Occupy Wall Street

[JumpCutz]

I wonder if this will gain as much traction in the media as the Tea Party.
The mainstream media seems to be burying this story thus far. No real surprise there. :lol:


"We are the 99 percent. We are occupying Wall Street. We will not be moved"


https://occupywallst.org/


Interesting Twitter feed:

http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23OccupyWallStreet

[kvrdave]

Saturday at noon is the slutwalk. Prepare to be taken seriously.

I don't see any list of what they actually want, other than that Wallstreet is bad. Anyone else see what they actual want enacted, etc?

[TheBigDave]

I wonder if this will gain as much traction in the media as the Tea Party.
The mainstream media seems to be burying this story thus far. No real surprise there. :lol:

How is MSM burying the story? I see articles about it at every major news outlet.

I agree, it would be awesome if the media covered this protest the same way they covered the Tea Party rallies.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9257/90550600.jpg

[CRM114]

I don't see any list of what they actually want, other than that Wallstreet is bad. Anyone else see what they actual want enacted, etc?

Fair taxation, for one.

hOyDR2b71ag

BTW, this woman has a future.

[Ky-Fi]

Fair taxation, for one.

hOyDR2b71ag

BTW, this woman has a future.

Man I hope Scott Brown crushes her so bad. I can't believe the sheer venom she's spewing here against people who actually create jobs. And what is this "...that the rest of us paid for" crap? Didn't the guy creating the factory also pay for the roads? Doesn't Warren also get to drive on the roads, and not have marauding bands attacking her? The difference, it seems to me, is that Warren doesn't use those to create jobs and create wealth like the entrepeneur does.

[CRM114]

Yeah, he paid $32.93. The rest of us paid $32,945,923,111.

And my god, "job creators." rotfl Because if they pay a fairer amount in taxes, they will probably just close up shop. Who is John Galt? :lol:

[Pistol Pete]

Saturday at noon is the slutwalk.
Wait, what?

This is getting interesting.

[Ky-Fi]

Yeah, he paid $32.93. The rest of us paid $32,945,923,111.

And my god, "job creators." rotfl Because if they pay a fairer amount in taxes, they will probably just close up shop. Who is John Galt? :lol:

Yeah, he paid $32.93, and how much is he putting back into the economy via the salary he pays his workers and all the subsequent taxes they all put back into the coffer? How much does Warren put back into the system while taking a salary from tax-exempt Harvard? And she's the one who's indignant and outraged. :lol:

[CRM114]

That's the argument for not paying a bit more in taxes in time of massive debt and war? Waaah, all mine. I'm not sure what Warren's salary has to do with it. I'm sure she pays taxes at the applicable rate. I suppose you are anti-academia? That evil Harvard!

[Ky-Fi]

That's the argument for not paying a bit more in taxes in time of massive debt and war? Waaah, all mine. I'm not sure what Warren's salary has to do with it. I'm sure she pays taxes at the applicable rate. I suppose you are anti-academia? That evil Harvard!

Let's just say I agree with what Bill Buckley had to say about being governed by the faculty of Harvard. :lol:

[wishbone]

That evil Harvard!You're a Yalie?

[Groucho]

This protest seems like a lot of work. I'd rather just sign an online petition -- it will be just as effective.

[wendersfan]

I don't see any list of what they actually want, other than that Wallstreet is bad. Anyone else see what they actual want enacted, etc?Browsing through their various sites I see very little about what they are for, but they seem to be against greed. One theme that seems to pop up consistently is opposition to home foreclosures, or, at least, the current system of foreclosures.

[Lemdog]

You're a Yalie?

My guess is University of Pennsylvania, possibly Brown.

[wishbone]

http://i54.tinypic.com/nyi8hz.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2yuenfk.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/3143tw4.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/66jc07.jpg

[starman9000]

My favorite line about this so far has been: "Bruner said protestors plan to present a list of demands, though they don't know when or to whom they will present them to."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/27/business/wall-street-protests/index.html

[Red Dog]

An "End the Fed" sign out there. Hmmmm. Maybe these folks and the tea-partiers should get together.

[Red Dog]

My favorite line about this so far has been: "Bruner said protestors plan to present a list of demands, though they don't know when or to whom they will present them to."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/27/business/wall-street-protests/index.html

You'd figure the slaves would know who their masters are. Or just have that one dude present it to Satan.

[wendersfan]

My guess is University of Pennsylvania, possibly Brown.
Penn State, IIRC.

[Tracer Bullet]

Man I hope Scott Brown crushes her so bad. I can't believe the sheer venom she's spewing here against people who actually create jobs. And what is this "...that the rest of us paid for" crap? Didn't the guy creating the factory also pay for the roads? Doesn't Warren also get to drive on the roads, and not have marauding bands attacking her? The difference, it seems to me, is that Warren doesn't use those to create jobs and create wealth like the entrepeneur does.

Yeah, that's kind of her whole point, we're all in this together, except the rich have convinced us all that they pay too much in tax and should get all kinds of breaks because they're "job creators" except that no one can get said jobs because all the "job creators" instead of creating jobs are piling money in their Scrooge McDuck vaults and sitting on their hands and/or taunting poor protesters by toasting them with champagne from their balconies overlooking Wall Street.

Anyway, I'ma go back to lurking again, this shit is depressing. But cut the bullshit, seriously.

[Thor Simpson]

I was just wondering where you've been, Tracer. Don't lurk too long!

[kvrdave]

Not to worry, I will draw him out, Thor! :lol:

Yeah, that's kind of her whole point, we're all in this together, except the rich have convinced us all that they pay too much in tax and should get all kinds of breaks because they're "job creators" except that no one can get said jobs because all the "job creators" instead of creating jobs are piling money in their Scrooge McDuck vaults and sitting on their hands and/or taunting poor protesters by toasting them with champagne from their balconies overlooking Wall Street.

Anyway, I'ma go back to lurking again, this shit is depressing. But cut the bullshit, seriously.

My biggest problem with this is that the government decides certain things should be subsidized because the government knows what industry we should be in. So they give lots of money to wind energy. Then GE gets into wind energy and makes big bucks, and with the subsidies, they pay no taxes. Then the government complains that the big corporations aren't paying any taxes.

Another example. My great state of Washington wanted to encourage crappy cars. So if you bought a hybrid or an electric car, you didn't pay any sales tax on it. Now they are complaining that we aren't selling as much gas as we use to so their tax revenue from it is going down and they want to add a fee to those types of car sales to make up for what they lose in gas taxes.

The FACT is that we have the highest corporate tax around (at least one of the highest), but we also have a government that continually wants to get in there and "lead" us to new technology, etc. which makes a huge gap in what different corporations pay, but now the government wants everyone to pay their "fair" share, which the only reason they don't is because of all the meddling by government.

So what is the answer to all of this? Raise the taxes, which will actually not accomplish anything because of the subsidies and the fact that people like Warren Buffet make their money off of capital gains and not earned income. So we'll all cry about the rich, we'll come up with a grand solution, and it will actually do nothing but harm small corporations who don't get into the golden projects the government deems as worthy.

People keep blaming the corporations on this, but they are just using the rules the governments hands down. We ought to blame the government for their constant fucking with the system which allows this to go on. Get rid of all that, and corporations will pay more.

[kvrdave]

Fair taxation, for one.

hOyDR2b71ag

BTW, this woman has a future.

What does this nutty cunt actually propose? Currently the tax rate on corporations is

Taxable income Tax rate

$ 0 $ 50,000 15%
50,000 75,000 25%
75,000 100,000 34%
100,000 335,000 39%
335,000 10,000,000 34%
10,000,000 15,000,000 35%
15,000,000 18,333,333 38%
18,333,333 .......... 35%


She's a fucking wack job who hasn't done anything to actually create a job in her life. Has she ever ran a company? Is she talking about stopping liberal social engineering in the tax system or does she still want to give subsidies to flower power? She's a stupid commie cunt.

[Groucho]

I disagree with the notion that these people are not "job creators". I would argue that they are creating more jobs than ever. Jobs in China, jobs in India, jobs in Mexico...

[Ky-Fi]

Yeah, that's kind of her whole point, we're all in this together, except the rich have convinced us all that they pay too much in tax and should get all kinds of breaks because they're "job creators" except that no one can get said jobs because all the "job creators" instead of creating jobs are piling money in their Scrooge McDuck vaults and sitting on their hands and/or taunting poor protesters by toasting them with champagne from their balconies overlooking Wall Street.

Anyway, I'ma go back to lurking again, this shit is depressing. But cut the bullshit, seriously.


I suppose one can debate whether "the rich" sit on their money like Scrooge McDuck or use it to create jobs. But Warren's rant wasn't against "the rich" in general----it was specifically about people who have a "great idea" and "start a factory".

[Mabuse]

She also asserts that no one ever got rich on their own. She has a very old fashioned mind set that the only road to riches is building a factory. I know lawyers and real estate brokers who have become rich with nothing more than a telephone and their big mouths...maybe one assistant.

[kvrdave]

She also asserts that no one ever got rich on their own. She has a very old fashioned mind set that the only road to riches is building a factory. I know lawyers and real estate brokers who have become rich with nothing more than a telephone and their big mouths...maybe one assistant.

No, they drove on roads that WE paid for and breathed air that WE paid for.

[Tracer Bullet]

I suppose one can debate whether "the rich" sit on their money like Scrooge McDuck or use it to create jobs. But Warren's rant wasn't against "the rich" in general----it was specifically about people who have a "great idea" and "start a factory".

Yeah, fart, whatever. It's becoming blindingly clear to all but the most hackiest of apologists what has been going on in the country (hell, in the world) over the past 60 odd years.

The rich rigged the system, they got theirs, and now the rest of us can go screw. Seriously, watch the video of the Wall Streeters who are literally hanging out on a balcony drinking champagne and laughing at the proles in the street below them.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not to worry, I will draw him out, Thor! :lol:



My biggest problem with this is that the government decides certain things should be subsidized because the government knows what industry we should be in. So they give lots of money to wind energy. Then GE gets into wind energy and makes big bucks, and with the subsidies, they pay no taxes. Then the government complains that the big corporations aren't paying any taxes.

Another example. My great state of Washington wanted to encourage crappy cars. So if you bought a hybrid or an electric car, you didn't pay any sales tax on it. Now they are complaining that we aren't selling as much gas as we use to so their tax revenue from it is going down and they want to add a fee to those types of car sales to make up for what they lose in gas taxes.

The FACT is that we have the highest corporate tax around (at least one of the highest), but we also have a government that continually wants to get in there and "lead" us to new technology, etc. which makes a huge gap in what different corporations pay, but now the government wants everyone to pay their "fair" share, which the only reason they don't is because of all the meddling by government.

So what is the answer to all of this? Raise the taxes, which will actually not accomplish anything because of the subsidies and the fact that people like Warren Buffet make their money off of capital gains and not earned income. So we'll all cry about the rich, we'll come up with a grand solution, and it will actually do nothing but harm small corporations who don't get into the golden projects the government deems as worthy.

People keep blaming the corporations on this, but they are just using the rules the governments hands down. We ought to blame the government for their constant fucking with the system which allows this to go on. Get rid of all that, and corporations will pay more.

You're right, it is the government's fault. I'm glad you support raising taxes on all income regardless of source.

[Ky-Fi]

Yeah, fart, whatever. It's becoming blindingly clear to all but the most hackiest of apologists what has been going on in the country (hell, in the world) over the past 60 odd years.


Mods, I'm pretty sure Tracer Bullet referred to me as "fart". :mad:

Can he please be reprimanded accordingly?

[CRM114]

Another big point in all of this is that Wall St totally fucked this country's economy, got bailed out, went on to make billions again and are now spending billions lobbying against Wall St regulations to prevent another one of these meltdowns. Now, Wall St continues as if nothing ever happened while millions of Americans have lost their homes and retirement accounts. There is little to no regulation and pretty much nothing preventing these people from doing it again. But it doesn't matter because they have theirs, they are set, and they are laughing at the rubes who are supporting them as "job creators."

Then we have Repbus who just blindly defend these blowhards and their followers go along with it. Scott Brown has raised millions and millions from Wall St to defeat Warren and to defeat Wall St regulation. Warren couldn't even be nominated to head the organization she created - the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau - because the Repubs were given their marching orders to defeat her in any governmental capacity.

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. What an abhorrent thought. Protecting consumer finance from these Wall St debacles. Why do we need it? Just let Wall St self-regulate like Ron Paul proposes. :lol:

[kvrdave]

You're right, it is the government's fault. I'm glad you support raising taxes on all income regardless of source.

I think we'd do better to simply quit subsidizing things the government deems as "worthy."

[CRM114]

Yeah, that's the problem. -rolleyes-

[Thor Simpson]

Mods, I'm pretty sure Tracer Bullet referred to me as "fart". :mad:

Can he please be reprimanded accordingly?

In fairness, you did pull his finger.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think we'd do better to simply quit subsidizing things the government deems as "worthy."

:lol: Nice to see that you haven't gotten a clue since I've been away.

[al_bundy]

Another big point in all of this is that Wall St totally fucked this country's economy, got bailed out, went on to make billions again and are now spending billions lobbying against Wall St regulations to prevent another one of these meltdowns. Now, Wall St continues as if nothing ever happened while millions of Americans have lost their homes and retirement accounts. There is little to no regulation and pretty much nothing preventing these people from doing it again. But it doesn't matter because they have theirs, they are set, and they are laughing at the rubes who are supporting them as "job creators."

Then we have Repbus who just blindly defend these blowhards and their followers go along with it. Scott Brown has raised millions and millions from Wall St to defeat Warren and to defeat Wall St regulation. Warren couldn't even be nominated to head the organization she created - the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau - because the Repubs were given their marching orders to defeat her in any governmental capacity.

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. What an abhorrent thought. Protecting consumer finance from these Wall St debacles. Why do we need it? Just let Wall St self-regulate like Ron Paul proposes. :lol:

and the people who refinanced their homes to party are totally blameless. along with the ones who decided to buy homes they couldn't afford

[kvrdave]

Yeah, that's the problem. -rolleyes-

How isn't it? You bitch about GE not paying any taxes, but you want windmills to be the new energy source, so you subsidize them, so GE doesn't pay taxes. Do you seriously not see that?

How is it that our corporate tax is higher than the rest of the world but the amount they pay is equal or lower? Obviously it isn't the rate that is the problem, but something else. I say "obviously" because it seems obvious to me, but maybe you don't see it. Do you think that simply raising the corporate tax rate to 50% (or whatever) will actually accomplish anything? Will GE suddenly pay taxes at that amount?

I say it has to do with the subsidies and other loopholes, and the rate is not the problem. You think that is wrong. So please layout your belief. What is the problem?

[CRM114]

People better wake up in the country. The middle class is disappearing, the jobs are going away, and Wall St has control of all the money. Wages are stagnant for pretty much my whole adult life. It's not going to end good. These protests actually frighten me. It's a powder keg.

[CRM114]

and the people who refinanced their homes to party are totally blameless. along with the ones who decided to buy homes they couldn't afford

Wait, I thought financial institutions approved those loans based on the ability to pay? Oh they skipped that step? Damn.

[Tracer Bullet]

People better wake up in the country. The middle class is disappearing, the jobs are going away, and Wall St has control of all the money. Wages are stagnant for pretty much my whole adult life. It's not going to end good. These protests actually frighten me. It's a powder keg.

They frighten me too, and we don't have an FDR to calm everyone the fuck down.

If Europe shits the bed we are in for some really bad times.

[Tracer Bullet]

How isn't it? You bitch about GE not paying any taxes, but you want windmills to be the new energy source, so you subsidize them, so GE doesn't pay taxes. Do you seriously not see that?

How is it that our corporate tax is higher than the rest of the world but the amount they pay is equal or lower? Obviously it isn't the rate that is the problem, but something else. I say "obviously" because it seems obvious to me, but maybe you don't see it. Do you think that simply raising the corporate tax rate to 50% (or whatever) will actually accomplish anything? Will GE suddenly pay taxes at that amount?

I say it has to do with the subsidies and other loopholes, and the rate is not the problem. You think that is wrong. So please layout your belief. What is the problem?

What the fuck are you even talking about?

[kvrdave]

:lol: Nice to see that you haven't gotten a clue since I've been away.

Seriously, I'd love to learn. Help me out. What is the answer to it?

I've said raise capital gains on individuals that make more than $1 million in capital gains, and that will take Warren Buffet off the table. I've said to quit subsidizing companies and industries, and that will get GE and other corporations to pay taxes.

All I get from you and CRM is nothing. Just raise taxes? What the hell will that actually do if we continue to subsidize shit? How will that do anything to Buffet when his income is capital gains and the tax they propose to raise is earned income?

Man, I'd really love to see your point of view here, but you don't even offer it.

[Ky-Fi]

Wait, I thought financial institutions approved those loans based on the ability to pay? Oh they skipped that step? Damn.

Yeah, Barney Frank felt that policy was overly discriminatory.

[kvrdave]

People better wake up in the country. The middle class is disappearing, the jobs are going away, and Wall St has control of all the money. Wages are stagnant for pretty much my whole adult life. It's not going to end good. These protests actually frighten me. It's a powder keg.

Hey, you still managed to actually say nothing. Fantastic. Roll your eyes and continue with offering nothing.

[CRM114]

They frighten me too, and we don't have an FDR to calm everyone the fuck down.

If Europe shits the bed we are in for some really bad times.

^ That's the problem, kvrdave. Everyone needs to quit bitching and solve the damned problems. And the people with all the money can't go running away crying about how they are the job creators.

Fine. Create some damned jobs in THIS country. Pay your taxes. Quit fighting every single thing that comes along that may possibly effect your bottom line. The problem is greed.

[kvrdave]

What the fuck are you even talking about?

How to get "the rich" or "Wall Street" to pay "their fair share."

:lol: Fuck, this is annoying.

[CRM114]

Yeah, Barney Frank felt that policy was overly discriminatory.

What? Barney Frank personally inflated people's salaries to get them loans? I thought the banks did that.

And I wasn't aware that Barney Frank personally went into Lehman Brothers and packaged these loans into derivatives backed by insurance that didn't exist! Fucking Frank!

[CRM114]

How to get "the rich" or "Wall Street" to pay "their fair share."

:lol: Fuck, this is annoying.

For some reason, the rich and Wall St is GE and windmills to you.

[Tracer Bullet]

Seriously, I'd love to learn. Help me out. What is the answer to it?

I've said raise capital gains on individuals that make more than $1 million in capital gains, and that will take Warren Buffet off the table. I've said to quit subsidizing companies and industries, and that will get GE and other corporations to pay taxes.

All I get from you and CRM is nothing. Just raise taxes? What the hell will that actually do if we continue to subsidize shit? How will that do anything to Buffet when his income is capital gains and the tax they propose to raise is earned income?

Man, I'd really love to see your point of view here, but you don't even offer it.

Um, I dunno why you have such a hard-on for subsidies. It's like we're talking about the fact that your house is on fire and all you want to talk about is the fact that the upstairs bathtub is draining slowly.

Government revenue isn't the issue here. The issue is the systematic rape of the middle-class by rich fucks who have learned how to keep whatever last bit of "wealth" is out there for themselves. It's about bankers that dreamed of incredibly risky securities and then when the shit hit the fan got bailed out with taxpayer money and 3 years later are making as much profit or more than they were then, while the little people can't afford to go to the doctor.

Things are getting bad. But if you want to keep talking about irrelevancies like government subsidies for windmills (seriously, what?) go right ahead.

[kvrdave]

^ That's the problem, kvrdave. Everyone needs to quit bitching and solve the damned problems. And the people with all the money can't go running away crying about how they are the job creators.

Fine. Create some damned jobs in THIS country. Pay your taxes. Quit fighting every single thing that comes along that may possibly effect your bottom line. The problem is greed.

And I have said how I think that could be done. You've offered up jack shit and rolled your eyes. Why don't you start by telling me where I am wrong in what I have put forward, why it is wrong, and offer something in response.

Maybe this is why you aren't getting anywhere. I've offered pretty specific things. You've offered nothing but to say I was wrong. I've even gone with pretty liberal things like raising taxes on the rich. People talk about the need to end bipartisanship and work together....I've offered stuff you should like. You don't appear to like it. But you offer nothing in response. Why should congress work any differently?

[Ky-Fi]

What? Barney Frank personally inflated people's salaries to get them loans? I thought the banks did that.

And I wasn't aware that Barney Frank personally went into Lehman Brothers and packaged these loans into derivatives backed by insurance that didn't exist! Fucking Frank!

He certainly was instrumental in the role of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the subprime loan market.

[kvrdave]

For some reason, the rich and Wall St is GE and windmills to you.

It is an example of the reason we have huge corporations who pay nothing in taxes. Seriously, how is this lost on you?

Um, I dunno why you have such a hard-on for subsidies. It's like we're talking about the fact that your house is on fire and all you want to talk about is the fact that the upstairs bathtub is draining slowly.

Government revenue isn't the issue here. The issue is the systematic rape of the middle-class by rich fucks who have learned how to keep whatever last bit of "wealth" is out there for themselves. It's about bankers that dreamed of incredibly risky securities and then when the shit hit the fan got bailed out with taxpayer money and 3 years later are making as much profit or more than they were then, while the little people can't afford to go to the doctor.

Things are getting bad. But if you want to keep talking about irrelevancies like government subsidies for windmills (seriously, what?) go right ahead.

Okay, it is all out there in front of you, and you don't see it. The rich fucks have learned how to keep their wealth by using both loopholes that they lobbied for and by the government creating new one with their ideas about what industry should happen. The rich fucks keep their money by getting into business that the government rewards because they get subsidies to do so. In so doing, they reduce their own taxes, and sometimes pay nothing.

But so far, I don't hear anyone talking here about actually doing away with the tax loopholes (subsidies and otherwise), but simply advocating raising taxes as though that will do anything to the truly wealthy without fixing the underlying problem. What good does it do to raise the taxes on people who can simply go out and get more loopholes and get into more things that are heavily subsidized? What do you think that accomplishes?

[kvrdave]

I have continued to offer two things: 1) raise capital gains to the earned income rate for those that make more than some level of their income off capital gains, and 2) get rid of loopholes and subsidies.

You guys can't seem to see how these are the things that keep the super rich super rich. The answer seems to lie in simply doing the same thing we do now, but with a higher rate, which won't do shit if you don't fix the other two things.

:gah:

[Tracer Bullet]

It is an example of the reason we have huge corporations who pay nothing in taxes. Seriously, how is this lost on you?



Okay, it is all out there in front of you, and you don't see it. The rich fucks have learned how to keep their wealth by using both loopholes that they lobbied for and by the government creating new one with their ideas about what industry should happen. The rich fucks keep their money by getting into business that the government rewards because they get subsidies to do so. In so doing, they reduce their own taxes, and sometimes pay nothing.

But so far, I don't hear anyone talking here about actually doing away with the tax loopholes (subsidies and otherwise), but simply advocating raising taxes as though that will do anything to the truly wealthy without fixing the underlying problem. What good does it do to raise the taxes on people who can simply go out and get more loopholes and get into more things that are heavily subsidized? What do you think that accomplishes?

Okay, so let's burn it all to the ground and start over.

I mean, it's probably going to happen anyway.

And with that I'm out of this place again. I needed a break, and I'm going back to it.

[Red Dog]

Sounds like kvrdave is arguing against crony capitalism to me (with windmills simply being an example). I would think liberals would be on board with that.

[CRM114]

But so far, I don't hear anyone talking here about actually doing away with the tax loopholes (subsidies and otherwise), but simply advocating raising taxes as though that will do anything to the truly wealthy without fixing the underlying problem. What good does it do to raise the taxes on people who can simply go out and get more loopholes and get into more things that are heavily subsidized? What do you think that accomplishes?

I don't think anyone really cares where the revenue comes from at this point.

Of course the loopholes should be closed. But good luck with that. That will just generate another $25 billion lobbying effort - as if there isn't already one in full court press as we speak.

Occupy Wall St is not about helping these companies find ways to pay more taxes. They are there to say you better pull it together or this entire block will be burned to the ground. (To put it crudely.)

[kvrdave]

Sounds like kvrdave is arguing against crony capitalism to me (with windmills simply being an example). I would think liberals would be on board with that.

Damn, this is exactly right, and I don't get the resistence.

I don't think anyone really cares where the revenue comes from at this point.

Of course the loopholes should be closed. But good luck with that. That will just generate another $25 billion lobbying effort - as if there isn't already one in full court press as we speak.

Occupy Wall St is not about helping these companies find ways to pay more taxes. They are there to say you better pull it together or this entire block will be burned to the ground. (To put it crudely.)

Then they are fucking stupid. Stupider than the Tea Party. The Wall St. ones will have the law on their side, thus the guns, etc. They ought to try to fight the laws that keep Wall St. where it is. That I would support. Anarchy, I would not. I don't see how anyone can without also supporting militias. Same tactic but different philosophy.

[Navinabob]

Basically, they are Greenpeace without the false context that they are about the environment. I think most liberal extreme organizations are basically against big business/big brother/big phama/big government/big polluters/whatever. They hate killing animals, they hate non-organic foods, they hate oil companies, and they hate conservatives (who they feel loves everything they hate).

Regardless of whatever cause they say that they are supporting, you will still see signs blaming the industrial complex that the rich are controlling everything. So basically, they are at least being honest. It'd be nice if the Tea Party followed suit and named themselves the "Against Obama" party.

[Mabuse]

I don't think anyone really cares where the revenue comes from at this point.

Of course the loopholes should be closed. But good luck with that. That will just generate another $25 billion lobbying effort - as if there isn't already one in full court press as we speak.

Occupy Wall St is not about helping these companies find ways to pay more taxes. They are there to say you better pull it together or this entire block will be burned to the ground. (To put it crudely.)
Burned to the ground? Anarchy is not the solution. KVR offers a potential sollution. Closing loopholes for so companies actually pay taxes would be very benneficial. Telling bankers to go fuck themselves and making useless threats gets us no where. They won't even listen.

[Mabuse]

Basically, they are Greenpeace without the false context that they are about the environment. I think most liberal extreme organizations are basically against big business/big brother/big phama/big government/big polluters/whatever. They hate killing animals, they hate non-organic foods, they hate oil companies, and they hate conservatives (who they feel loves everything they hate).

Or, put another way, they hate their dads.

[wmansir]

I suppose one can debate whether "the rich" sit on their money like Scrooge McDuck or use it to create jobs. But Warren's rant wasn't against "the rich" in general----it was specifically about people who have a "great idea" and "start a factory".
I'll add to this that, as kvrdave has pointed out, the "Buffet Rule" will basically target investment income, which is generated from money that is being put to work.

[CRM114]

:lol: And if we tax the capital gains on some millionaire's Apple stock, he'll just get out of the market, right? Or if we tax the sale of his beach house gains at a higher rate, he just won't buy any more beach houses. Who is John Galt?

[CRM114]

Burned to the ground? Anarchy is not the solution.

Anarchy, I would not.

Let them eat cake.

[wishbone]

Let them eat cake.http://i51.tinypic.com/rj330o.jpg

"Après moi, l'odeur."

[kvrdave]

:lol: And if we tax the capital gains on some millionaire's Apple stock, he'll just get out of the market, right? Or if we tax the sale of his beach house gains at a higher rate, he just won't buy any more beach houses. Who is John Galt?

Fuck, it is like you are a computer program that simply spews forth the same line you are programmed with rather than actually taking it in and understanding what is said. I'm saying go ahead and tax the capital gains for the millionaire. Everything I have heard put forth so far by Obama and the Senate Democrats wouldn't actually do anything that would make Buffett pay more.

[TheBigDave]

Let them eat cake.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7852/obamacake460788191c.jpg

[kvrdave]

Let them eat cake.

You know what we could do....we could go with your idea. Oh fuck....you don't have any.

[Shazam]

What does this nutty cunt actually propose? Currently the tax rate on corporations is


She's a fucking wack job who hasn't done anything to actually create a job in her life. Has she ever ran a company? Is she talking about stopping liberal social engineering in the tax system or does she still want to give subsidies to flower power? She's a stupid commie cunt.Wow, you guys have insane tax rates on corporations. I pay 10% (fed) + 3% (provincial) on the first $250K.

[kvrdave]

Wow, you guys have insane tax rates on corporations. I pay 10% (fed) + 3% (provincial) on the first $250K.

No, they need to be higher. That will solve the problem.

[Rockmjd23]

You know what we could do....we could go with your idea. Oh fuck....you don't have any.
"It's Bush's fault" is an idea, so suck it.

[wabio]

I've got a really good idea. Impose tariffs on all imports. Very heavy tariffs, and if it requires that we pull out of the WTO.....so be it. They've never been pro-American anyways. It will force more U.S. corporations to think twice before moving those manufacturing facilities and jobs overseas. Better yet, it will also give foreign companies and investors incentives to open up shop here. It tells foreigners.....hey, if you want to sell your products in the world's biggest and most affluent market......you had better have some skin in the game. Clinton did it to the Japanese in the 90's auto-wars and look what happened. Half of all Japanese cars are now made in the U.S.

Unpredictable foreign governments. Cost of transport. Risk of theft to intellectual property. Unskilled labor. Anti-foreign sentiment. Loss of managerial oversight. Heck, heavy tariffs might just be the tipping point to bring investment back stateside.

Over time, it will cut the trade deficit, bring back jobs, and increase our taxable base increasing Uncle Sam's coffers while simultaneously decreasing gov't dole.

[kvrdave]

I think there are a lot of unintended consequences that would go along with it, but I'd still be willing to give it a shot. But keep in mind that we are something like the 3rd largest exporter in the world, and countries would respond in kind. You're a regular Patrick Buchanan. :lol:

Hell, at this point, I'd try a lot of things.

[wm lopez]

What we have here is the same thing that blacks have.
A low class that wants everybody to live at their lazy level.
When a black is educated he is called a uncle tom and that he is not black enough. Of course these names are never called at black criminals.
So we have these white liberal slackers who all they want out of life is job that can pay for their bar tab at the niteclub. Go live in Europe and see how good that is working out.

[Navinabob]

What we have here is the same thing that blacks have.
A low class that wants everybody to live at their lazy level.
When a black is educated he is called a uncle tom and that he is not black enough. Of course these names are never called at black criminals.
So we have these white liberal slackers who all they want out of life is job that can pay for their bar tab at the niteclub. Go live in Europe and see how good that is working out.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but this guys agrees with you totally.

<table border="0"><tr><td><a href="http://www.thosefunnypictures.com/picture/6377/racist.html"><img src="http://www.thosefunnypictures.com/pictures/6377/Funny_Pictures_6377.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td align="center"></td></tr></table>

[brayzie]

So wall street screwed over the country with getting their bailouts. What members of congress voted in favor of the bailouts? Wouldn't voting out of office the members of congress who supported the bailouts do more, rather than marching?

[TheBigDave]

:lol: Smelly hippies got scammed.

Occupy Wall Street protest, swelled by Radiohead hoax, marches on NYPD HQ, but gets lost

Radiohead didn't rock out with the Occupy Wall Street mass yesterday, but the crowds sure did as the protest marched into its third weekend - but had a little trouble finding NYPD headquarters.

The British rock band's rumored appearance at the downtown protest - later branded a "hoax" by organizers - swelled the ranks at the Zuccotti Park base to several thousand.

While hundreds of people have camped out overnight in the plaza during the two-week old sit-in for social change, an online announcement that Radiohead was en route jammed the plaza.

"I actually think it's kind of ridiculous," said a dreadlocked 20-year-old who identified himself as Pigpen. "The only reason 500 people are here is because they think Radiohead is going to be here."

Organizers were red-faced.

"I got hoaxed," said Patrick Bruner, who has been e-mailing on behalf of the Occupy Wall Street protesters. "Radiohead was never confirmed. Completely our fault. Apologies."

The band later wished protestors luck on their Twitter feed, but confirmed they would be no-shows.The band was in the city and performed two sold-out shows at the Roseland Ballroom this week.

But the infusion of new protestors lured by the Radiohead rumor brought renewed energy to the gathering, which roared as a group from the Transit Workers Union appeared at the plaza.

"I'm thrilled to be here," said retiree Joyce Gallagher, 64, from Midwood, Brooklyn. "I think we should have been in Wall Street for three years now."

A crowd of more than 2,000 people marched up Broadway, past a closed City Hall Park, under the arch of the Municipal Building and massed outside what some mistakenly thought was NYPD headquarters.

But most of the chanting horde plopped down in front of One St. Andrew's Plaza, which houses the U.S. Attorney's Office, not the NYPD.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/09/30/2011-09-30_occupy_wall_street_protest_swelled_by_rock_band_dropin_hoax_wheres_radiohead.html


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Piw6gY-_sqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jfoobar]

About 500 of them arrested tonight marching on the Brooklyn Bridge:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/7986771-418/about-400-arrested-in-occupy-wall-street-march-on-brooklyn-bridge.html

[JumpCutz]

Protesters > NYPD > Radiohead fans.

[PopcornTreeCt]

http://i56.tinypic.com/66jc07.jpg

Hello there.

[wm lopez]

So RADIOHEAD had already performed and got paid for it and then even though they were in the same area they didn't want to show up and play for free. This is the band these protesters follow?
Seems these dopes need to go protest RADIOHEAD.

[statcat]

About 500 of them arrested tonight marching on the Brooklyn Bridge:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/7986771-418/about-400-arrested-in-occupy-wall-street-march-on-brooklyn-bridge.html

http://i51.tinypic.com/296i2iq.jpg

[statcat]

since the news really doesn't cover it as expected, suggest looking for info and pictures here:

http://www.facebook.com/SmallPeopleAgainstBigGovernment

[TheBigDave]

NYPD says the number's around 700+ arrests:

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

A horde of Wall Street demonstrators shut down the Brooklyn Bridge for 2 1/2 hours this afternoon, halting traffic and clashing as cops arrested as many as 700 on the famed span’s roadway.

About 100 cars were left stranded as the loud, angry crowd covered the crossing from end to end in an inflamed day of demonstrations against high unemployment, bank bailouts and financial pain for the masses.

One irate driver, a Ground Zero construction worker, blasted the pedestrians.

“I work my ass off all day, and these goddamned hippies close down the Brooklyn Bridge so I can’t get home?” he said. “This ain’t right!”

The rowdy protestors, who have repeatedly tussled with police in the two weeks they’ve spent downtown, made their way through the rain from Zuccotti Park to City Hall, where the NYPD locked the park gates and diverted them elsewhere.

The crowd bottlenecked at the entrance to the bridge, tying up traffic as they slowly oozed across in a bid to get to Brooklyn Bridge Park.

According to police, the NYPD arrested over 700 protesters during the demonstration.

"About halfway across the bridge, a bunch of people took the road," said Occupy Wall Street protester Yaeir Heber, 22. "It was planned, at some point, to stop traffic and they did it midway and then when they did that cops started arresting people."

Eventually police hauled away hundreds of protestors, who were allegedly a menace to drivers, into custody.

They cleared cars from the bridge, making room for paddy wagons and at least four MTA buses, loading protesters, their wrists bound with plastic zip ties, aboard.

Demonstrators lit up Twitter, slamming the NYPD for allegedly arresting young teens and cramming people into vans "with no air."

Occupy Wall Street urged people to give them information about officers who were making arrests.

"To anyone who has seen officer badges, pics, etc. We name and shame," the group tweeted.

The chaotic day of rainy protests ended with police finally clearing the crossing around 6 p.m. As buses full of those in custody rolled off the bridge, the crowd chanted: "Let them go!"

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/wall_st_protestors_shut_down_brooklyn_yEqcq6EsqgJ1cSy0rXhkzJ


More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

Police reopened the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday evening after more than 700 anti-Wall Street protesters were arrested for blocking traffic lanes and attempting an unauthorized march across the span.

The arrests took place when a large group of marchers, participating in a second week of protests by the Occupy Wall Street movement, broke off from others on the bridge's pedestrian walkway and headed across the Brooklyn-bound lanes.

"Over 700 summonses and desk appearance tickets have been issued in connection with a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge late this afternoon after multiple warnings by police were given to protesters to stay on the pedestrian walkway, and that if they took roadway they would be arrested," a police spokesman said.

"Some complied and took the walkway without being arrested. Others proceeded on the Brooklyn-bound vehicular roadway and were. The bridge was re-opened to traffic at 8:05 p.m. (0005 GMT Sunday)."

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/02/us-wallstreet-protests-idUSTRE7900BL20111002

[jfoobar]

http://i51.tinypic.com/296i2iq.jpg

Did they allow them onto the bridge while they were already marching in vehicle lanes just so they could arrest them or did they allow them onto the bridge while on pedestrian walkways and then the protesters left the walkways to block vehicle lanes?

The first scenario is the only one where the police deserve some blame here. It is also pretty implausible. They didn't need to wait until a protester blocking vehicle traffic was on the bridge to arrest them.

[Jason]

This short video certainly looks like the police are leading protestors into some sort of traffic lane, not a pedestrian walkway, as a car comes up an onramp and goes onto the right of way the protestors are headed towards

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vz67fULXc-0?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vz67fULXc-0?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

I'm not familiar with the Brooklyn Bridge. Is this some sort of HOV lane?

EDIT: Here's a much longer video. Pedestrians lead into the traffic lanes by police around the 40 second mark

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fockzr7rXys" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[kvrdave]

:lol: This will lead to changes on Wall Street.

[wabio]

If people really wanted to force changes, they should organize a mass run on the banks. Convince everybody to withdraw all their money on the same day. One good strategy is to instill fear......since we know that's the most effective manipulator of the mass public. Tell everybody, if you don't withdraw all your money by so-and-so date.....you might lose it. Let's see how Wall Street responds to that.

[TheBigDave]

If people really wanted to force changes, they should organize a mass run on the banks. Convince everybody to withdraw all their money on the same day.

I doubt most of these protesters have anything in the bank. All their money is tied up in weed and cardboard signs.

[wm lopez]

I doubt most of these protesters have anything in the bank. All their money is tied up in weed and cardboard signs.

Also Radio Head downloads.

[JumpCutz]

I doubt most of these protesters have anything in the bank. All their money is tied up in weed and cardboard signs.

Exactly... and all cops are corrupt, alcoholic, fascists. :thumbsup:

[missflores]

This short video certainly looks like the police are leading protestors into some sort of traffic lane, not a pedestrian walkway, as a car comes up an onramp and goes onto the right of way the protestors are headed towards

................................

EDIT: Here's a much longer video. Pedestrians lead into the traffic lanes by police around the 40 second mark



Sounds like some are their chants are: 'who's bridge, our bridge' and 'occupy the bridge'

I doubt that they were tricked.

[crazyronin]

Exactly... and all cops are corrupt, alcoholic, fascists. :thumbsup:

I see you've been reading SmallPeopleAgainstBigGovernment. :up:

[JumpCutz]

I see you've been reading SmallPeopleAgainstBigGovernment. :up:

No actually, just TheBigDave and...SmellyHippy. -wink-

[Dr Mabuse]

Just read this article about these protests now starting in LA.

Economic protesters take to the streets in L.A.

'Occupy LA' demonstrators march from Pershing Square to City Hall to call attention to policies they say benefit the richest 1% of Americans.
Occupy LA rally

By Jason Song, Los Angeles Times

October 1, 2011, 8:25 p.m.
Stephen Maranzano had a long list of concerns: the war in the Middle East, corporate tax breaks, rising unemployment and the fact that he's working three part-time jobs and still barely makes ends meet.

"I don't know if we can be successful in changing all of that, but we have to do what we can," said the 58-year-old Costa Mesa resident, who gathered with several hundred fellow demonstrators Saturday afternoon outside Los Angeles City Hall.

The protest was organized by a group called Occupy LA and is modeled after a similar movement in New York that has been staging a sit-in on Wall Street for almost two weeks. Most participants say they hope to change or expose economic polices that benefit the richest 1% of Americans.

Like their Manhattan counterparts, the Los Angeles protesters said they plan to camp out by City Hall indefinitely or until they draw enough attention to their cause. Other protests have been springing up around the world, including in Cleveland and Australia.

"In the end, what we want to do is inspire working-class people to get involved in the political process," said Adam Liszkiewics, a 32-year-old USC graduate student.

The protesters began marching toward City Hall from Pershing Square about 10 a.m. and were accompanied by Los Angeles police officers who briefly stopped traffic at intersections for the marchers.

Crowd members waved signs, including one that read "The Banks Ate My Baby," and chanted "Hey hey, ho ho, corporate welfare's got to go."

A group of about 15 volunteers helped coordinate the event by getting permits and working with the Los Angeles Police Department, although no one would claim the title of being the group's leader.

"It's all about keeping your ego in check," said Mario Brito, one of the main volunteers. "It's a collective effort."

At City Hall, protesters set up an open microphone and speakers took turns urging each other to take action against government policies, pressure lawmakers and, perhaps most important, not destroy property or engage in any violent acts.

"We are committed to keeping this place nicer than we found it," Liszkiewics said.

Several said they had been affected by the slumping economy.

Michael Tangney, a 55-year-old Anaheim resident who repairs and sells vintage jukeboxes for a living, said he used to make about $50,000 a year until the recession.

"I've made one service call in the last month and I made a whopping $300," he said, holding a "Regulate the Sociopaths on Wall St." sign. "My clientele is middle-class working people, and they don't have any money."

Maranzano said that he works three part-time jobs, including putting up real estate signs and delivering newspapers, but that he may lose his employment at a warehouse in Fountain Valley.

"I've got to start looking again," he said.

[General Zod]

So these are Democrats protesting. I should have known since they did it all week. Republicans are busy working ;)

[kvrdave]

"In the end, what we want to do is inspire working-class people to get involved in the political process," said Adam Liszkiewics, a 32-year-old USC graduate student.
A worthy goal, and sounds different from the Wall Street Hippies. They don't seem to care whether there is a change in the political process or not.


Crowd members waved signs, including one that read "The Banks Ate My Baby," and chanted "Hey hey, ho ho, corporate welfare's got to go."
:lol: That is the most cliche' hippie chant in the world. If I were at a protest and they started the "hey, hey, ho, ho" crap, I'd fall over laughing or break out my bongos to make it legit.

Hippies protest in my town the first Monday of every Month in front of the county courthouse (all 10 of them show up). One time they showed up with a white guy with dreadlocks and bongos. I later saw one of the group members (I know most all of them) and told him, "if you want to be taken seriously and not look like some joke, you need to lose the bongos. The next Monday they had no bongos. I kind of wish I hadn't said anything. :lol:

[troystiffler]

So these are Democrats protesting. I should have known since they did it all week. Republicans are busy working ;)

Nah'. Like the rest of America, they're just all pretending to work, while actually texting and dicking around on Facebook.

[Navinabob]

A worthy goal, and sounds different from the Wall Street Hippies. They don't seem to care whether there is a change in the political process or not.

:lol: That is the most cliche' hippie chant in the world. If I were at a protest and they started the "hey, hey, ho, ho" crap, I'd fall over laughing or break out my bongos to make it legit.

Hippies protest in my town the first Monday of every Month in front of the county courthouse (all 10 of them show up). One time they showed up with a white guy with dreadlocks and bongos. I later saw one of the group members (I know most all of them) and told him, "if you want to be taken seriously and not look like some joke, you need to lose the bongos. The next Monday they had no bongos. I kind of wish I hadn't said anything. :lol:

Can't be any worse then Republican protest signs that all seem to start with "God hates _____" or "Go back to ______"

[kvrdave]

So 34 members of the Phelps family is now the Republicans.

Can't be worse than Democrats planting bombs on statues dedicated to police casualties.

My group of "Democrats" is bigger than your group of "Republicans" so I win. :lol:

[Navinabob]

So 34 members of the Phelps family is now the Republicans.

Can't be worse than Democrats planting bombs on statues dedicated to police casualties.

My group of "Democrats" is bigger than your group of "Republicans" so I win. :lol:

Go put "anti-immigration rally" and "anti-gay marriage rally" into Google image and go see how many Phelps clan you see in those pictures.

[kvrdave]

Go put "anti-immigration rally" and "anti-gay marriage rally" into Google image and go see how many Phelps clan you see in those pictures.

:lol: Fine, if this is the debate you feel the need to win, then the gay bashers on the Republican side are worse than the soldier haters on the Democrat side.

Enjoy the afterglow of the debate.

[Rockmjd23]

Fun fact:
Fred Phelps has run for Senator and Governor multiple times, as a Democrat.

[movielib]

Hippies protest in my town the first Monday of every Month in front of the county courthouse (all 10 of them show up). One time they showed up with a white guy with dreadlocks and bongos. I later saw one of the group members (I know most all of them) and told him, "if you want to be taken seriously and not look like some joke, you need to lose the bongos. The next Monday they had no bongos. I kind of wish I hadn't said anything. :lol:
As I thought, people listen to you. ;) Please do not tell the Madison protesters this about their drums and those horrid noisemakers from the World Cup Soccer tournament. We need them to keep looking like annoying morons. You can't count on someone bike locking her head to a Senate gallery railing or pouring beer on a legislator's head every day.

[Shazam]

They're going to have a protest in Calgary, I guess about the oilsands and the bad weather.

[wabio]

We can sit here and mock the protesters all we want, but when financial institutions make up 40% of total corporate profits in the U.S.......there is a problem.

[Shazam]

We can sit here and mock the protesters all we want, but when financial institutions make up 40% of total corporate profits in the U.S.......there is a problem.I don't get this. It means that banks are good at investing.

Are you good at investing?

[Bandoman]

I don't get this. It means that banks are good at investing.

Are you good at investing?

If I got the government to pay me when I lost money, it wouldn't matter if I was good at investing.

[Shazam]

If I got the government to pay me when I lost money, it wouldn't matter if I was good at investing.How are they getting paid by the government?

And if you're talking about capital losses, you can do that too.

[Bandoman]

How are they getting paid by the government?

And if you're talking about capital losses, you can do that too.

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/

[wishbone]

If I got the government to pay me when I lost money, it wouldn't matter if I was good at investing.http://i56.tinypic.com/14o3vb7.jpg

Too Bando to fail!!!!

[Bandoman]

:lol:

[Bandoman]

http://i.imgur.com/gmfFD.gif

[JumpCutz]

:lol:

[Jason]

Fun fact:
Fred Phelps has run for Senator and Governor multiple times, as a Democrat.

Phelps used to be a civil rights advocate until he figured out he was gay.

[crazyronin]

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4571/cuteprotester.jpg

Did I actually write that down? I'm pretty sure I was only thinking it.

[kvrdave]

Women shouldn't protest. If they are hot, we don't care what they are saying. If they are ugly, we don't care what they are saying...but they are wrong.

[PopcornTreeCt]

I like this protest. If I were in NYC I'd go there and hang out.

As for the talks of the other side, yes, the Tea Party was a bigger movement. However, the Tea Party is also responsible for destroying the Republican Party. Wait so a win-win?

[kvrdave]

The Tea Party has destroyed the Republican Party? Damn, imagine how many seats the Republicans would have picked up if they hadn't been destroyed. :lol:

[JumpCutz]

The Tea Party might fuck up the Republican chances of winning the 2012 presidential election though. :shrug:

[wm lopez]

The Tea Party might fuck up the Republican chances of winning the 2012 presidential election though. :shrug:

Here I am to teach you guys again.
When the TEA PARTY started they were called crazy by the liberal media and Democrats .
When Glen Beck had his rally the media & Democrats said they were going to act like these liberal protesters have acted.
The reports that say the Tea Party does harm is so the Republicans won't listen to them. It's like back when you were in school and you had the in crowd and they would spread rumors on somebody they feared would take away their cool.
It didn't work on Sara Palin she has had 2 best selling books and it won't work on the Tea Party. Keep track on who does more of the name calling between now and Nov. 2012 Liberals or Conservatives and vote for who does the least.

[kvrdave]

The Tea Party might fuck up the Republican chances of winning the 2012 presidential election though. :shrug:

"might" doesn't seem to fit with the past tense of "destroyed."

[Venusian]

I have a hard time taking protestors seriously when they are dressed like zombies. It looks like they are bored kids who couldn't find anything better to do

[CRM114]

The Tea Party has destroyed the Republican Party? Damn, imagine how many seats the Republicans would have picked up if they hadn't been destroyed. :lol:

Well, for one, you'd have a Republican Senator in Delaware and Nevada if not for the moronic TP candidates.

[CRM114]

I wonder why Fox didn't air their man on the scene getting owned? :lol: This guy rules.

6yrT-0Xbrn4

[Shazam]

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/That's not getting paid. That's a bailout.

I guess the gov't could've done what they did in the 30s. Let them fail. Worked out very well for the whole world.

[kvrdave]

Well, for one, you'd have a Republican Senator in Delaware and Nevada if not for the moronic TP candidates.

Damn, they have destroyed the Republican party. The Republicans only picked up 65 seats in the House and 6 in the Senate. THEY'VE BEEN DESTROYED!!!! :lol:

Is it possible that they wouldn't have picked up as many of the others if not for the TP? Yes. I don't really care about the TP, but let's face it, huge gains does not a destruction make.

[Bandoman]

Damn, they have destroyed the Republican party. The Republicans only picked up 65 seats in the House and 6 in the Senate. THEY'VE BEEN DESTROYED!!!! :lol:

Is it possible that they wouldn't have picked up as many of the others if not for the TP? Yes. I don't really care about the TP, but let's face it, huge gains does not a destruction make.

Come on, Dave, clearly "destroyed" means "did not do as well as they would have otherwise." Just like "stimulus success" means "we're not as bad off as we would have been without it."

[starman9000]

They destroyed the status quo GOP and replaced it with their version. It was a compliment.

[Bandoman]

That's not getting paid. That's a bailout.

I guess the gov't could've done what they did in the 30s. Let them fail. Worked out very well for the whole world.

My original point was (I think) that there's little incentive for the big banks to invest responsibly when there are no consequences for being irresponsible. I agree that letting them fail was not really an option, but here we are three years after near financial ruin, and there are no serious efforts to reign in Wall St.

[dork]

That's not getting paid. That's a bailout.

I guess the point is that if you have to get bailed out to save your existence, maybe you're not really that "good at investing"? Just thinking out loud here.

[TheBigDave]

Here's a proposed List Of Demands for Occupy Wall Street. It includes immediate debt forgiveness for all, free college education, elimination of free trade, a $20 an hour minimum wage, guaranteed “living wage” regardless of income, open borders, $1 trillion government spending on infrastructure, $1 trillion government spending on ecological restoration, a racial and gender equal rights amendment and easier unionization voting procedures.

(spoilered for size)

Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement!

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

[RoyalTea]

Why not demand a minimum wage of $480 per hour? Then everybody could be millionaires!

[Red Dog]

I don't know what's dumber....that list of demands or going to Wall Street to ask for it. Last time I checked, Wall Street can't pass a 14th amendment, which these fools apparently don't know already exists.

Interestingly enough, they didn't ask for gay equal rights. Because I suppose that would apparently be going too far. ;)

[starman9000]

Do they have an "or else" to back up these demands?

[CRM114]

It's some shmo on a forum. From Martha's Vineyard. :)

Does the 14th amendment cover gender discrimination like race or religion?

[Groucho]

Why not demand a minimum wage of $480 per hour? Then everybody could be millionaires!Maybe that's the Romney plan!

[Shazam]

My original point was (I think) that there's little incentive for the big banks to invest responsibly when there are no consequences for being irresponsible. I agree that letting them fail was not really an option, but here we are three years after near financial ruin, and there are no serious efforts to reign in Wall St.They work within the framework they're provided.

Blame your eunuch politicians for not having stricter banking requirements.

Europe's still worse though. Their reserve requirements are far less than even the US's.

[Shazam]

I guess the point is that if you have to get bailed out to save your existence, maybe you're not really that "good at investing"? Just thinking out loud here.I'm not the one who said they make up 40% of corporate profits. :shrug:

[Venusian]

How do you get rid of free trade if you have open borders?

[Ghostbuster]

The protestors should focus on one or two relevant issues such as financial regulation and perhaps raising the minimum wage to a living wage.

[kvrdave]

How do you get rid of free trade if you have open borders?

That was my first thought, and my biggest laugh. What a bunch of morans. It is like they think you can do these things in a vacuum with no other consequences.

[kvrdave]

My original point was (I think) that there's little incentive for the big banks to invest responsibly when there are no consequences for being irresponsible. I agree that letting them fail was not really an option, but here we are three years after near financial ruin, and there are no serious efforts to reign in Wall St.

I think letting them fail was an option. Rather than bail them out and let them keep their business, we should have "made right" the accounts that held retirements, etc. (most of AIG) and handed them over to a company that didn't run themselves into the ground. Despite what people think, many banks didn't get caught up in buying toxic securities.

If nothing else, you start a new company with new everything, making sure not to hire those that watched it all happen. That secures the accounts and makes sure you don't have huge bonuses going out to the guys at AIG, etc. Too big to fail should never mean too big to be cut up and given away to better stewards.

[eXcentris]

How do you get rid of free trade if you have open borders?

Replace customs with toll booths, no longer free! :)

[Venusian]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/111003095550-occupy-wall-street-zombies-story-top.jpg

[Venusian]

Replace customs with toll booths, no longer free! :)

or open

[CRM114]

They work within the framework they're provided.

Blame your eunuch politicians for not having stricter banking requirements.

Europe's still worse though. Their reserve requirements are far less than even the US's.

I think that's sort of the point of this protest. Wall St destroyed the country and yet nothing was done about it.

[Ky-Fi]

Since these protest groups are 99% white, I'm thinking we can safely assume that they're largely motivated by racial hatred.

[CRM114]

I think letting them fail was an option. Rather than bail them out and let them keep their business, we should have "made right" the accounts that held retirements, etc. (most of AIG) and handed them over to a company that didn't run themselves into the ground. Despite what people think, many banks didn't get caught up in buying toxic securities.

If nothing else, you start a new company with new everything, making sure not to hire those that watched it all happen. That secures the accounts and makes sure you don't have huge bonuses going out to the guys at AIG, etc. Too big to fail should never mean too big to be cut up and given away to better stewards.

Sure. The former CEO of Goldman was going to let Goldman fail. :lol:

"Letting the banks fail" is such a simplistic and naive view. "The banks" like Goldman ARE the economy.

[kvrdave]

I think that's sort of the point of this protest. Wall St destroyed the country and yet nothing was done about it.

But Obama.

[kvrdave]

Sure. The former CEO of Goldman was going to let Goldman fail. :lol:

"Letting the banks fail" is such a simplistic and naive view. "The banks" like Goldman ARE the economy.

They are not. They are a name. Hand over their stuff to a better steward. Works with small banks, and judging by the big banks that bought other big banks, it works fine there as well.

[Rockmjd23]

Since these protest groups are 99% white, I'm thinking we can safely assume that they're largely motivated by racial hatred.
:lol:
Come on now, these protesters are struggling to make ends meet. They have told us as much from their iphones and macbooks.

[CRM114]

But Obama.

Right. Obama did jack shit about it because the people that run the banks are more powerful than the President. Thus, Occupy Wall Street.

[wishbone]

:lol:
Come on now, these protesters are struggling to make ends meet. They have told us as much from their iphones and macbooks.http://i51.tinypic.com/2vk12rs.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2r7ngh2.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/1f8dh2.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/wkiwbp.jpg

Hey, how do you expect this guy to sleep without ear buds! :mad:

[General Zod]

Nobody posted their list of extremely reasonable demands?

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Remember kids when you do drugs..you start thinking like these people.

[kvrdave]

It was posted, and properly ridiculed.

[kvrdave]

Right. Obama did jack shit about it because the people that run the banks are more powerful than the President. Thus, Occupy Wall Street.

:lol: Okay, so they are more powerful than the president. So, you also give Bush a pass on all thing economic because they were more powerful than Bush, right? In fact, the economy isn't Bush's problem either because he couldn't really do anything because they are more powerful than the president.

Your excuses seem to have a one party exception to them even when you speak in general terms about politics. Very nice. :lol:

[orangecrush]

That's not getting paid. That's a bailout.

I guess the gov't could've done what they did in the 30s. Let them fail. Worked out very well for the whole world.They could have let them loose a lot of money, but not fail. But why punish bad corporate behavior when you can bail them out completely?

[CRM114]

:lol: Okay, so they are more powerful than the president. So, you also give Bush a pass on all thing economic because they were more powerful than Bush, right? In fact, the economy isn't Bush's problem either because he couldn't really do anything because they are more powerful than the president.

Your excuses seem to have a one party exception to them even when you speak in general terms about politics. Very nice. :lol:

All politicians (including Obama) are financed by these people. Bush gave them tax cuts and Obama extended them. The main difference is that Obama did not start two wars while doing it.

[kvrdave]

So it is the two wars. I suppose Obama wouldn't have been in Afghanistan either? Oh wait, he likes that war. So the real difference between them is one war...that was actually authorized, as opposed to the bombing in Libya.

Oh, how great a president Obama is compared to Bush. He's controlled by the same people, and does the same things, except for the one thing that was actually authorized and had overwhelming support, even from Democrats.

And that is why you support him. Because he is so very similar, and beholden to Wall Street.

[Groucho]

Don't worry folks. These loonies are the left-wing equivalent of the Tea Party. Eventually, the media will stop giving them attention and they'll go away...wait, I've just been handed a note.

Oh dear God.

[CRM114]

So it is the two wars. I suppose Obama wouldn't have been in Afghanistan either? Oh wait, he likes that war. So the real difference between them is one war...that was actually authorized, as opposed to the bombing in Libya.

Oh, how great a president Obama is compared to Bush. He's controlled by the same people, and does the same things, except for the one thing that was actually authorized and had overwhelming support, even from Democrats.

And that is why you support him. Because he is so very similar, and beholden to Wall Street.

You really fill in with a lot of imagination. :lol: Kudos to you for that skill.

[General Zod]

Don't worry folks. These loonies are the left-wing equivalent of the Tea Party. Eventually, the media will stop giving them attention and they'll go away...

Yeah it shouldn't be long. Their message isn't resonating. The media loves them because they are majority Democrat and unions now but whatever stupidity they would like the rest of us to ingest isn't happening.

When Obama was out campaigning he blamed everything going wrong on this country on the bumbling Bush administration. Now that's he's proven to be an incompetent boob himself he's trying to blame wall street "fat cats" (which he then has a fundraiser dinner with) on all his problems and these people are just sheep (except not as smart as sheep).

[wm lopez]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/111003095550-occupy-wall-street-zombies-story-top.jpg
Now they are channeling Heath Ledger's Joker.
Yep, this is the movement of today's youth.
Glenn Beck spoke of these guys this year.

[Nesbit]

Demand fourteen: Puppies for all
Demand fifteen: No more Mondays

[eXcentris]

Don't worry folks. These loonies are the left-wing equivalent of the Tea Party.

The Café Latte Party.

[PopcornTreeCt]

Damn, they have destroyed the Republican party. The Republicans only picked up 65 seats in the House and 6 in the Senate. THEY'VE BEEN DESTROYED!!!! :lol:

Is it possible that they wouldn't have picked up as many of the others if not for the TP? Yes. I don't really care about the TP, but let's face it, huge gains does not a destruction make.

The old Republican party has been destroyed it's been replaced by the Tea Party. Michele Bachman, seriously? Rick Perry? Herman Cain? Come on. These candidates actually make me long for John McCain.

[Jason]

Okay, what do we have here...

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. Sounds good.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. Sounds even better.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment. Um, no. Gotta pay for one and two somehow.

Demand four: Free college education. Sounds good. Or maybe have enough jobs that everybody doesn't need to go to college to have a decent life. Tougher public school curriculums would probably be a better goal.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand. Yes please.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now. This is going to have to happen, and will create a lot of jobs. This is probably the most realistic thing they're asking for.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants. Um, no. To pie in the sky.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment. Should be a no brainer.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live. Sounds good, but not practical. Streamlining immigration would be a good start.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system. Not sure the system is that broken. Cleaning up how elections are funded would be a better idea.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Now that's just silly. Real bankruptcy protection for individuals would be nice, but this is just stupid.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies. Just outlawing the commercials would be enough for me.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union. I'm fuzzy on this, mainly due to poor wording. Should employees be able to opt in and out of unions at any time? This needs work.

[Nesbit]

If they wanted something that would really benefit people they would demand that corporations no longer be legally viewed as people.

[PopcornTreeCt]

:up::up:

[kvrdave]

The old Republican party has been destroyed it's been replaced by the Tea Party. Michele Bachman, seriously? Rick Perry? Herman Cain? Come on. These candidates actually make me long for John McCain.
The front runner is currently Romney. Is he too Tea Party for you?

And John McCain? The one Republican that Democrats have always said they'd vote for until they were actually given the chance? When has he ever been the mainstream Republican Party? 1988?

Okay, what do we have here...

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. Sounds good.
It does sound good. But what they hell does it actually mean and what are their ideas to make it happen? It's like me asking for good will toward men. How do you measure it, do we even agree as to what it means?

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. Sounds even better.
Meh, it sounds good. I wish I could find a system I like better than our own before I decide, personally.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment. Um, no. Gotta pay for one and two somehow.
I'm not sure how this is different from number 1. They want the living wage restored (whatever that wage is). and then want it applied to all. That would be nice for the 16 year old life guard. I'm not sure how this pays for 1 or 2.

Demand four: Free college education. Sounds good. Or maybe have enough jobs that everybody doesn't need to go to college to have a decent life. Tougher public school curriculums would probably be a better goal. This is a clue that the movement is mainly filled with college students. Do you get rid of Harvard and Yale, and all the private schools since they aren't free? How is this paid for along with the single payer health care, and the living wage for everyone?

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand. Yes please. Why? If there is plenty of fossil fuels around, why not use them? Why move to electricity which will, out of necessity, mainly be coal fired plants or nuclear in order to meet the demands, and both of which they also want to get rid of. So what grand alternative energy is this? Is it solar? How do you encourage that? Subsidies to companies like GE so that they pay no income tax, and then we get mad about them not paying enough? How do you pay for this pixie dust plan of some great alternative energy that is better than fossil fuels.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now. This is going to have to happen, and will create a lot of jobs. This is probably the most realistic thing they're asking for. Didn't we just do that? What about the stimulus bill? Did that do anything? How will this be different? Where will the money come from?

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants. Um, no. To pie in the sky.
Agreed. Plus the fact that they apparently think money can just be printed forever with no consequences down the road. But look at this deeper. Get rid of the dams and nuke plants. But I thought we'd get into some great electrical car age? Or fuel cells....that need electricity. It's like banning basketballs but demanding more NBA games added to the season. It's fucking retarded.
[b]Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment. Should be a no brainer.
Should be a no brainer. Now if Wall Street would get right on that. Seriously? This is a demand of Wall Street? This is the dumbest fucking protest ever.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live. Sounds good, but not practical. Streamlining immigration would be a good start. Agree with you. But again, this is a problem they have with Wall Street? Why not do their love-in at the capital where people have the actual power to change laws?

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system. Not sure the system is that broken. Cleaning up how elections are funded would be a better idea. Agreed, and ditto my other points. How will Wall Street do this?

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Now that's just silly. Real bankruptcy protection for individuals would be nice, but this is just stupid.
Another clue about how stupid these people are. I owe money on some duplexes I purchased. I did not purchase them with a bank loan. I borrowed money from a guy who used his retirement money and wanted an 8% return and I put down enough that he doesn't worry about default. So, his retirement is raided so that I am debt free? Are all the bonds held by retirement funds also wiped out? Do Ford's bonds get erased? Fucking morons.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies. Just outlawing the commercials would be enough for me.
How fucking infantile do you have to be to believe that the credit reporting agencies are the problem? Outlaw and then what? We all have excellent credit? Who the hell would lend to anyone after having shown that debts can be wiped out with a love-in, and then you can't even know if the person asking for a loan has a history of paying back money owed?

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union. I'm fuzzy on this, mainly due to poor wording. Should employees be able to opt in and out of unions at any time? This needs work.
Agreed. What the hell are they even asking for?

Seriously, this is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Few things are stupider than a hard balanced budget amendment, but I can't find anything here that doesn't make that look like it was thought up by Einstein.

[General Zod]

Well here's my take..

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. $20/hr. Really? I'm sure the cost of everything else won't go up because of this right? Don't people understand why this doesn't work? And why work hard when the gov't is giving you a raise as the cost of everything else skyrockets. On second thought.. skip to #3 and why bother working at all?

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. And outlaw private insurance companies? So I guess people aren't allowed to pay for what they want anymore - just what the government is willing to give them. Is that what this country stands for?

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment. Let's all quit and work on the money coming from.. nowhere.

Demand four: Free college education. Again nobody to pay for this but who cares. I got a better idea how about college education for those that score well in school? I know I know.. Racist.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand. What magic fast track process is think? Just put your fingers on both sides of your head and think really hard and walaa! Fossil Fuel solution is magically here! They also want all coal plants shut down. So I guess we rely on nuclear while this magic solution is being divined?

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now. Where's this money gonna come from? Take it from health care, pensions, or defense. None of which even get that much (actually I think defends gets exactly that much. My guess is these folks would also love to disband the military because war isn't love and flowers.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants. Let's throw another trillion out there. Oh no more nuclear plants.. and no coal plants from before. So I guess we all rely on our windmill in our front lawn.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment. Don't we have this already? Upheld by the courts. It's law. You want a constitutional amendment that's fine I guess. It changes absolutely nothing.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live. Yeah we shouldn't have a right to determine who comes in and out like every other country in the world. But this might solve our immigration problem. Who's going to come here while we are flat broke and nobody is working? Unless they can sign up for their free $20/hr. The more the merrier.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system. Can someone point me to the international standards? Guess what.. there isn't one. The system we have now isn't perfect but it works. If you follow this it will take 6 months to find out who won after "party observes" object to every area they lose in.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Sure why not? Free money and no more debt. Please.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies. What credit reporting agencies? We just gave debt forgiveness. Who's the hell is going to lend money anymore when the gov't say nobody has to pay anything back?

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union. Obviously this was thrown in when the unions said they would join the protests. I have no idea what this means. You can sign a union ballot even if you aren't part of a union if you want a union you aren't part of to represent you during collective bargaining? Why not just say "Make everyone a member of a union". I know.. the unions can ensure people sitting at home making money get regular breaks and days off.

[Thor Simpson]

Sounds like they want to be able to hang out protesting Wall Street forever, and get a paycheck for it. Hippy greed?

[Boba Fett]

These look like another generation of the aimless layabouts I remember from college, who had nothing better to do but hang out at coffee shops and major in philosophy, political science, or communication.

[wmansir]

Proposal 13 sounds basically like card check. Currently to form a union the majority of workers have to vote for the union in a secret ballot. With card check if the union gets the majority of workers to sign support cards publicly the election is skipped. It's been stalled in congress for years because it's a rather transparent attempt to enable union intimidation and coercion.

[wabio]

This would be my list of demands:

Outlay lobbying. No more fat cash thrown at Washington in return for favors. I don't even want to begin to speculate how much money Henry Paulson ran off with. IMO, this is single-handedly undermining our democratic process. It doesn't matter who gets elected anymore......because they all end up in the same position. Wonder why?

Regulate stock options used for compensation. Require minimum vesting time of 5 years stretched over 20 years. The more money and options involved......the longer the requirement. This will prevent CEO's from continuing their pump-and-dump 5 year golden parachute plans.....where they lay everybody off and offshore all the factories, driving their stock prices up, and cashing out. Rinse and repeat with the next company. Having a longer vesting schedule would require CEO's to make decisions that are more in tune with the long term health of the company. Could you imagine if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs decided they just wanted to artificially inflate their stock price solely for the purpose of cashing out in a few years? Disaster.

Demand greater justice and punishment for white collared crime. The present system in much too lax on corporate criminals. I think Madoff may have been a turning point. Before him, crooks could literally ruin thousands of lives and not spend a day in jail.

Tax capital gains as income. The argument that taxing capital gains decreases investment is pure baloney. Like these fat cats have better places to invest 100 million dollars. This would also close the loophole hedge fund traders use to cap their personal income at 15% even though they make hundreds of millions of dollars.

Regulate the commodities market. Speculators are creating havoc on the lives of ordinary folks. We need to stop this nonsense. No more wild swings in prices of oil, electricity, corn, etc. These pump and dump schemes are over.

Re-enact Glass-Steagall. The last thing we need is these huge multi-national financial companies having control of every aspect of lives.......from mortgages, to our car loans, to our retirement plans, to our daily checking accounts. Break up the banks.

[CRM114]

These look like another generation of the aimless layabouts I remember from college, who had nothing better to do but hang out at coffee shops and major in philosophy, political science, or communication.

Like Steve Jobs?

[CRM114]

Proposal 13 sounds basically like card check. Currently to form a union the majority of workers have to vote for the union in a secret ballot. With card check if the union gets the majority of workers to sign support cards publicly the election is skipped. It's been stalled in congress for years because it's a rather transparent attempt to enable union intimidation and coercion.

And at the same time, prevent company intimidation and coercion.

And wabio needs to head to Manhattan and bring these people some focus!

[RoyalTea]

Funny that some other same people who hate rich people and high profit margins are mourning Steve Jobs.

[arminius]

This would be my list of demands:

Outlay lobbying. No more fat cash thrown at Washington in return for favors. I don't even want to begin to speculate how much money Henry Paulson ran off with. IMO, this is single-handedly undermining our democratic process. It doesn't matter who gets elected anymore......because they all end up in the same position. Wonder why?

Regulate stock options used for compensation. Require minimum vesting time of 5 years stretched over 20 years. The more money and options involved......the longer the requirement. This will prevent CEO's from continuing their pump-and-dump 5 year golden parachute plans.....where they lay everybody off and offshore all the factories, driving their stock prices up, and cashing out. Rinse and repeat with the next company. Having a longer vesting schedule would require CEO's to make decisions that are more in tune with the long term health of the company. Could you imagine if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs decided they just wanted to artificially inflate their stock price solely for the purpose of cashing out in a few years? Disaster.

Demand greater justice and punishment for white collared crime. The present system in much too lax on corporate criminals. I think Madoff may have been a turning point. Before him, crooks could literally ruin thousands of lives and not spend a day in jail.

Tax capital gains as income. The argument that taxing capital gains decreases investment is pure baloney. Like these fat cats have better places to invest 100 million dollars. This would also close the loophole hedge fund traders use to cap their personal income at 15% even though they make hundreds of millions of dollars.

Regulate the commodities market. Speculators are creating havoc on the lives of ordinary folks. We need to stop this nonsense. No more wild swings in prices of oil, electricity, corn, etc. These pump and dump schemes are over.

Re-enact Glass-Steagall. The last thing we need is these huge multi-national financial companies having control of every aspect of lives.......from mortgages, to our car loans, to our retirement plans, to our daily checking accounts. Break up the banks.

Sounds very reasonable to me. I'm in.

[Red Dog]

How do you outlaw lobbying without violating the 1st amendment?

[crazyronin]

Like Steve Jobs?

Instead of a slacker God, Steve Jobs proves that a driven person can succeed without a college degree as long as they surround themselves with talented people.

[orangecrush]

How do you outlaw lobbying without violating the 1st amendment?Quite you! All lobbyists would rape you as soon as look at you. There is not a single one with legitimate, non-raping motives.

[sracer]

How do you outlaw lobbying without violating the 1st amendment?
What part of the 1st amendment would be violated by outlawing lobbying?

[wabio]

How do you outlaw lobbying without violating the 1st amendment?

Fine allow lobbying, but only if there is no exchange of money, gifts, favors, benefits, etc. of any kind. Out politicians are being bought-off wholesale by the rich and powerful. Everyone else is paying the price.

[starman9000]

What part of the 1st amendment would be violated by outlawing lobbying?

Talking to people.

[crazyronin]

What part of the 1st amendment would be violated by outlawing lobbying?

It certainly wouldn't be the right speak freely without government interference. I suppose he means the establishment clause. :shrug:

[sracer]

It certainly wouldn't be the right speak freely without government interference. I suppose he means the establishment clause. :shrug:
If lobbying were simply (and limited to) talking then there would be no problem. I thought it was pretty obvious that when someone says "outlaw lobbying" they're referring to everything other than "simply talking". I guess it wasn't so obvious.

[kvrdave]

Tax capital gains as income. The argument that taxing capital gains decreases investment is pure baloney. Like these fat cats have better places to invest 100 million dollars. This would also close the loophole hedge fund traders use to cap their personal income at 15% even though they make hundreds of millions of dollars.

I think this is a fine idea if you are setting a minimum of around $1 million before it is taxed at the income level....maybe more. I see lots of people decide not to sell real estate based on the capital gains rate. Where it is now seems to be the tipping point of whether or not people sell. When it was higher, it was a big deal. That is money that ends up back in the economy.

And at the same time, prevent company intimidation and coercion.

How? If the company sees who signs up in their public vote, they know who to intimindate and coerce. If it is all a secret vote, how does that benefit the company? Why is the idea that a vote is private such an awful concept?

How do you outlaw lobbying without violating the 1st amendment?

You'd have to make a constitutional amendment.

[kvrdave]

What part of the 1st amendment would be violated by outlawing lobbying?

SCOTUS says that money is speech.

[Red Dog]

What part of the 1st amendment would be violated by outlawing lobbying?

The petition clause, obviously.

[wabio]

SCOTUS says that money is speech.

Well SCOTUS is dead wrong and dumb as dick. If money if free speech, then so must be stocks, bonds, gold, diamonds, mortgage deeds, car notes, and anything with intrinsic value.......maybe even your iphone. Maybe that's why all those so-called "poor" people have iphones.....because it's their 1st amendment right to <i>free speech </i>? ;)

[kvrdave]

Well SCOTUS is dead wrong and dumb as dick. If money if free speech, then so must be stocks, bonds, gold, diamonds, mortgage deeds, car notes, and anything with intrinsic value.......maybe even your iphone. Maybe that's why all those so-called "poor" people have iphones.....because it's their 1st amendment right to <i>free speech </i>? ;)

What you do with those things would be a form of speech. That's the point.

I think it is moot anyway. Congress will not regulate itself, and that is where it needs to start.

[CRM114]

How do you outlaw lobbying without violating the 1st amendment?

Yeah, its not the lobbying as much as the money. Money is the issue.

[Thor Simpson]

So unless these demands are met (which I think we can all agree is an impossibility) then the protests will continue?

[kvrdave]

At least until winter break. :lol:

[kvrdave]

Or.....just a thought....we could legalize pot and the protests would stop tomorrow.

[Red Dog]

Yeah, its not the lobbying as much as the money. Money is the issue.

And that's fair. I have to believe there are laws against bribing legislators. So it's an enforcement issue. Outlawing lobbying is not a viable solution.

It would also help if more people voted against entrenched congressmen (or at least not vote for them). Unfortunately, most people are idiots.

[CRM114]

How? If the company sees who signs up in their public vote, they know who to intimindate and coerce. If it is all a secret vote, how does that benefit the company? Why is the idea that a vote is private such an awful concept?


It's all in the open. There is no attempt by the company to change their vote through intimidation.

[CRM114]

Or.....just a thought....we could legalize pot and the protests would stop tomorrow.

:lol: kvrdave. The Pot Czar.

[CRM114]

And that's fair. I have to believe there are laws against bribing legislators. So it's an enforcement issue. Outlawing lobbying is not a viable solution.

It would also help if more people voted against entrenched congressmen (or at least not vote for them). Unfortunately, most people are idiots.

It has to extend to fancy dinners, trips to the Cayman Islands, elaborate golf outings. Things that make these relatively low paid people feel like millionaires. That in turn makes them never want to give it up and they will do anything to stay in office.

[kvrdave]

It's all in the open. There is no attempt by the company to change their vote through intimidation.

I don't understand that. If it is all out in the open, there seems to be a greater chance of intimidation from both sides. Should we do away with private votes in presidential elections? I don't know why it would be good in one area and not another.

[kvrdave]

It has to extend to fancy dinners, trips to the Cayman Islands, elaborate golf outings. Things that make these relatively low paid people feel like millionaires. That in turn makes them never want to give it up and they will do anything to stay in office.

Agreed. The biggest problem is that those who can make the change are getting the benefits, so I don't see it happening.

[Sean O'Hara]

Looking at my Plus/Twitter/Facebook feeds is quite amusing. The same people who've been posting in support of Occupy Wall Street are now talking about how horrible it is that Steve Jobs died.

[CRM114]

Looking at my Plus/Twitter/Facebook feeds is quite amusing. The same people who've been posting in support of Occupy Wall Street are now talking about how horrible it is that Steve Jobs died.

Welcome to this thread circa 9 AM.

Funny that some other same people who hate rich people and high profit margins are mourning Steve Jobs.

Not sure what mourning the loss of a visionary thinker has to do with Wall St though unless you are completely unable to separate his mind from his business.

And I have to say, what I find amusing is the concept that people who would like to see the top 1% pay more taxes "hate" them. It sure is hateful to have to ask for ten grand from someone who makes that in 2 days. -rolleyes-

[kvrdave]

Not sure what mourning the loss of a visionary thinker has to do with Wall St though unless you are completely unable to separate his mind from his business.

People that want something for nothing seem to love the guy who overcharged for everything. It seems ironic.

[wishbone]

People that want something for nothing seem to love the guy who overcharged for everything. It seems ironic.Courtesy the Random Picture Post Thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10950618-post595.html)...

http://i54.tinypic.com/v9lb9.png

[Groucho]

The profit margin on memory as you go to higher GB models is incredible!

[kvrdave]

The profit margin on memory as you go to higher GB models is incredible!

Which is why Apple has never allowed an sd slot. CORPORATE GREED!!!!

[wm lopez]

Looking at my Plus/Twitter/Facebook feeds is quite amusing. The same people who've been posting in support of Occupy Wall Street are now talking about how horrible it is that Steve Jobs died.
You will notice also that the ones who called Tea Party dangerous are not calling this group that.

[General Zod]

And I have to say, what I find amusing is the concept that people who would like to see the top 1% pay more taxes "hate" them. It sure is hateful to have to ask for ten grand from someone who makes that in 2 days. -rolleyes-

I like how some people feel they are owed because they can't or won't by those that can or do. I've never sunk so low in my life to feel that way and I hope I never do. I can want... I can dream.. to be in a better situation but I will never expect, demand, or feel I am owed more by those who have figured out how to achieve better than I have.

[Thor Simpson]

It sure is hateful to have to ask for ten grand from someone who makes that in 2 days. -rolleyes-

Okay, so can I please have 10 grand?

[kvrdave]

Welcome to this thread circa 9 AM.



Not sure what mourning the loss of a visionary thinker has to do with Wall St though unless you are completely unable to separate his mind from his business.

And I have to say, what I find amusing is the concept that people who would like to see the top 1% pay more taxes "hate" them. It sure is hateful to have to ask for ten grand from someone who makes that in 2 days. -rolleyes-

Reduce spending by a trillion and I will agree to raising taxes (any you want) by 200 billion so that we can balance the budget. And none of this baseline budgeting crap. Considering that is 5 times more of a tax increase than simply getting rid of the Bush/Obama tax cuts on the highest earners, that should make you happy. But you have to cut before you can tax. We've been there before. Hell, you can even do it at the same time. I've given up so much of my position. How much, in the spirit of bipartisanship which we so desperately claim to want from our elected officials, will you give up to meet me halfway on this?

[Superboy]

You will notice also that the ones who called Tea Party dangerous are not calling this group that.

when I think of hipster protesters clamoring for social justice, it always brings into my mind two backwater hicks with a confederate flag on their truck, dragging a black man to their death, or a lynch mob hanging an innocent black man for talking to a white woman. I guess that's history for you, some people just don't get these kinds of historical associations.

[Superboy]

I like how some people feel they are owed because they can't or won't by those that can or do. I've never sunk so low in my life to feel that way and I hope I never do. I can want... I can dream.. to be in a better situation but I will never expect, demand, or feel I am owed more by those who have figured out how to achieve better than I have.

Unless an illegal immigrant is stealing a job you want. Then, you'll need the government to step in.

[Thor Simpson]

when I think of hipster protesters clamoring for social justice, it always brings into my mind two backwater hicks with a confederate flag on their truck, dragging a black man to their death, or a lynch mob hanging an innocent black man for talking to a white woman.

Because that's what fiscal conservatives do, right?

[Superboy]

Reduce spending by a trillion and I will agree to raising taxes (any you want) by 200 billion so that we can balance the budget. And none of this baseline budgeting crap. Considering that is 5 times more of a tax increase than simply getting rid of the Bush/Obama tax cuts on the highest earners, that should make you happy. But you have to cut before you can tax. We've been there before. Hell, you can even do it at the same time. I've given up so much of my position. How much, in the spirit of bipartisanship which we so desperately claim to want from our elected officials, will you give up to meet me halfway on this?

And if you give me an honest politician, i'll never break the law again.

[Rockmjd23]

when I think of hipster protesters clamoring for social justice, it always brings into my mind two backwater hicks with a confederate flag on their truck, dragging a black man to their death, or a lynch mob hanging an innocent black man for talking to a white woman. I guess that's history for you, some people just don't get these kinds of historical associations.
But thinking of Tea Partiers brings that stuff to mind?!

[Superboy]

:doh:

Christ almighty, can't you sense sarcasm when you see it?

I guess I should clarify:

My point was, the media didn't consider the Tea Party dangerous. Get it?

[Jason]

You will notice also that the ones who called Tea Party dangerous are not calling this group that.

And the people who thought the tea party were patriots hardly feel the same way about these guys.

[Sean O'Hara]

Not sure what mourning the loss of a visionary thinker has to do with Wall St though unless you are completely unable to separate his mind from his business.

So if you're a "visionary," you can get away with shipping jobs overseas to Chinese sweatshops -- and then overcharging for the resulting product.

And how can you separate his mind from his business? His business and "visionary" qualities are the same thing.

[orangecrush]

So if you're a "visionary," you can get away with shipping jobs overseas to Chinese sweatshops -- and then overcharging for the resulting product.

And how can you separate his mind from his business? His business and "visionary" qualities are the same thing.What are you talking about? Apple's profit margins are nothing compared to health insurance companies...

[CRM114]

Courtesy the Random Picture Post Thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10950618-post595.html)...


Weird that that breakdown doesn't mention anything about Apple's engineering, distribution, administration, or marketing costs.

Reduce spending by a trillion and I will agree to raising taxes (any you want) by 200 billion so that we can balance the budget. And none of this baseline budgeting crap. Considering that is 5 times more of a tax increase than simply getting rid of the Bush/Obama tax cuts on the highest earners, that should make you happy. But you have to cut before you can tax. We've been there before. Hell, you can even do it at the same time. I've given up so much of my position. How much, in the spirit of bipartisanship which we so desperately claim to want from our elected officials, will you give up to meet me halfway on this?

So you want to cut either defense or everything else? Or half of defense and half of everything else? Tell me the trillion you want to cut and I'll let you know if I agree.

SS and Medicare are funded separately so leave those out of the discussion.

[CRM114]

So if you're a "visionary," you can get away with shipping jobs overseas to Chinese sweatshops -- and then overcharging for the resulting product.

And how can you separate his mind from his business? His business and "visionary" qualities are the same thing.

There is no doubt there is a conundrum for these protesters living between consumerism and protesting it's resulting greed. Is consumerism their/our fault? Unless one wants to live the Unabomber lifestyle, I'd be hard pressed to find people that don't submit to purchasing a product from a behemoth multinational corporation.

But to address your point, yes, I can personally acknowledge Steve Jobs brilliance as a separate issue. Not everything in my life is looked at in political terms. Thak god for that.

[Tracer Bullet]

How dare the protesters use computers!

[CRM114]

APPLE computers no less. They are so EXPENSIVE!!111!!

[Tracer Bullet]

So if you're a "visionary," you can get away with shipping jobs overseas to Chinese sweatshops -- and then overcharging for the resulting product.

And how can you separate his mind from his business? His business and "visionary" qualities are the same thing.

Well, Apple's products are not manufactured in what could typically be referred to as a "sweatshop", but I will agree that the working conditions are troubling.

That said, the idea that Apple's products are overpriced, like the belief that George W. Bush is stupid or that Sarah Palin isn't, is one of those ideas that continues in spite of all the evidence. Namely, that the iPhone is competitively priced, that the iPad is one the cheapest tablets on the market, and that Apple computers, if you use comparable models from other manufacturers as a benchmark, are priced well. Apple doesn't make a $499 laptop because they have no interest in making a $499 laptop.

I will say though that Apple's accessories are overpriced.

[dork]

I will say though that Apple's accessories are overpriced.
And I think that Bristol Palin is stupid.

[Superboy]

You will notice also that the ones who called Tea Party dangerous are not calling this group that.

So without the sarcasm: who called the Tea Party 'dangerous'? and in what way? and when was this?

[CRM114]

And by the way, EVEREYTHING these days is made in sweatshops in China. Again, it's the protester's hypocrisy showing. How dare they buy clothes from Old Navy!

[CRM114]

So without the sarcasm: who called the Tea Party 'dangerous'? and in what way? and when was this?

When they'd bring guns to their rallies and support the 2nd amendment as if it was actually in danger. There were allegations of all kinds of coded rhetoric. I remember it. They talked about "2nd amendment remedies" and Michele Bachamn spoke of the 2nd amendment in similar terms - of overthrowing the government.

[classicman2]

You don't believe the II Amendment is in danger?

[orangecrush]

Well, Apple's products are not manufactured in what could typically be referred to as a "sweatshop", but I will agree that the working conditions are troubling.

That said, the idea that Apple's products are overpriced, like the belief that George W. Bush is stupid or that Sarah Palin isn't, is one of those ideas that continues in spite of all the evidence. Namely, that the iPhone is competitively priced, that the iPad is one the cheapest tablets on the market, and that Apple computers, if you use comparable models from other manufacturers as a benchmark, are priced well. Apple doesn't make a $499 laptop because they have no interest in making a $499 laptop.

I will say though that Apple's accessories are overpriced.I am just so happy to see you post Tracer. I have nothing to add but that.

[Tracer Bullet]

I am just so happy to see you post Tracer. I have nothing to add but that.

:blush:

[CRM114]

You don't believe the II Amendment is in danger?

Absolutely not.

[dork]

Let me just once again add that the opinions of orangecrush are his own and are in no way meant to represent those of any other posters here.

[al_bundy]

Courtesy the Random Picture Post Thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10950618-post595.html)...

http://i54.tinypic.com/v9lb9.png


every high end phone has a similar cost of parts and MSRP's and subsidies. not like the nexus prime is going to be $500 in parts alone

[Superboy]

You don't believe the II Amendment is in danger?

these days, every amendment is in danger, don't you think? and people standing up for one isn't going to hurt things.

[Superboy]

When they'd bring guns to their rallies and support the 2nd amendment as if it was actually in danger. There were allegations of all kinds of coded rhetoric. I remember it. They talked about "2nd amendment remedies" and Michele Bachamn spoke of the 2nd amendment in similar terms - of overthrowing the government.

Ah. So you can see why a bunch of hipsters becoming voluntarily homeless and engaging in peaceful protest would be compared to a group with borderline seditious intentions.

[Tracer Bullet]

Let me just once again add that the opinions of orangecrush are his own and are in no way meant to represent those of any other posters here.

That's the nicest thing you've ever said about me.

[classicman2]

Absolutely not.

I suppose if you are one of those that believe the Framers put in the 2nd Amendment only to allow George Washington & others to hunt rabbits with their single-shot .22 - you might think that.

[CRM114]

Of if you had paranoid delusions, you might think someone was trying to take them from you.

[kvrdave]

So you want to cut either defense or everything else? Or half of defense and half of everything else? Tell me the trillion you want to cut and I'll let you know if I agree.

SS and Medicare are funded separately so leave those out of the discussion.

I am completely willing to let you pick all the cuts in the spirit of compromise.

What else can I possibly give you? I've offered to raise tax revenue by 5 times what Obama has proposed, and I've offered to let you make all the cuts. But spending must be part of the problem, isn't it? Have we simply increased spending with no place to cut? Is everything so vital that we can't possibly live within our means? If you can't cut a trillion, I'll even go along with you raising more money from some other source if you can think it up.

Personally, I'd likely cut the Dept of Education by 50% and send states half the money they get now, but with no strings attached so that schools can save on adminstration costs, etc. I'd cut defense by a fair amount (10-15%) and move toward bombing people from afar but reducing the number of troops we have. I'd also shut down a great number of bases overseas.

[CRM114]

Me too. OK, now we're about 1/5 of the way there. What else do you want to cut? I'll even give you ALL of the Dept of Ed. Still, nowhere close to the trillion.

[starman9000]

Would more bombing/less troops save money? It seems like it should, but I haven't looked into it.

Closing bases would surely save though.

[Superboy]

I suppose if you are one of those that believe the Framers put in the 2nd Amendment only to allow George Washington & others to hunt rabbits with their single-shot .22 - you might think that.

The NRA isn't pro-gun, it's just anti-varmit - Greg Giraldo.

[BearFan]

There are certainly plenty of cuts that can be made in defense, the GOP is certainly wrong on that issue.

[arminius]

Would more bombing/less troops save money? It seems like it should, but I haven't looked into it.

Closing bases would surely save though.

I would think that the worst part of defence spending is on big ticket items like aircraft, ships and the like. The R and D put into new generations of these while the existing ones are fine for any enemy in the near future. I would think most of the waste is there too. I would say base closings and a smaller, focused and professional military with the emphasis on the troops and their ability to fight. Better armor, small arms, commo and the like. More APCs and less MBTs, more choppers and drones and less fighters and bombers. But would the Gov and big biz want that? I doubt it.

[Ky-Fi]

Democratic establishment in Boston has no problem with these types of mass demonstrations, as long as they're on the right side of the political aisle:

Occupy’s pass steams Tea Party

City, state OK with lack of permits

By Dave Wedge
Friday, October 7, 2011 - Updated 4 hours ago


The Hub’s hands-off approach to unpermitted Occupy Boston protests has Tea Partiers up in arms and has even rankled a top civil libertarian who said all groups should be subject to the same rules — regardless of the cause.

“It’s always a dangerous precedent when the city treats one group differently than another,” said civil rights attorney Harvey Silverglate. “I’m opposed generally to these requirements, but if they are required of one group, then they should be required of all. The precedent (the city is setting) is, if there are so many people joining a demonstration that the city doesn’t want to tangle with them, then they will waive the requirements.”

Organizers of the Occupy Boston tent city in Dewey Square have never sought nor received any permits from the state, the city or the Rose Kennedy Greenway Conservancy, which controls the property.

To avoid unrest, the Conservancy, like the city and Boston Police Department, has not booted the campers off the 1⁄2-acre plot. Conservancy chief Nancy Brennan called the makeshift campsite “an extraordinary situation” and said it would not pave the way to allow people to randomly “camp out” on the Greenway.

“In addition to supporting free speech, we’re aware that asking the protesters to leave will create conflict and significant expense,” Brennan said. “Should circumstances become unfavorable, we will work with the Boston Police Department to determine the appropriate response.”

Christen Varley, spokeswoman for the Greater Boston Tea Party, said she’s “miffed” by the laissez-faire attitude of city and state officials. The Greenway has provided electricity to the protesters, while other groups, such as the Tea Party, have to pay for power at events, she said.

“I think public safety is a huge issue here,” Varley said. She added that the Tea Party will seek the costs of the Occupy Boston protest and cleanup and “will be looking into recouping those costs for the taxpayers in the city of Boston.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1371593

-— dwedge@bostonherald.com

[kvrdave]

Me too. OK, now we're about 1/5 of the way there. What else do you want to cut? I'll even give you ALL of the Dept of Ed. Still, nowhere close to the trillion.

Hell, that's as far as you and I would probably agree on. :lol:

How about we go with something like $4 in cuts for every $1 in tax increase? Then you can raise taxes all you want, you just have to include a proportional amount of the budget that is spending (and I was overly generous there as it would be much closer to $10 to $1).

[kvrdave]

Democratic establishment in Boston has no problem with these types of mass demonstrations, as long as they're on the right side of the political aisle:

Occupy’s pass steams Tea Party

City, state OK with lack of permits

By Dave Wedge
Friday, October 7, 2011 - Updated 4 hours ago


The Hub’s hands-off approach to unpermitted Occupy Boston protests has Tea Partiers up in arms and has even rankled a top civil libertarian who said all groups should be subject to the same rules — regardless of the cause.

“It’s always a dangerous precedent when the city treats one group differently than another,” said civil rights attorney Harvey Silverglate. “I’m opposed generally to these requirements, but if they are required of one group, then they should be required of all. The precedent (the city is setting) is, if there are so many people joining a demonstration that the city doesn’t want to tangle with them, then they will waive the requirements.”

Organizers of the Occupy Boston tent city in Dewey Square have never sought nor received any permits from the state, the city or the Rose Kennedy Greenway Conservancy, which controls the property.

To avoid unrest, the Conservancy, like the city and Boston Police Department, has not booted the campers off the 1⁄2-acre plot. Conservancy chief Nancy Brennan called the makeshift campsite “an extraordinary situation” and said it would not pave the way to allow people to randomly “camp out” on the Greenway.

“In addition to supporting free speech, we’re aware that asking the protesters to leave will create conflict and significant expense,” Brennan said. “Should circumstances become unfavorable, we will work with the Boston Police Department to determine the appropriate response.”

Christen Varley, spokeswoman for the Greater Boston Tea Party, said she’s “miffed” by the laissez-faire attitude of city and state officials. The Greenway has provided electricity to the protesters, while other groups, such as the Tea Party, have to pay for power at events, she said.

“I think public safety is a huge issue here,” Varley said. She added that the Tea Party will seek the costs of the Occupy Boston protest and cleanup and “will be looking into recouping those costs for the taxpayers in the city of Boston.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1371593

-— dwedge@bostonherald.com

shocking :|