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Spoiler:
IMO, Jon will be back. Killing him was a way of getting him out of his oath with the Watch. Once he's brought back, he can leave and join the fight down south.
Spoiler:
I think GRRM wanted him out of the way so the Others could steam roll the Night's Watch and invade Westeros. Why is Jon needed down south? Everything he's done has lead to his understanding that the war up North is more important than politics. He all ready turned down a chance to take Winterfell. He has a role to play, but it's in the war of Ice and Fire, not for the Iron Throne.
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Old 02-21-14, 09:34 AM   #338
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
Spoiler:
I think GRRM wanted him out of the way so the Others could steam roll the Night's Watch and invade Westeros. Why is Jon needed down south? Everything he's done has lead to his understanding that the war up North is more important than politics. He all ready turned down a chance to take Winterfell. He has a role to play, but it's in the war of Ice and Fire, not for the Iron Throne.
Spoiler:
Maybe saying joining the fight in the south is incorrect. My main point was that killing him was a method of allowing him to leave the Watch without breaking an oath. I feel that he'll be a pivotal character throughout the rest of the story and will not stay dead.
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Old 02-21-14, 09:42 AM   #339
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Spoiler:
Maybe saying joining the fight in the south is incorrect. My main point was that killing him was a method of allowing him to leave the Watch without breaking an oath. I feel that he'll be a pivotal character throughout the rest of the story and will not stay dead.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I agree that he has more to do. I can't wait to see what happens at the wall after his assassination. You have Tormund and the Wildlings who were loyal to Jon. They outnumber the Night's Watch who are probably evenly split in loyalty, then you have the Queen's Men from Stannis' group. All hell is going to break loose!
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Old 02-21-14, 02:03 PM   #340
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris3657 View Post
You wish because
Spoiler:
you don't like Jon or because GRRM needs to quit teasing deaths and just permanently kill characters off?
Exactly.
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Old 02-21-14, 07:19 PM   #341
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSkip View Post
Spoiler:
I still see everyone other than Bran having more... direct means of dealing with their problems in the future, warging being more of an accidental effect than anything else as there is not anyone to train them to use it at will. Besides, I feel GRRM will want to continue to keep magic more subdued, the kids going around warging at will would seem to go against that.
Spoiler:
Unless Im not recalling correctly GRRM said that the power of magic is linked to the seasons and as we all know, winter is coming.
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Old 02-21-14, 10:11 PM   #342
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
Spoiler:
All of the Stark kids have latent warging abilities. It starts with the dreams, which Jon and Arya both had, Robb probably did too we just never got his POV. in ADWD Arya directly warged into the cat when she was blind to find out the Kindly Man was the one poking her. Bran is just the most powerful warg, probably because of his disability, like losing one sense makes the others stronger. Jon had the ability the warg, he just hasn't mastered it yet, and I think the Varamyr prologue was directly foreshadowing Jon's situation, he even mentioned Jon a few times, saying how sweet it would be to have a direwolf to warg into.
Spoiler:
The two elements of ASOIAF I actually dislike even hate, are warging (which I find horribly cliche and uninteresting) and resurrection( which I think was a huge mistake by GRRM to introduce in the story as it seriously diminishes the impact of death in the story) both of which are on a collision course to save Jon. Obviously Jon is not my favorite character regardless of who his father is. I actually hope Jon is just dead, and that in the end his royal heritage just didn't mean shit. That would be a great twist.
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Old 02-21-14, 10:15 PM   #343
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Power Colt-Robot Man View Post
Spoiler:
Unless Im not recalling correctly GRRM said that the power of magic is linked to the seasons and as we all know, winter is coming.
Spoiler:
It may be as well, but it is primarily linked to dragons
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Old 02-22-14, 07:52 AM   #344
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Power Colt-Robot Man View Post
Spoiler:
Unless Im not recalling correctly GRRM said that the power of magic is linked to the seasons and as we all know, winter is coming.
Spoiler:
Well, the rebirth of the dragons has made magic stronger I believe, certainly it took that for the Red Priests/Priestesses to be able to have most of their buffed abilities. But magic still needs to be learned and Sansa certainly has no one for that and I doubt the Kindly Man knows anything about warging either, as helpful as he may be on other fronts. Bran should be the primary warger in the group imo.


By the way, are we putting spoiler tags on all plot points in the series or just in ADWD material?
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Old 02-22-14, 11:44 AM   #345
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Hell if I know. I think its silly as shit to have full pages of spoiler posts in a thread discussing the series. If someone wanders in and gets something spoiled I say boo hoo. The books have been going for close to 20 years (oh fuck!) Keep up with the rest of the class.
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Old 02-22-14, 02:34 PM   #346
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

I would hope no one who cares about being spoiled would come here in the first place but taking the lead from what I've seen.
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Old 02-22-14, 03:45 PM   #347
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re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru books]

Some are still catching up on the series but I did not enter this thread until I finished A Dance with Dragons.
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Old 02-25-14, 01:48 AM   #348
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Re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru bo

I've updated the thread title to help reduce the risk of any unintended spoilage.
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Old 03-07-14, 04:02 PM   #349
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Re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru bo

Still no update on the 6th book.
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Old 03-07-14, 08:08 PM   #350
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Re: A song of ice and fire [potential spoilers if watching tv show or partway thru bo

Winter will come and go again before that happens I think
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