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DVD Talk Forum Thread Wiki: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017
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Old 06-12-18, 09:33 PM   #8726
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

I always suspected that the console will be moving closer to the PC model.
You can purchase different gaming PCs of varying power and the games will play on all of them, you just adjust the graphic settings to match the power your PC has.

We're seeing more console games now giving those graphical options (ie. 4k/30, 1080p/60, etc). And backwards compatibility with the XBOX is now a default as they stick with the same basic architecture here on out.

This will allow MS to sell, say, 3 different consoles of varying power at different price points and all the games will play on all variations. We kind of have that now with the One S and the One X.
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Old 06-12-18, 09:47 PM   #8727
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Yeah, they've been working on a streaming-only kind of box (or a box with no disc drive anyway) for a long time according to Thurrott and others in the know. Seems like they've finally made some advancements to make it viable... by 2020. Heh.

One thing's for certain, though... whatever the next console is, you can pretty much guarantee that it'll be fully backwards compatible with everything that works on the XO today. MS seems to actually care, as a company, about preserving the ability to play legacy games on current hardware. For all their other faults (and depending on who you ask, there are many) it's one of the few things that they seem to be passionate about now.
Did they care initially though? Wasn't backwards compatibility on Xbox One S an after thought, only really pushed once they were already getting slaughtered in sales? Basically used it as a selling point to say, see, we have something different. That is my recollection of the situation.
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Old 06-12-18, 10:02 PM   #8728
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Yeah, I love how people assume we would be at the same point today if they were 'winning' this generation. This is the same company that wanted an all digital format so you couldn't re-sell your games and a forced camera with every system.

You also have to remember, if they have different powered systems next generation, we will run into the same issues we have now. Each game will have to run on all variations. So they are basically handicapping themselves in that respect if they have another low powered system just to hit a certain price point.
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Old 06-12-18, 10:07 PM   #8729
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
Did they care initially though? Wasn't backwards compatibility on Xbox One S an after thought, only really pushed once they were already getting slaughtered in sales? Basically used it as a selling point to say, see, we have something different. That is my recollection of the situation.
It got delayed due to the backlash (rightful or not) about the always online stuff, but they started two separate projects on it long before...

This is a really good article on it:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/10/...-compatibility

Quote:
It was 2007. One of those teams was working on PowerPC CPU emulation – getting 32-bit code, which the 360 uses, to run on the 64-bit architecture that the third-generation Xbox would be using. The other team, out of Beijing, started writing a virtual GPU emulator based on the Xbox 360 GPU architecture. “These were like peanut butter and chocolate,” Choudhry recalled. “[So we thought,] ‘Why don’t we put them both together?’”

Choudhry did just that, and so the first steps to Xbox One backwards compatibility were taken, long before the console had a name or anything remotely resembling final specifications.

As Durango crystallized, so too did plans for Xbox 360 compatibility on the new machine. “This was primarily a software exercise, but we enabled that by thinking ahead with hardware,” Gammill explained. “We had to bake some of the backwards compatibility support into the [Xbox One] silicon.” This was done back in 2011.
Preliminary tests showed that support for key Xbox middleware XMA audio and texture formats was extremely taxing to do in software alone, with the former, Gammill noted, taking up two to three of the Xbox One’s six CPU cores. But a SOC (system on chip) – basically an Xbox 360 chip inside every Xbox One, similar to how Sony put PS2 hardware inside the launch-era PS3s – would’ve not only been expensive, but it would’ve put a ceiling on what the compatibility team could do. “If we'd have gone with the 360 SOC, we likely would've landed at just parity,” he said. “The goal was never just parity.” So they built the XMA and texture formats into the Xbox One chipset.
You're right about one thing though. If MS hadn't got their asses handed to them, then the whole thing might have been different or even dropped entirely. Who knows.
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Old 06-12-18, 10:12 PM   #8730
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by mattysemo247 View Post
Yeah, I love how people assume we would be at the same point today if they were 'winning' this generation.
I don't see anyone saying that.
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Old 06-12-18, 10:20 PM   #8731
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

While I liked what I saw at E3, all this stuff (Gears 5, Halo 6, etc) has to be the last hurrah for the One. And all the studios they bought will probably take 2-3 years to get games out, thus hitting the next system.
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Old 06-12-18, 10:40 PM   #8732
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

I don't think anyone would deny that all the features Microsoft has brought out has been a result of them being far behind Sony this generation. That includes Backwards Compatibility or Game Pass. But hey, they're still awesome.
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Old 06-13-18, 03:22 PM   #8733
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by fumanstan View Post
I don't think anyone would deny that all the features Microsoft has brought out has been a result of them being far behind Sony this generation. That includes Backwards Compatibility or Game Pass. But hey, they're still awesome.
Not to get too philosophical or anything, but...
Losing the console race this generation has pushed MS to do more things that appear -- genuine or not -- pro-consumer, especially in experimenting with subscription options and backwards compatibility. Is it still all about making money? Probably. But the benefits are for the long game.

I get the pushback, and I say this as someone who was a total stan for MS when the XO was announced, I admit, and I still wish they had fleshed out the family sharing thing, but I've chilled on them, I swear...

but philosophically... I think backwards compatibility, ironically, is the most forward-thinking thing they've accomplished this generation, because of the way they accomplished it. It's not just "as good as the original" in some cases; it's better in every way. It's truer to the idea of "game preservation" (in the same sense of "film or music preservation" where the goal is to achieve the best possible quality while maintaining the intended presentation) than the kind of emulation or archiving (see: piracy) or "remasters" we've seen in the past. Some remasters (Halo MCC? Dishonored?) play like shit in some cases because too much got changed. Better to tweak the original (like RDR) than to make something worse.

If there's ever any desire to treat games as "art" worthy of standing next to paintings, music, and film... then making old games playable on new hardware should be a big focus. It's why I appreciate what RetroUSB and Analogue do with their NES/SNES clones, or how 35mm films are just as worthy of 4K HDR remasters as modern super hero films, or how precious art can be restored to its original condition (NOT THIS, THOUGH), or those Star Wars fans making a 4K version of the original unedited film. I just find the whole endeavor -- no matter WHO does it -- very admirable.

I'm sure Sony and Nintendo are thinking about and trying to make these things happen too... but MS has done genuine good for the artform by making it work as good as it does.

Fuck, I still sound like a stan.
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Old 06-13-18, 04:07 PM   #8734
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Agreed.
In the past I was against digital downloads and backward compatibility.
I'm a fan of it as MS has implemented them.
I do find myself playing BC games, and I buy tons of stuff via DD. (I still keep an eye out for sales, and rather than "gifting", I wish they implemented some sort of resale, sellback, or tradein mechanism.)
But since they're not the frontrunner, that has enabled/forced them to be creative, and they've done some really innovative things, quite well.
(Not sure i care about "console gaming on any device", though.)

I don't like the idea of multiple versions of hardware. I know we kinda have that now, but except for Kinect enabled games, if you have a 360, you can play any 360 game, if you have a One, you can play any One game. Having multiple hardware variations and multiple configs of software to run on them - that sounds to me like PC gaming, and one of the reasons I am not a strong/current PC gamer. (Publishers push current systems to the limit, because you can always upgrade your PC; which means next gen games have higher requirements, which means an upgrade, ad infinitum.) Maybe it won't be that extreme, maybe everything will be playable and fun (not just 'technically' playable), which won't be as bad.
(I also don't really care about portability. I know I'm old school, but I want my console attached to my TV. I'm not going to play Fallout 4 or Burnout on my phone. I have other games for my phone and my tablet.)
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Old 06-13-18, 04:15 PM   #8735
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

I think the BC thing is nice and all for game preservation, but isn't a huge selling point. They've said as much with their stats on the people who actually use the feature (which is why I also think Sony isn't wasting time with it, and Nintendo would rather just sell it to you again on the eshop). Personally I think it's cool, but I'm also the type of person that has a huge backlog. So if I can't find the time to play it on the original console it was built for, there is also a good chance I'm not going to get around to it on the current console
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Old 06-13-18, 06:23 PM   #8736
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by tonyc3742 View Post
In the past I was against digital downloads and backward compatibility.
Digital vs. physical is a huge issue for many. But why on earth would anyone be "against" backwards compatibility?
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Old 06-13-18, 09:46 PM   #8737
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by mattysemo247 View Post
I think the BC thing is nice and all for game preservation, but isn't a huge selling point. They've said as much with their stats on the people who actually use the feature
It's not a selling point 5 years into a console generation. The first two years, when game releases are lean, are a different story. Plus it helps cut the cord and potentially sell the old console to fund that new console purchase.

MS potentially laying the groundwork now and carrying this over for next gen could be a pretty big deal.
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Old 06-13-18, 10:17 PM   #8738
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Is it really though? Didn't Sony basically do the same thing when the PS3 launched and could play PS2 & PS1 games. I think Sony is getting some shit now (and rightfully so) since the PS4 is their first system that ignores that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad idea, it's basically what the IOS and Android stores have been doing all along. Buy a game once and play it on practically any device.
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Old 06-13-18, 10:36 PM   #8739
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattysemo247 View Post
I think the BC thing is nice and all for game preservation, but isn't a huge selling point. They've said as much with their stats on the people who actually use the feature (which is why I also think Sony isn't wasting time with it, and Nintendo would rather just sell it to you again on the eshop).
Really? I thought the stats showed the opposite, where a lot more people have logged some hours playing BC games then many people thought. The last bit was over 1 billion hours played.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/05/...-billion-hours

Also, I do think there are some pretty major exceptions to the belief that it only helps a few years in to a console's life span. Something like Red Dead Redemption being not only compatible, but looking and playing better then ever I recall boosted sales of an old game quite a bit when it became compatible. Big games like that always fans that itch to replay it, or appeal to new fans when sequels come out.

Don't get me wrong, it's probably not a huge selling point now since most people have the console they want, but for existing hours it's some excellent value added depending on the type of gamer.

Oh, and given the Fortnite drama, I imagine cross-play is another feature Microsoft certainly wouldn't have done if they were the industry leader but amenable to now.
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Old 06-14-18, 09:52 AM   #8740
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Yeah, I think the fact they really embraced cross play while Sony has turned a blind eye is a major win for them, and will probably end up biting Sony in the ass soon enough if they don't change their stance on it. Microsoft is laying the groundwork for their next generation in pretty substantial ways, and I really hope it works out for them and they stick with it.
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Old 06-14-18, 10:05 PM   #8741
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

someone wake me up when Enslaved becomes BC...
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Old 06-15-18, 01:50 PM   #8742
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

https://www.cdkeys.com/xbox-live/mem...%5BBoth+%25%5D

1 month of Game pass for $2 (new accounts only)
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Old 06-15-18, 01:56 PM   #8743
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

^ It's currently only $1 direct from MS:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xb...7ttc0k6l8/0001

3 days remaining on that deal, though.
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Old 06-15-18, 07:08 PM   #8744
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Hey, who wants $100 worth of Free-To-Play crap in a bundle for FREE????

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Old 06-15-18, 08:30 PM   #8745
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Does anyone have the new red controller? I'm curious if it has the rubber grips on the back. It's hard to tell from reviews and YouTube vids. The official description says "textured grip" whatever that means.

Spoilered pic for size:
Spoiler:
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Old 06-15-18, 09:17 PM   #8746
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

A couple of the reviews mention the grip and the style looks just like the Forza controller I have, so you should be fine.

It's also available at Microsoft if you want to avoid Gamestop. Not sure why they are calling it an exclusive.
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Old 06-16-18, 03:00 AM   #8747
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

"Textured grip" should be the little nibs in the plastic introduced with the white S controller, not full rubber coating like on the pricier editions.
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Old 06-16-18, 11:00 AM   #8748
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Hey, who wants $100 worth of Free-To-Play crap in a bundle for FREE????

SMITE Gold Bundle
That's the Games with Gold offer for 6/16 – 7/15. I was wondering what they were going to do with SMITE, since it's a F2P game. Hopefully it doesn't become a trend with GfG.
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Old 06-16-18, 08:18 PM   #8749
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

Hey, I just noticed that Need For Speed : Payback has gone to the Vault for EA Access. I was waiting for that one!
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Old 06-18-18, 07:32 AM   #8750
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Re: Xbox One: S $249 Now / X $499 November 7 2017

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Hey, I just noticed that Need For Speed : Payback has gone to the Vault for EA Access. I was waiting for that one!
Nice!! Almost pulled the trigger two months back... glad I waited.
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