Speaker question 4ohm, 6ohm, 8ohm
04-05-02, 11:14 AM
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Speaker question 4ohm, 6ohm, 8ohm
I have a Sony 30ES receiver that has selectable speaker settings for 4 Ohm and 8 Ohm. I picked up a nice pair of speakers yesterday that are rated at 6 Ohm.
My center and L/R Surround speakers are 8 Ohm.
What setting should I use for the new pair?
My center and L/R Surround speakers are 8 Ohm.
What setting should I use for the new pair?
04-05-02, 11:45 AM
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I would leave it at 8 ohm.
These ratings are averaged over the freq range of the speaker and many times not correct. Which speakers did you just get and where in your system are they goin?
These ratings are averaged over the freq range of the speaker and many times not correct. Which speakers did you just get and where in your system are they goin?
04-05-02, 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by bfrank
I would leave it at 8 ohm.
These ratings are averaged over the freq range of the speaker and many times not correct. Which speakers did you just get and where in your system are they goin?
I would leave it at 8 ohm.
These ratings are averaged over the freq range of the speaker and many times not correct. Which speakers did you just get and where in your system are they goin?
I also picked up a Hafler VRM12.1 subwoofer (slightly dented cabinet) for $50
05-08-02, 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by bfrank
I would leave it at 8 ohm.
These ratings are averaged over the freq range of the speaker and many times not correct. Which speakers did you just get and where in your system are they goin?
I would leave it at 8 ohm.
These ratings are averaged over the freq range of the speaker and many times not correct. Which speakers did you just get and where in your system are they goin?
I just found out I'm in a similar situation. I just won some Monitor Audio Silver 9i's from ebay and didn't realize they were 6 ohm speakers.
My receiver will let me pick from either 4 ohms or 8 ohms.
Since all the other speakers are 8 ohms, should I leave the receiver setting at 8 ohms, or go down to 4 ohms? (Receiver is Yamaha 2095, the 9is will be my mains.)
Yamaha 2095: Impedence selector switch pic Specs
Specs for 9is: http://www.monitoraudio.com/products...r/silver9.html
Also, should I be thinking about getting an amp at least for the mains?
Thanks!
-David
05-08-02, 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by bfrank
If they are your fronts then I would go to 4 but you are using these for effects right? If so go with 8.
I will explain better tomorrow - got to go.
If they are your fronts then I would go to 4 but you are using these for effects right? If so go with 8.
I will explain better tomorrow - got to go.
But that's why I was asking for clarification, as these speakers are likely a little more powerful than the ones mentioned above and your reply made it sound like that would make a difference.
I'll go with the 4 ohms then, but don't completely understand what this will mean for the sound quality/level?
I can wait for your reply though. I have a cold and my ears are all plugged up so I haven't tried hooking them up yet.
Thanks.
audrey,
Define loud.
I like to make them as loud as is comfortable. I don't have concerns with the neighbors, just the wife, but if she's watching with me, then I can make it almost as loud as I would be comfortable with. And when she's not home, as loud as I want.
05-09-02, 11:30 AM
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Well then you should go with the up (4ohm) position. Sweet speakers!
With lower impedance speakers the amp has to work harder to drive them. A good amp will have head room to cover loud noises or long bass sounds (at lower impedances). The fronts and center get most of the hard work in a system.
This rating is very confusing for people. You need to understand it is an average across the whole freq range. To make it more complicated in many cases the companies exaggerate this number. There are probably only a few freqs where you speakers will dip below 6 ohm. Also, I think that your MA's are closer to 4 ohm.
When designing an amp there are issues with different loads. With high impedance loads you need more voltage to drive the system. But if you have a low impedance load with this higher voltage the speaker may pull more power than the amp can give which causes clipping. This is why in the specs for your amp you see the wattage going up with lower impedance specs. So you either have to design the amp with lots of extra headroom (expensive) or switch the power supply, like you amp does.
If you ever have a doubt I would go with the 4 ohm setting. Because most companies inflate this rating (not mine though
)
With lower impedance speakers the amp has to work harder to drive them. A good amp will have head room to cover loud noises or long bass sounds (at lower impedances). The fronts and center get most of the hard work in a system.
This rating is very confusing for people. You need to understand it is an average across the whole freq range. To make it more complicated in many cases the companies exaggerate this number. There are probably only a few freqs where you speakers will dip below 6 ohm. Also, I think that your MA's are closer to 4 ohm.
When designing an amp there are issues with different loads. With high impedance loads you need more voltage to drive the system. But if you have a low impedance load with this higher voltage the speaker may pull more power than the amp can give which causes clipping. This is why in the specs for your amp you see the wattage going up with lower impedance specs. So you either have to design the amp with lots of extra headroom (expensive) or switch the power supply, like you amp does.
If you ever have a doubt I would go with the 4 ohm setting. Because most companies inflate this rating (not mine though
)
05-10-02, 12:49 PM
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impedance selector
As an added FYI to bfrank's excellent reply:
Many receivers and/or amps usually use this setting to affect protection concerns built within. When running higher impedance speakers, it is more difficult (certainly not impossible) for the amplifier to exceed its headroom and clip. Why is clippping Bad? Well, the individual transducers in your speakers (tweeters, woofers, ribbons, etc.) normally operate in an AC (alternating current) fashion moving forward and backward to reproduce sound. Your amp is what makes them do this. When you ask too much of your amp and send it into clipping, the AC becomes DC and bad things start to happen to amp and speakers. If run too long like this (which could be mere moments) permamnent damage will happen to amp and/or speaker. Usually resulting in "locked-up" or "frozen" driver components on the speakers and smoke from the amp circuitry and sometimes speakers as well. Protection circuits are often used to guard against damage to your amplifier (and your speakers as well). If you have A/B speaker selection (almost always designed for front left and right channels only) it affects protection aspects of the design when run in A+B mode.
In your case Blade, the ES line (which by the way stands for Elevated Standard) is more solidly built than the regular Sony products. And unless they have changed things design-wise, that setting only affects A+B operation. So stick with the 4ohm setting since you are not apparently running B speakers.
Why are there 4, 6, or 8ohm speakers? A 4ohm speaker system will sound louder than an 8ohm at the same volume level setting all other things being equal (on some products the aforementioned 4/8ohm switch will affect this principle). However, a few models of receivers and amplifers can only run 8ohm speakers. A 6ohm can be a good compromise for a speaker manufacturer giving a bit more oomph and still be compatible with MOST 8ohm only products. ...Or it could just be a matter of the speaker components used and how the're wired inside the box.
Abit wordy I know, but I hope it helps.
-Shawn
Many receivers and/or amps usually use this setting to affect protection concerns built within. When running higher impedance speakers, it is more difficult (certainly not impossible) for the amplifier to exceed its headroom and clip. Why is clippping Bad? Well, the individual transducers in your speakers (tweeters, woofers, ribbons, etc.) normally operate in an AC (alternating current) fashion moving forward and backward to reproduce sound. Your amp is what makes them do this. When you ask too much of your amp and send it into clipping, the AC becomes DC and bad things start to happen to amp and speakers. If run too long like this (which could be mere moments) permamnent damage will happen to amp and/or speaker. Usually resulting in "locked-up" or "frozen" driver components on the speakers and smoke from the amp circuitry and sometimes speakers as well. Protection circuits are often used to guard against damage to your amplifier (and your speakers as well). If you have A/B speaker selection (almost always designed for front left and right channels only) it affects protection aspects of the design when run in A+B mode.
In your case Blade, the ES line (which by the way stands for Elevated Standard) is more solidly built than the regular Sony products. And unless they have changed things design-wise, that setting only affects A+B operation. So stick with the 4ohm setting since you are not apparently running B speakers.
Why are there 4, 6, or 8ohm speakers? A 4ohm speaker system will sound louder than an 8ohm at the same volume level setting all other things being equal (on some products the aforementioned 4/8ohm switch will affect this principle). However, a few models of receivers and amplifers can only run 8ohm speakers. A 6ohm can be a good compromise for a speaker manufacturer giving a bit more oomph and still be compatible with MOST 8ohm only products. ...Or it could just be a matter of the speaker components used and how the're wired inside the box.
Abit wordy I know, but I hope it helps.
-Shawn
05-10-02, 09:46 PM
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Re: impedance selector
Originally posted by macsax
In your case Blade, the ES line (which by the way stands for Elevated Standard) is more solidly built than the regular Sony products. And unless they have changed things design-wise, that setting only affects A+B operation. So stick with the 4ohm setting since you are not apparently running B speakers.
In your case Blade, the ES line (which by the way stands for Elevated Standard) is more solidly built than the regular Sony products. And unless they have changed things design-wise, that setting only affects A+B operation. So stick with the 4ohm setting since you are not apparently running B speakers.
Thanks for that helpful and informative reply.
But just to be clear, I don't have a Sony ES reciever (I piggybacked my question on to someone else's thread
), I have Yamaha's RX 2095. It was, at the time, their top of the line A/V Reciever, so I would expect your advice to still be an accurate supplement to bfrank's prior recomendation.Thanks again and please continue to post.
-David
05-11-02, 09:53 AM
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I can add only one piece of advice to everything above:
* When you first hook up the speakers and send them a signal, check out how hot (or how not hot, as the case may be) your receiver gets. Do the same whenever you decide to play music/movies at the loudest volume you'd ever use. If the receiver ever gets significantly hotter than it did before you changed speakers, that's a good indication that you're pushing the limits of the built-in amps.
* When you first hook up the speakers and send them a signal, check out how hot (or how not hot, as the case may be) your receiver gets. Do the same whenever you decide to play music/movies at the loudest volume you'd ever use. If the receiver ever gets significantly hotter than it did before you changed speakers, that's a good indication that you're pushing the limits of the built-in amps.
05-11-02, 10:04 AM
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Thanks for the welcome aboard!
Mea Culpa Blade, sorry. Yamaha is also solidly built stuff. Especially at your level of product. I checked out the specs on the website. Nice feature set on this model (if you say that with a sleazy tone it can mean something completely different and if you thought that right off the bat...get your mind out of the gutter, you're blocking my view). The same should hold true. So Tsar Chasm: the ES stuff was directed to you. Again, my apologies.
What we want to know is how good is the power output performance at impedances lower than 8ohms. Here's a good barometer: check out the specs. I don't mean that sarcastically. Look at the power ratings. If the power and THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) ratings are listed at 20-20kHz (for example 100Watts .02%THD 20-20kHz (or some variation thereof)) this is an indicator that the company is making an effort to provide a more realistic spec and is more than likely using a grade of output components that will be stable at lower impedances. Don't be alarmed if the spec is at 8 ohms. Most companies do this because THD specs are usually better at 8. However, far too often companies are listing the spec at one frequency (example: 100Watts .05%THD 1kHz). This is fine if all you listen to is EMS warning tones, but we live in a world of music and soundtracks. Companies will specify at a single frequency because it is easier to get good performance at a single frequency than over an entire range. If it is listed this way it doesn't necessarily mean that your receiver sucks. The company is usually just trying to inflate its performance specs. So look for one more spec listing. Many companies will have an additional power listing, that is not frequency specific, at multiple impedances. Yamaha has an additional power specification for Blade's 2095 at 8, 6, 4, and 2ohms and the power goes up as the impedance goes down (this is why lower impedance speakers sound louder at the same volume setting; simply put, ohm's law states that when resistance goes down, power goes up). This is a dead giveaway that components stable at lower impedances are being used. If a power output is shown at 4 and 8ohms and is identical for each, than a switching power supply like the one bfrank mentioned is being used (Blade, by specs it looks like yours does not switch in this fashion so you're good). In which case, you are better off performance-wise setting your 4/8ohm switch for 8.
-Shawn
Mea Culpa Blade, sorry. Yamaha is also solidly built stuff. Especially at your level of product. I checked out the specs on the website. Nice feature set on this model (if you say that with a sleazy tone it can mean something completely different and if you thought that right off the bat...get your mind out of the gutter, you're blocking my view). The same should hold true. So Tsar Chasm: the ES stuff was directed to you. Again, my apologies.
What we want to know is how good is the power output performance at impedances lower than 8ohms. Here's a good barometer: check out the specs. I don't mean that sarcastically. Look at the power ratings. If the power and THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) ratings are listed at 20-20kHz (for example 100Watts .02%THD 20-20kHz (or some variation thereof)) this is an indicator that the company is making an effort to provide a more realistic spec and is more than likely using a grade of output components that will be stable at lower impedances. Don't be alarmed if the spec is at 8 ohms. Most companies do this because THD specs are usually better at 8. However, far too often companies are listing the spec at one frequency (example: 100Watts .05%THD 1kHz). This is fine if all you listen to is EMS warning tones, but we live in a world of music and soundtracks. Companies will specify at a single frequency because it is easier to get good performance at a single frequency than over an entire range. If it is listed this way it doesn't necessarily mean that your receiver sucks. The company is usually just trying to inflate its performance specs. So look for one more spec listing. Many companies will have an additional power listing, that is not frequency specific, at multiple impedances. Yamaha has an additional power specification for Blade's 2095 at 8, 6, 4, and 2ohms and the power goes up as the impedance goes down (this is why lower impedance speakers sound louder at the same volume setting; simply put, ohm's law states that when resistance goes down, power goes up). This is a dead giveaway that components stable at lower impedances are being used. If a power output is shown at 4 and 8ohms and is identical for each, than a switching power supply like the one bfrank mentioned is being used (Blade, by specs it looks like yours does not switch in this fashion so you're good). In which case, you are better off performance-wise setting your 4/8ohm switch for 8.
-Shawn
05-13-02, 03:22 AM
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Thanks bfrank,
Up until recently I was an independant manufacturer's rep for professional audio and video equipment. Where among many other duties, I was responsible for product and technology training. Prior to that I designed and sold professional and commercial audio and video systems for several years. And prior to that I worked at a genuinely good and solid independant HiFi store for several years. I'm always happy to help when I can.
-Shawn
Up until recently I was an independant manufacturer's rep for professional audio and video equipment. Where among many other duties, I was responsible for product and technology training. Prior to that I designed and sold professional and commercial audio and video systems for several years. And prior to that I worked at a genuinely good and solid independant HiFi store for several years. I'm always happy to help when I can.
-Shawn
05-13-02, 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by macsax
....This is a dead giveaway that components stable at lower impedances are being used. If a power output is shown at 4 and 8ohms and is identical for each, than a switching power supply like the one bfrank mentioned is being used (Blade, by specs it looks like yours does not switch in this fashion so you're good). In which case, you are better off performance-wise setting your 4/8ohm switch for 8.
-Shawn
....This is a dead giveaway that components stable at lower impedances are being used. If a power output is shown at 4 and 8ohms and is identical for each, than a switching power supply like the one bfrank mentioned is being used (Blade, by specs it looks like yours does not switch in this fashion so you're good). In which case, you are better off performance-wise setting your 4/8ohm switch for 8.
-Shawn
I hooked them up yesterday, left the switch at the 8 ohm position and it worked fine. Keeping in mind stevevt's advice, I kept checking the area above the heat sink and while it seemed a little warmer, it wasn't "hot."
Thanks for everyone's help!
-David
05-15-02, 03:24 AM
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May I add a question into this thread?
I got a pair of nice speakers from my friend (Ditton AV2, actually I haven't heard this brand before). They are rated at 4 Ohms.
My amp Pionner VSX-D939TX has a choice of 6 Ohms and 8 Ohms only. What setting should I use? Will it cause damage to my amp as the impedance of the speaker is lower then the setting inside the amp. For the about replies I got an impression that it doesn't hurt unless I turn on the speaker loudy.
Thanks.
I got a pair of nice speakers from my friend (Ditton AV2, actually I haven't heard this brand before). They are rated at 4 Ohms.
My amp Pionner VSX-D939TX has a choice of 6 Ohms and 8 Ohms only. What setting should I use? Will it cause damage to my amp as the impedance of the speaker is lower then the setting inside the amp. For the about replies I got an impression that it doesn't hurt unless I turn on the speaker loudy.
Thanks.
05-15-02, 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by MedicalKing
May I add a question into this thread?
I got a pair of nice speakers from my friend (Ditton AV2, actually I haven't heard this brand before). They are rated at 4 Ohms.
My amp Pionner VSX-D939TX has a choice of 6 Ohms and 8 Ohms only. What setting should I use? Will it cause damage to my amp as the impedance of the speaker is lower then the setting inside the amp. For the about replies I got an impression that it doesn't hurt unless I turn on the speaker loudy.
Thanks.
May I add a question into this thread?
I got a pair of nice speakers from my friend (Ditton AV2, actually I haven't heard this brand before). They are rated at 4 Ohms.
My amp Pionner VSX-D939TX has a choice of 6 Ohms and 8 Ohms only. What setting should I use? Will it cause damage to my amp as the impedance of the speaker is lower then the setting inside the amp. For the about replies I got an impression that it doesn't hurt unless I turn on the speaker loudy.
Thanks.
Welcome to the board
05-15-02, 11:46 AM
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Sounds like you don't get too bass crazy, which should keep you sailing smoothly along. I concur with bfrank; set it for 6. This should engage any precautionary protection if it is there. Also when you are up and running for the first few days, check on your receiver. Feel around the top of it. It should be warm but not hot to the touch.
-Shawn
A hearty welcome from me as well!
-Shawn
A hearty welcome from me as well!
05-15-02, 11:59 AM
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Thanks, macsax & bfrank
Personally I am a bass crazy... just my family... ^^
I have tried to run the speaker with 8ohm before (I forgot to check the impedance of the amp, so kept at default 8ohm), the top of the amp is a bit hot but still acceptable after 30mins of run.
I will try to switch to 6ohm tomorrow and see whether the temp will drop for something. It's too later now in my country (HongKong) in which I cannot 'burn' the speaker anymore :>
At the very begin I think that wrong impedance will burn the amp (due to ohm law) but after reading all the above posts I believe my idea is wrong (although there still a risk exist, but not as horribly as I think before) .
Thanks!
Personally I am a bass crazy... just my family... ^^
I have tried to run the speaker with 8ohm before (I forgot to check the impedance of the amp, so kept at default 8ohm), the top of the amp is a bit hot but still acceptable after 30mins of run.
I will try to switch to 6ohm tomorrow and see whether the temp will drop for something. It's too later now in my country (HongKong) in which I cannot 'burn' the speaker anymore :>
At the very begin I think that wrong impedance will burn the amp (due to ohm law) but after reading all the above posts I believe my idea is wrong (although there still a risk exist, but not as horribly as I think before) .
Thanks!
