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Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

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Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Old 08-29-14, 08:50 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Jay G.
I don't think this is true at all. Feminists, by definition, are focused on female issues and problems with inequality, etc, but I don't think any of them think that exclusively females are subject to negative stereotypes.
You need to visit the Feminist Frequency FB page as well as the site and watch the other videos. Sarkeesian and her supporters often like to use the phrase "but the mens" whenever it's brought up that there are male stereotypes as well. And she has gone on record several times stating that gender stereotypes are only negative when it comes to women.

Originally Posted by Jay G.
It's a bit like saying you don't like the charities and organizations that focus on treating & curing cancer because they assume that cancer is the only disease that affects people.
That's why her dismissive "but the mens" comments always bothered me, despite my support of her.

Originally Posted by Jay G.
That said, I thought that Sarkeesian did point out that a lot of stereotypes in games were feeding into a particular male stereotype, which is damaging to males as much as females. At least, that's the impression I got, if it wasn't ever stated explicitly.
She did point that out in the recent videos, which I found to be a refreshing change from her.

Originally Posted by Jay G.
This I can agree with. There's really nothing stopping someone else making a "Tropes vs. Men in Video Games" series, aside from the desire to do so.
This would be great and I have seen some videos to that effect but they ultimately turned out to be anti-feminist crap.

Last edited by RocShemp; 08-29-14 at 08:56 AM.
Old 08-29-14, 09:09 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by RocShemp
You need to visit the Feminist Frequency FB page as well as the site and watch the other videos. Sarkeesian and her supporters often like to use the phrase "but the mens" whenever it's brought up that there are male stereotypes as well. And she has gone on record several times stating that gender stereotypes are only negative when it comes to women.
I've seen the "but the mens" thing before somewhere on her site or blog or something, but that's specifically in reference to them being tired of have to deal with people shouting "men too" when discussing an issue. For example, when talking about rape and rape culture, someone will say, "men get raped too," as if that means it's not an act that predominately targets women and needs to be addressed as a gender issue.

It's a bit of a dismissive attitude, and it's not one I necessarily agree with, although one I understand. It can be hard to deal with the same BS arguments day after day, and at some point you just don't want to deal with them anymore. It does come off as hostile to the people who make those posts though, who maybe are genuinely unaware that their point has been addressed before times too numerous to count.


As for Sarkeesian saying gender stereotypes are only negative when it comes to women, I'd like to see a quote where she actually said/wrote that.
Old 08-29-14, 09:30 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Jay G.
As for Sarkeesian saying gender stereotypes are only negative when it comes to women, I'd like to see a quote where she actually said/wrote that.
It was in one (or more) of her older videos. I can't remember which one offhand since I saw her say it one day when I did a marathon session of all of her videos.

But, like I said, that and the dismissive "but the mens" comments (which I saw not in reference to rape but in reference to a makeup ad that made passing reference to plastic surgery) are the only things that irk me about her. I actually do enjoy most of her videos and like to hear what she has to say. I mean, if the worst anyone can say about her is that her game footage is sourced from other sites (big effin' deal) and that she once admitted during a seminar that she is not a gamer (it's a video of her that someone posted on youtube), then I don't see all the hatred for her and I do like that she takes the time to present her findings in as professional a way as possible.
Old 08-29-14, 09:53 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by RocShemp
It was in one (or more) of her older videos. I can't remember which one offhand since I saw her say it one day when I did a marathon session of all of her videos.
I'm going to assume you misheard or misunderstood her then.
Old 08-29-14, 10:54 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by RocShemp

However, men in a lot of games also tend to be one-note rage machines. Just look at those Gears of War games or the macho "rah rah" bullcrap writing of the Call of Duty games. Stereotypes abound to both genders.
Sorry, but as a Gears of War fan I have to comment. You'll never see a Gears game in a list of sexist games. Yes, it's over the top, but all the females portrayed in the games are at least as strong as the men. And no, they are not suggested to be lesbians or something like that. If I remember correctly, for most of the games the main writer was a female.
Old 08-29-14, 11:25 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by RocShemp
But, like I said, that and the dismissive "but the mens" comments
Can you please link to one of these?

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but I googled Sarkeesian "but the mens" and Sarkeesian "but the men's" and found nothing written by her. Is it something she only says in the videos?
Old 08-29-14, 11:35 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

I've watched a lot of her videos and never seen any of the comments being referred to.
Old 08-29-14, 11:43 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Groucho
I've watched a lot of her videos and never seen any of the comments being referred to.
The comments are on her facebook page - comments there can't be disabled, though they're sane commentators, mostly.
Old 08-29-14, 11:47 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Sorry, I'm talking about Sarkeesian saying "but the Men's" and saying that gender stereotypes are only bad if it's toward women.
Old 08-29-14, 11:51 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Raul3
Yes, it's over the top, but all the females portrayed in the [Gears of War] games are at least as strong as the men..
Am I missing something here?

The only way I could see that as possibly being true is if you're including the Berserker, Seeder and Locus Queen. The first game's only human female character was background eye-candy, and the second game's human females were prisoners and refugees, including the weak-as-they-come

Spoiler:
wife of DOM


Maybe you're talking about the last one or two games, which I never played because I sold my Xbox 360 right after playing part 3. And because part 3 sucked. It felt like an arcade game on free play, with difficulty spikes when it went out of its way to be unfair and cheap.

Last edited by dugan; 08-29-14 at 11:59 AM.
Old 08-29-14, 12:16 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by dugan
Maybe you're talking about the last one or two games, which I never played because I sold my Xbox 360 right after playing part 3. And because part 3 sucked. It felt like an arcade game on free play, with difficulty spikes when it went out of its way to be unfair and cheap.
They added playable female characters in part 3 and some of Judgment's campaign chapters actually have you playing as Sofia.
Old 08-29-14, 12:59 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by dugan
Am I missing something here?

The only way I could see that as possibly being true is if you're including the Berserker, Seeder and Locus Queen. The first game's only human female character was background eye-candy, and the second game's human females were prisoners and refugees, including the weak-as-they-come

Spoiler:
wife of DOM


Maybe you're talking about the last one or two games, which I never played because I sold my Xbox 360 right after playing part 3. And because part 3 sucked. It felt like an arcade game on free play, with difficulty spikes when it went out of its way to be unfair and cheap.
Anya is playable in part 3 though...
Old 08-29-14, 01:20 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Groucho
Sorry, I'm talking about Sarkeesian saying "but the Men's" and saying that gender stereotypes are only bad if it's toward women.
Yeah, I'm not sure if Sarkeesian herself has made any comments like that, and the phrase "but the mens" isn't exact, as it changes based on who is responding. Here's one comment from Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/femfreq/pos...al_comments=73
I am so sick of some guys who see or hear a woman discussing and calling out sexism who then get defensive and say "but what about men?" and completely derail the point. The point of this article is not simply about harassment online. We ALL agree online harassment and threats are wrong but it happens to women so much more often...
Again, they're not dismissing that some negative things (harassment, rape, etc.) don't also happen to men, but that the overwhelming majority of it happens to women, and that's what they're focused on.

Last edited by Jay G.; 08-29-14 at 01:47 PM.
Old 08-29-14, 01:33 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Sarkeesian does in fact point out how some of these tropes negatively affect males as well, so I think it's disingenuous to say she's denying the fact that there are negative male stereotypes. But as Jay G said, she's a feminist, so her main focus is going to be on women.
Old 09-09-14, 06:50 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Some interesting things discussed in this all-female podcast about how gamers are harrassing female game journalists (as well as Sarkeesian) and some "scandal" in the game journalism world they like to call Gamergate.

Click on the #Gamergate link in the You Tube video below to jump to that spot.

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Old 09-09-14, 07:03 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

I've been following #gamergate since this shit blew up. It's basically a bunch of entitled misogynistic man children who have decided to use the power of the internet to attack women under the guise of redeeming journalistic integrity. It's absolutely disgusting.
Old 09-09-14, 09:47 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Supermallet
I've been following #gamergate since this shit blew up. It's basically a bunch of entitled misogynistic man children who have decided to use the power of the internet to attack women under the guise of redeeming journalistic integrity. It's absolutely disgusting.
Talk about it! Those dudes are so transparent that it's laughable.
Old 09-10-14, 01:30 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Last week there was a slew of editorials against these people. From, oh, almost every major website. On around the same day.
Old 09-10-14, 01:39 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

I'd never even heard of this story before this podcast. Don't know how I missed it.
Old 09-10-14, 04:51 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by boredsilly
Talk about it! Those dudes are so transparent that it's laughable.
Apparently Adam Baldwin (yeah the Firefly actor) is one of them.

It makes me feel better to say fuck that guy.
Old 09-10-14, 09:35 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by dugan
Apparently Adam Baldwin (yeah the Firefly actor) is one of them.

It makes me feel better to say fuck that guy.
Yeah, apparently he's a real chauvinist and Tea-Partier to boot.
Old 09-10-14, 09:44 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

That wouldn't surprise me at all, there's a reason he's cast in the roles hes cast in
Old 09-10-14, 11:17 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by Supermallet
I've been following #gamergate since this shit blew up. It's basically a bunch of entitled misogynistic man children who have decided to use the power of the internet to attack women under the guise of redeeming journalistic integrity. It's absolutely disgusting.
Yep, and the bulk of it was manufactured entirely by 4chan. Then a bunch of hangers on and actual idiots joined in. Pretty gross.
Old 09-10-14, 11:18 AM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Originally Posted by dugan
Last week there was a slew of editorials against these people. From, oh, almost every major website. On around the same day.
Yep, which hurt everyone's feelings. Poor, shitty gamers got their feelings hurt by being called out on their bad behavior. Aww.
Old 09-10-14, 12:12 PM
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Re: Kickstarter: Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

I actually have a friend who's been parroting the comments about improving gaming journalism and whatnot, I told my friend that if that's really their goal, they need to separate themselves from the asshats who are talking about hate raping Zoe Quinn.

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