DVD Josh

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For those who don't get the reference (who am I kidding, we all get the reference )

pinata242

Modded both and I keep the libraries distinct. I have thought about upping the ante and putting more 2-button libraries (SMS, GB/GBC, TGX16, etc) on the NES and some libraries that would benefit from the SNES controller (Genesis, GBA, etc) on the SNES. But I haven't got around to it yet.

Koby

I have a question...

Why are people interested in buying these to mod them to the effect of adding pirated roms to increase the limited catalogue of games?

If you're just going to have to added pirated copies to it to play, why not simply utilize the emulators on a PC? You can even buy usb dongles to utilize various console controllers if using modern controllers isn't your fancy.

Not judging or anything... I'm just really curious what the appeal is with pirating / modding these vs. PC?

PerryD

I have both systems, and I want to mod them, but not to add the entire catalog, I think that's silly, but perhaps to fill in titles that I loved that are missing, or the other games in the same series that were left out (e.g. Contra). But I'm too lazy right now to get on my computer to find what I need to do this, someday I'll get around to it.

DVDTalker76

You really don't see the difference between a little console you can take anywhere and running stuff on a PC?

We're talking largely about the same division between people who game mostly on PCs and people who much prefer to be on a console in the living room. Throw in a large dose of nostalgia specific to this particular Nintendo-branded box.

Jay G.

Well, the controllers for one. These are near perfect reproductions of the original controllers for the original consoles. And not everyone still has original controllers to adapt for PC use.

Also, it's a system and menu designed for easy user in front of a TV. Sitting on your couch in front of a TV playing these classic games is a different experience than in front of a PC.

Finally, people aren't opposed to paying for the content, and both systems have a lot of games that make it a good value for many people. If they weren't hackable at all, I'd say a lot of people would've still bought them and have been happy with the selection at hand. However, since they are hackable, why not add a few more games to it, even if it's just to put all the NES Classic games on the SNES Classic so you don't need to swap between consoles to play all the games you bought.

Koby

My laptop, tablet, or mobile phone are all easily portable and all capable of emulation. So yeah, I don't see the difference between emulation on a laptop and emulation on a NES Classic aside from the "menu" and controllers, in which controllers could still be utilized.
The laptop is also capable of connecting to a big screen TV via HDMI in the same way the consoles are. So it doesn't really answer the question as to what the appeal is to anyone who is willing to add pirated games to their modded "classic console".

Pretty sure buying the original controllers for some of these is cheaper on ebay and the like than buying the whole "classic consoles", if that is entirely the reason people are buying these. I haven't looked but maybe they even sell these updated classic controllers separately too in case you need a replacement.

As for sitting in front of a TV.... eh absolutely everyone I know has some sort of PC; whether it's a desktop, laptop, or mediabox connected to their living room TV, if not every TV in their house. So you can technically emulate the games in the same fashion with controllers using a laptop/desktop/mediabox on your big screen TV while sitting on your couch. Shoot, while we're at it I play all of my Steam games using controllers while sitting on my couch using my big screen TV in the same way I would any other console.

I've seen quite a bit of people on other communities talk about buying these simply to "collect" it, with no intention of actually opening the box or playing them. I can understand that. I can also understand the desire to buy it and add games to it too. I'm just asking what the appeal to doing that is besides the supporting Nintendo simply for the sake of it to have another machine to emulate things on. Because technically speaking, adding games to it is rather a gray-area... Would have been sweet if Nintendo had some store system on these so that you could purchase additional games and actually give money back to those who made them... but given their age a lot of those companies are probably long since defunct... Still though many games are available on the Nintendo store for download on the Wii U, etc.. So I find it a bit strange they didn't opt to roll with that as an option.

Jay G.

Well, I said it's one of the reasons, not that it's the only reason. And getting old controllers of eBay can be a gamble. You could end up with cheap Chinese knockoffs, or broken ones, or what have you, and you'd still need something to play them on, which means getting those USB adapters. And Nintendo is selling the Classic controllers separately, but they have a proprietary connector that only works with the Classics and the Wii Controller. So you'd still need an adapter.

This is known as "anecdotal evidence," and it's a logical fallacy. Just because something is true for your social circle doesn't mean it's true for everyone. You have to get a truly representative sample, otherwise it's "Dewey Beats Truman."

Based on my own anecdotal evidence I know plenty of people that don't have a PC attached to their PC, and only have media devices like Apple TV, Roku, etc. Sure I know a few people with PCs attached, but they're not the majority.

I think I touched on this earlier in the thread, but adding a Game Store to the Classics would've drastically increased the complexity of the hardware and software for the devices, which would've added to the cost and taken longer to develop it. Keep in mind that the NES Classic was basically just a stop-gap measure so Nintendo would have something to sell Holiday Season 2016, because nobody was buying the WiiU with the Switch on the horizon. They needed something simple out fast, and they thought it'd sell modestly. They released the SNES Classic due to the first's blow-up success, but that was largely a "slap the same board in a new shell, with different ROMs and a slightly updated firmware" refresh.

Adding a Store would've meant adding network capability, which means wifi, with means FCC approval, all of which adds cost. Then you need to build a store, which means servers, authentication, credit card processing, etc. Then you need to attract publishers to put their games on your platform. I actually don't think companies being "defunct" would actually be much of an issue, since most game companies have been bought and merged over and over, so most stuff is owned by a currently operating publisher. That's how they got the third-part titles for the Classics after all. However, publishers would be really concerned about piracy, which would have meant locking the Classics down as well as any current console before most would agree to publish on them, which then increased development time and costs. And then there's the licensing costs, and the likelyhood of a significant return, which may make publishers shy away from a device that merely sells a few million units.

And then there's perceived value to the consumer. Right now, see the "X number of games for Y dollars" and do "X/Y = Z dollars per game" and conclude the Classics are a good value. NES Classic is $60 for 30 games, or $2 a game. SNES Classic is $80 for 21 games, or near $4 a game. And that's not counting the value of the hardware. It doesn't even matter if some of those games don't personally appeal to someone, they still appreciate the value. And it was easy for Nintendo to load them with first-party titles for no licensing cost, with a few third-party titles for a small licensing fee. But would publishers be willing to sell games on the store for only $2? And even if they were, the perceived value changes. Suddenly consumers are more critical of the included games, like "how come my favorite game isn't on it?" They start adding the cost of buying the additional games from the store to their price for the system. And some would be resentful that they have to pay upfront for games they don't want, then wonder "why don't they remove some, or all of the included games and cut the price by half?" when the reality is that removing those games wouldn't significantly reduce the price. Would as many people have bought a $50 NES Classic that had no games?

So Nintendo originally didn't include a store likely because they didn't have time, and at no point was the a clear financial advantage to do so.

DVDTalker76

Yes. Again, there is quite obviously a very large, successful console market. It exists due to an entire demographic - correspondingly large - which chooses to game on consoles in the living room instead of PCs. To most of these people, a mini console will have intrinsically more appeal than anything on a PC.

tonyc3742

I haven't done it yet, but I want to.
I have had at least one PC for decades. I use it all the time. I do a little more gaming on it than I used to, but still not much, and none of it is "twitch" gaming - it's stuff like Heroes of Might and Magic, Pathfinder Adventures, etc. When I think "gaming", I think console/couch, and always have.

Mike86

Finally decided to grab one of these before they’re not available anymore. Knew what to expect basically having the Super Nintendo Classic but it’s still cool to have finally.

Koby

It wasn't about how many people do it or not. My point was simply that it is a possibility and about how the end result is still the same. Whether you connect a laptop via HDMI to a TV or a classic console... Both are portable (actually laptop would be even more portable considering it also has a built in screen lol but that's beside the point, we're discussing on big screen tv) and both offer a similar experience as both are using the same backend emulator and both are running pirated games if you're opting to add anything to the classic. Literally the only difference here is whether or not you're playing with a controller that looks like a NES controller or playing with some modern controller and is that difference enough appeal to warrant purchasing the classic. Obviously to some it is... But as someone on the fence about purchasing a classic, I was hoping for an answer that actually had more of a reason to make that purchase.

Jay G.

It's getting to that end result that's part of the problem: there's a lot more steps in going the PC route, acquiring and assembling several pieces of hardware and software, and the end result is only the "same" if you ignore the ease of the Classics' UI: Just turn on and start scrolling through games, pick one and start playing.

Just let Nintendo do all the hard work of assembling and configuring the hardware/software. Buy their box and it's unplack, plug in, and start playing.

Seriously, you sound like this article, except you're serious:
https://thehardtimes.net/harddrive/s...ver-shut-fuck/

Koby

*sigh* Okay, clearly you misunderstood the question with the side-stepping. I guess in a way I got my answer in that even those who bought it can't explain the reason I should, and thus saved myself some money.
I didn't ridicule or judge anyone as you make it out to sound with the link to the article. I asked a question, which you were unable to answer.
All I got was "it's the controllers, buy it for the controllers". You initially said that is only one of the reasons not the only reason, but at this point have yet to give any other reason.
What other reasons are there for someone to buy the classic over utilizing the emulator if they already have a capable device such as a PC always connected to the big screen?
This forum tends to have strict views towards piracy, so I was shocked to hear people opening discussing adding pirated games to their classic console, and curious how adding games to it is somehow viewed as less unethical than using an emulator any device.
Instead you go off claiming "anecdotal evidence" and "logical fallacy" when a certain possibility was described, as-if that somehow had any relevance to the point or the question.
It was never about who does this or who does that or how many... It's a simple question. One that was answered by the lack of an answer.

DVDTalker76

I absolutely had flashbacks to all the RetroPie bullshit back in 2016 as soon as I read Koby's post.

@Koby: Was honestly quite surprised you said you're on the fence about a Classic after your question. I don't know why you'd want to be talked into one when you don't seem to have any interest. Yes, as you said: all this stuff can be done elsewhere, and arguably better. It's also being done on the Nintendo Classics. If you're not interested in Nintendo Classics.. you're not interested.

Koby

I guess it was less that I was wanting to be talked into it and more that I wanted to confirm not buying one was the right decision for myself, but I wanted to understand the appeal and see if I was just missing the point or simply not understanding why they were doing so well. Like I understood why they were collectors items, but not so much as to why people would buy them to hack n add more games to them. I was just under the mindset that if someone was willing to pirate games onto the console, they'd just as well be willing to pirate on another device, and was hoping to understand the reasoning behind paying money for a device you intend to use to add pirated material to. Wasn't intending to start some kind of mudslinging contest. I tend to be rather terrible at putting my intent into words at times.

Does the NES Classic have accessories like the old gun for games like Duck Hunter? Now something like that would definitely entice a purchase. My first console as a child actually was a NES, even though I was only 1 when the SNES came out.

DVDTalker76

I really think most people are buying them just as Nintendo consoles. For the smaller group who are a bit technically inclined, the modding is a great bonus. The market for plug-and-play consoles tends to be pretty casual, so not a lot of these people are going to have an emulation setup under the TV already.

Personally, I always wanted an HTPC loaded up with all kinds of retro stuff but kept kicking it down the line for better parts.. lower costs.. lower power consumption.. So these come along, they're only $80 (I got the SNES) with controllers, I'd probably want one just for kicks anyway, AND some hackers set it up to accept thumbdrives for unlimited storage..? Absolute, complete no-brainer for me to do one up. Incredible value. Sure there's a horsepower ceiling, but it runs enough of what I wanted to check that box in my setup.

For your needs, though - doesn't sound like you need one. And no guns

LorenzoL

Since I'm the one that sparked the conversation about the modding, I'll explain my rationale behind it. I want the illusion of playing these games in front of a TV like you used to do when these systems first came out. Yes, you can download emulators on a PC or buy the remastered versions sold on the PSN, X-Box Live or Nintendo Digital Store. I have bought some of the remastered versions and will continue to do so. However, there are games that have not been "brought" back since the original release. The Classic versions looking like the original systems including the controllers, is a big plus for me to relive my youth.

BTW, I didn't have an NES growing up as my parents wouldn't buy me one but thankfully had friends who had one. I still have an original SNES with Super Mario Kart.

Thanks guys for answering my questions, I still haven't decided which one to mod but your responses were really helpful in terms of using the SNES Classic if I use only one system.

Paff

Yeah, I didn't think I was going too deep in the vault for that one.

Sonny Corinthos

Does any know of a place where I can send mine to get "more games added to it?" I suck at these things and most likely would screw the whole thing up.

pinata242

You really can't. Just follow the very simple directions.

DVD Josh

It's actually pretty impossible to screw it up. The mod software is super easy.

Obi-Wanma

You could send it to me, along with a fat check lol. Seriously though if you're that afraid to do it, I would do it if you sent it to me and paid return shipping. It's like everybody said though, the software pretty much does everything for you and it's impossible to screw up. Look at a couple of youtube videos if you haven't already and you should see that yourself. You don't even have to take anything apart.

Jay G.

Well, nobody can tell you why you should have one but yourself. We can only relate why ourselves or others have bought them.

I was responding to this question your originally posted:
You asked "why are people interested?" not "why should I be interested?" If the reasons given for why people own these aren't compelling for you, that's fine, but several reasons were given in addition to the controller, primarily being the ease of setup and use, and actually paying for the included games.

Again, here you're asking "someone," when it really sounds like you're asking "me". If someone already has a PC hooked up to their TV, then maybe they can manage the additional hassle of downloading/installing emulators and acquiring ROMs. However, many people, myself included, don't already have a PC connected to their TV, so the Classics are markedly easier, and even possibly less expensive, than buying a PC to connect to the TV for this purpose.

It's not any less unethical to add pirated games, but one person mentioned merging the NES Classic and SNES Classic libraries onto one device so that even though they bought and own both, they only need one hooked up. US Copyright law actually allows for backing up and porting software that you own. Others may own original cartridges, but want to load the ROMs for them to the Classic for ease of use (no swapping cartridges, modern TVs don't have composite inputs, etc.). But I don't think anyone is suggesting that it's ethically better to put a pirated ROM on a Classic than on a PC. However, people may buy them so they're at least legally purchasing the games that are available for sale.

Again, nobody can tell you why you personally should buy one, but those are reasons why others are.

The light gun on older consoles, including the NES zapper, only work on CRT screens due to the precise timing between the gun and the CRT beam, with LCD and OLED screens adding in just enough of a delay to screw up the timing.

Here's a good video that explains the issue, as well as a solution the guy came up with for using light guns with original consoles and modern TVs:

He sells his solution here:
https://www.lightgunverter.com/

For emulators, Wii Virtual Console used the Wiimote as a substitute for the light gun for Duck Hunt. Someone used the Dolphinbar accessory for PC to use a WiiMote with an NES emulator on their PC, although it creates crosshairs on the game, not sure if those can be eliminated:

Someone else crammed the guts of a Wiimote into a NES Zapper shell:

majorjoe23

Why spend $80 on the SNES Classic when you can install emulators on a Raspberry Pi and never shut the fuck up about it?

But seriously, I have my classics for ease of use, especially for my elementary school kids. They turn it on, pick the game and don't screw it all up like they do any time they use one of my computers.