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DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   Video Game Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk-15/)
-   -   Steam Machine - coming 2026 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/599532-steam-machine-coming-2026-a.html)

Jay G. 01-08-14 01:06 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Decker (Post 11970605)
I don't doubt that. It's just I think they went too far outside the box with this design. There's a reason we control cars almost exactly the same way we did in 1950 : it's the best system of input that works.
Is it the best system? Or is it the one everyone is so used to that changing it, even to a method objectively better, would require too much of a learning curve for everyone to relearn how to drive, making performance an issue in the short term?

I'm thinking of things like how the US has stubbornly rejected switching to metric, despite it being much easier to learn and figure out. Or how we still use QWERTY keyboard arrangements instead of supposedly better ones like Dvorak.

Before the iPhone, the keypad was the best way to use a phone for decades, going back to touch tone. Now smartphones are phasing out nearly all physical buttons. There is a bit of a learning curve when switching to touch-based phones, and some people still don't like it, but it happened.

RocShemp 01-08-14 01:29 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 11970601)
The idea for these Steam Machines is for people not comfortable building their own PCs, or using PCs in general for gaming. Also, some of the Steam Machines are in a compact form factor to more easily fit next to TV and with the other home theater equipment, form factors that aren't so readily available or easy to assemble for home builders.
The problem with that logic is that pre-built gaming rigs already exist (in a variety of prices). The only thing Steam Machines bring to the table is a new OS (that you can download for free) and and a weird controller that is a poor substitute for the already available options of a 360 controller and/or a mouse-keyboard combo.

Drexl 01-08-14 01:37 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 11970630)
Before the iPhone, the keypad was the best way to use a phone for decades, going back to touch tone. Now smartphones are phasing out nearly all physical buttons. There is a bit of a learning curve when switching to touch-based phones, and some people still don't like it, but it happened.
I'd say a keypad is still better, but a touchscreen is an acceptable compromise to make the screen as large as possible while keeping the device as small as possible. If the buttons were dedicated (like in a wall phone), I'd want the keypad.

taffer 01-08-14 01:48 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I say we should bring back rotary phones!

http://i40.tinypic.com/hx11xx.jpg

Anyway, I thought the Steam controller's weird input was supposed to make it more precise than traditional analog sticks? Yet people are saying the 360 controller is still better? Maybe they haven't used it enough to get comfortable with it yet.

Jay G. 01-08-14 01:54 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11970667)
The problem with that logic is that pre-built gaming rigs already exist (in a variety of prices). The only thing Steam Machines bring to the table is a new OS (that you can download for free) and and a weird controller that is a poor substitute for the already available options of a 360 controller and/or a mouse-keyboard combo.
It doesn't really matter if the OS is available for free, most people don't have the know-how or confidence to install an OS on their own. Having a preconfigured machine pre-loaded with SteamOS is enough of an advantage for these consumers.

And again, the idea with the controller is that it's better than having to juggle three other devices, especially in a living-room TV situation. Whether or not it's a "poor substitute" is a matter of opinion, and for most right now, conjecture.

If you're hardcore enough to be able to build your own PC, install an OS, and juggle three input devices while using it on your living-room PC, then yes, the Steam Machines don't have anything to offer you. That doesn't mean there isn't a market for it though.

Originally Posted by Drexl (Post 11970676)
I'd say a keypad is still better, but a touchscreen is an acceptable compromise to make the screen as large as possible while keeping the device as small as possible. If the buttons were dedicated (like in a wall phone), I'd want the keypad.
I don't really want to get into a debate on which is "better." My point was just that the length of time a form of input is a standard doesn't really have any bearing on whether it's the "best" or not, or whether a newer input method can be introduced and become adopted by a wide swath of the population.

Jay G. 01-08-14 02:02 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by taffer (Post 11970688)
Anyway, I thought the Steam controller's weird input was supposed to make it more precise than traditional analog sticks? Yet people are saying the 360 controller is still better? Maybe they haven't used it enough to get comfortable with it yet.
Yes, and the IGN review mentions that possibility.

This review is more favorable, going into the initial discomfort with the controls that improved to the point where the reviewer felt it was more accurate than an Xbox controller:
http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/...1212868/review
At first, playing a shooter like Metro: Last Light felt almost too precise, jumpy even. For the first minute or two my reticle was flying all over the screen, like a mouse with the sensitivity cranked too high.

This was by design; the controller had been configured for the kind of quick aiming speed you need in a first-person shooter. The sensitivity was adjustable, and other demo units playing different genres of game had different control configurations.

I trusted the Valve engineers and didn't fool with the sensitivity. My faith was well placed, I was quickly sighting up targets and taking them out with speed and precision that felt somewhere between an Xbox controller and my preferred method of destruction: the mouse.
Another review:
http://www.stuff.tv/steam-box/ces-20...ontroller/news
Our first impressions suggest that while it's certainly an accurate control device, it takes some getting used to – and you have to be prepared to put in the time to learn a whole new control scheme.

Other hands-on reviews:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/steam-...r_Games_review
http://www.digitaltrends.com/game-co...steam-machine/
http://www.t3.com/reviews/valve-steam-controller-review

Drexl 01-08-14 02:10 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by taffer (Post 11970688)
Anyway, I thought the Steam controller's weird input was supposed to make it more precise than traditional analog sticks? Yet people are saying the 360 controller is still better? Maybe they haven't used it enough to get comfortable with it yet.
It will depend on the game. For platformers, generally a D-pad (2D) or analog stick (3D) would be better. While the Steam controller may handle it better, I remember that DS port of Mario 64 that used the touchscreen to simulate analog control - I HATED it. With the Steam controller, there is also no D-pad so it has to be simulated with the touchpad. It won't provide the same kind of feedback or even work the same way as a real D-pad.

What they should have done, IMHO, was create a traditional 360-type controller but with a touchpad instead of a right analog stick. There was no need for two of them, and certainly not at the expense of a real D-pad and well-placed buttons.

taffer 01-08-14 02:20 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I just thought of something. With Playstation Now streaming, I wonder if it would be possible to use a Steam controller with that?

Jay G. 01-08-14 02:27 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by taffer (Post 11970733)
I just thought of something. With Playstation Now streaming, I wonder if it would be possible to use a Steam controller with that?
It'd have to be on something that supports both Playstation Now and the Steam controller. Playstation Now is only initially going to be supported on PS4, PS3, Vita, and 2014 Sony Bravia TVs, and as far as I know none of those will have support for the Steam Controller.

taffer 01-08-14 02:38 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 11970748)
It'd have to be on something that supports both Playstation Now and the Steam controller. Playstation Now is only initially going to be supported on PS4, PS3, Vita, and 2014 Sony Bravia TVs, and as far as I know none of those will have support for the Steam Controller.
Isn't the Steam Controller just USB? Most TVs nowadays have USB. Will a TV even recognize a controller with no console? I never tried it, but I guess it would have to recognize it if the new Bravias can stream without a console.

Jay G. 01-08-14 02:44 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by taffer (Post 11970768)
Isn't the Steam Controller just USB? Most TVs nowadays have USB. Will a TV even recognize a controller with no console? I never tried it, but I guess it would have to recognize it if the new Bravias can stream without a console.
The Steam Controller prototypes are USB, but that might not be the only connection possible when they go into production.

However, just because a device has a USB connection, doesn't mean a TV with a USB port can recognize it. The Steam Controller is markedly different than a traditional controller; I don't know how its two touchpads would map to something not designed to handle it.

The new Bravia TVs reportedly work with a PS3 controller plugged in via USB, at least according to the picture on this article:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/7/528...n-now-hands-on

However, I doubt the Bravia TVs support Xbox controllers.

RocShemp 01-08-14 08:53 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 11970696)
It doesn't really matter if the OS is available for free, most people don't have the know-how or confidence to install an OS on their own. Having a preconfigured machine pre-loaded with SteamOS is enough of an advantage for these consumers.
But gaming rigs with a pre-loaded and/or customized OS have been available for years. My point is that the Steam Machines are bringing nothing new to the table beyond the controller. Yes, the OS is new but if this is for people who don't want to build their own rig, the options already abound. Steam Machines should have been a standard not another in a myriad of options that only serve to alienate people who are too overwhelmed by the options available in terms of gaming PC's to ever buy one of their own (let alone build one).

Decker 01-08-14 09:19 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Drexl (Post 11970718)
What they should have done, IMHO, was create a traditional 360-type controller but with a touchpad instead of a right analog stick. There was no need for two of them, and certainly not at the expense of a real D-pad and well-placed buttons.
Or a controller with two analog sticks, good D-pad, well-placed buttons and a touch pad


I'm still a little fuzzy about what the Steam controller is capable of doing that the item above can't.

taffer 01-08-14 09:33 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Decker (Post 11971251)
I'm still a little fuzzy about what the Steam controller is capable of doing that the item above can't.
The Steam controller is supposed to be more precise, like a mouse, compared to analog sticks. Although it apparently has a pretty steep learning curve based on what people with beta units are saying.

RocShemp 01-08-14 09:38 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by taffer (Post 11971270)
The Steam controller is supposed to be more precise, like a mouse, compared to analog sticks. Although it apparently has a pretty steep learning curve based on what people with beta units are saying.
I don't mind that they used touch pads but the radically different button scheme is probably what most have trouble with, even after growing acustomed to the response of the touch pads.

Jay G. 01-08-14 09:44 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11971214)
But gaming rigs with a pre-loaded and/or customized OS have been available for years. My point is that the Steam Machines are bringing nothing new to the table beyond the controller. Yes, the OS is new...
That's the big thing; the inclusion of a new OS that should hopefully provide an easy maintenance box for playing games on. It's the combination of being pre-built, pre-installed, with the specialized OS and controller.

Companies have been trying to push TV-focused PCs for years. Hell, Microsoft built in their Media Center into editions of XP and up for home users for years. But Windows is just too high maintenance and not quite customized for TV use, not to mention the potential controller mess of having games designed for either Keyboard/mouse or traditional controller.

Take each individual element of a Steam Machine and pick it apart, and maybe the machine as a whole isn't appealing for that one element. But it's all the elements combined to hopefully provide a near-console experience for PC games on the TV that makes it appealing.

Originally Posted by Decker (Post 11971251)
I'm still a little fuzzy about what the Steam controller is capable of doing that the [PS4 controller] can't.
For one, the PS4 touch pad isn't that well situated for two-hand use, like, say, using the touch pad and one of the analog sticks at the same time.

See the below video at the 1:36 and 3:36 marks:


http://youtu.be/eeAjkbNq4xI?t=1m36s

http://youtu.be/eeAjkbNq4xI?t=3m37s

The alternating touch pads to move the same mouse cursor mode looks really interesting and fast, and not something that can be replicated by the PS4 controller.

Jay G. 01-10-14 02:33 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Why Valve thinks you'll want a Steam Machine
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/9/5292...-steam-machine
When asked how the Steam Machines would compete with existing living room entertainment systems like the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, [Valve co-founder Gabe Newell] explained that Valve's foray into the living room is less about competing with consoles and more about how the company and its user base can benefit from it.

Steam Controller hands-on: It's only weird until it works
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/9/5290...valve-ces-2014
Valve's new Steam Controller is unlike any other gamepad we've ever used. At first, it's kind of a clumsy, alien experience trying to come to grips with Valve's solution for bringing control of PC games to the living room. But after spending some time with the Steam Controller at CES, its unusual design starts to make sense and, soon, feel natural. And then, it clicks.

Valve is working on native support for the Steam Controller in DOTA 2:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/8/5289...eam-controller
The real solution will come with the roll out of Steam Controller API support in Steamworks, an update Bellinghausen said Valve plans to give developers soon... With proper controller integration, Valve believes it can make even the most complex games playable on Steam Controller....

"Team Fortress 2 players who are really happy with their mouse and keyboard, we're in no way saying that's changing or going away," he said."What we're trying to do is find a way to get close to that performance, but kick back on your couch. That's the goal, to get close to that performance level."

fumanstan 01-15-14 01:46 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Dropping the touch screen?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/15/s...oller-changes/

RichC2 05-06-14 08:17 AM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Looks like iBuy will be scaling back the graphics card in their $499 model:

http://www.woot.com/offers/cruel-tea...ef=cnt_wp_1_11

Matthew Chmiel 05-06-14 07:46 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by RichC2 (Post 12098440)
Looks like iBuy will be scaling back the graphics card in their $499 model:

http://www.woot.com/offers/cruel-tea...ef=cnt_wp_1_11
Wait, what?

I was under the impression that the $499 model of the iBuyPower machine was originally meant to have integrated graphics and more expensive models and customizations were set to have dedicated. Woot says 250X yet various reports from CES mentioned both the 260X, 270X, and the 290X at that $499 price point.

Until iBuyPower says, "Here's what you get at $499," I won't believe it.

Until we actually see a goddamned Steam Machine for sale, I won't believe anything.

Dan 05-27-14 09:31 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Controller delayed until 2015.
2015
(2+0)/(1+5)
2/6
1/3
0.333333333

Half Life 3 confirmed!!

mhg83 05-27-14 09:57 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
They probably got annoyed by the constant Harassment and said it to shut fans up :lol:

Matthew Chmiel 06-12-14 03:35 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
http://www.alienware.com/alpha

Alienware announced their first Steam Machine that will launch at the end of the year. However, with Windows 8.1 and a wireless 360 controller included. :lol:

What does $549 get you?
  • Intel Core i3 Haswell processor
  • Custom Nvidia “Maxwell”-based GPU with 2GB of dedicated GDDR5 memory
  • 500GB SATA 3 HDD
  • 4GB of 1600MHz memory
  • Dual-band Wireless-AC 1x1 with Bluetooth 4.0
  • HDMI-out, HDMI-in (with pass-through), Gigabit Ethernet, optical audio out, two USB 3.0 ports, two USB 2.0 ports
You'll also be able to configure the Alpha with options including Core i5 and i7 processors, 8GB of RAM, and 1TB or 2TB hard drives.

Like anyone, I'd wait until the Steam OS and the controller are ready for prime time.

Dan 06-12-14 03:50 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 12137090)
Like anyone, I'd wait until the Steam OS and the controller are ready for prime time.
:lol: yeah, 'cause that's going to happen. ;)

dsa_shea 06-12-14 03:54 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
The ready for prime time version will include a copy of Half Life 3.

Jay G. 06-12-14 04:31 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 12137090)
http://www.alienware.com/alpha

Alienware announced their first Steam Machine that will launch at the end of the year. However, with Windows 8.1 and a wireless 360 controller included. :lol:
Well, it's not officially a Steam Machine, since Valve has delayed that branding until next year, when the Controller is finalized.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/0...ed-until-2015/

I'm guessing Alienware decided they had put too much money into this model to cancel it, and it'd be too expensive to delay it, so just release it as a Windows-based machine. It was expected that at least some of the Steam Machines would come dual-boot anyway.

I'm guessing the agreement with Valve precludes them from including SteamOS pre-installed, but end users can do that themselves after buying it, then buying a Steam controller separately once it's released.

Jay G. 07-23-14 04:53 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
A file hidden in the most recent Steam client beta suggests that an analog joystick may be added to the Steam Controller:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/0...am-controller/

Drexl 07-23-14 05:38 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 12177676)
A file hidden in the most recent Steam client beta suggests that an analog joystick may be added to the Steam Controller:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/0...am-controller/
I still don't like it. I'm guessing you're supposed to move with the stick and then use the left touchpad as "buttons" to select weapons or something? There's still no real D-pad.

Unless they really want to accommodate lefties that may want to aim with it, I don't see why they need a left touchpad. Just make this thing like a 360 controller but with a touchpad on the right instead of an analog stick, and add a couple of extra non-gameplay buttons in the middle so we can take screenshots, push to talk, etc.

Or they could make it modular like the Phoenix Revolution controller.

fumanstan 06-04-15 05:51 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
This is finally a thing.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/4/8727...ne-launch-date

The Alienware versions just look like the current Alpha, although I heard the current hard drives were only 5400rpm and these are at least 7200.

kgrogers1979 06-05-15 09:31 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by fumanstan (Post 12499881)
This is finally a thing.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/4/8727...ne-launch-date

The Alienware versions just look like the current Alpha, although I heard the current hard drives were only 5400rpm and these are at least 7200.
Can you install Windows on a Steam Machine? SteamOS is Linux, and so it won't run games that don't have Linux versions. I'm not sure how many games don't have a Linux version. Maybe most newer games do, but what about older games like the original Bioshock, Crysis, Witcher, Arkham Asylum, etc. Honestly, I would just rather have Windows since it can do more than just play games (like Office and such). That's the biggest downside to a Steam Machine in my opinion. That's why I like the Alpha more because it is essentially a Steam Machine albeit with Windows instead of SteamOS. That plus the Alpha comes with an Xbox 360 controller instead of that Steam controller which I'm not entirely sold on it being a good controller. It seems more like a gimmicky controller like the Wiimote to me.

Matthew Chmiel 06-05-15 09:48 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
To be honest, $749 isn't bad for a quad-core i7 machine that you don't have to build yourself.

kgrogers1979 06-05-15 10:08 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 12500880)
To be honest, $749 isn't bad for a quad-core i7 machine that you don't have to build yourself.
Yeah, but the GPU is still an 860m. What's the point of having a really good CPU but a mediocre GPU? Wouldn't that be a bottleneck?

I'm still trying to decide whether I want to get an Alpha, a Steam Machine, or build my own mini ITX machine. Building my own means I can build something at the same price but with better performance, but even an ITX machine won't fit nicely in my TV stand without making some adjustments. (I want this as an HTPC so fitting into my TV stand is essential.) The Steam Machine or Alpha definitely will fit in my TV stand, and they come prebuilt so I don't have to worry about that junk, but the performance to price ratio isn't good. Prebuilt definitely appeals to me since I have very little technical knowledge, and I am very worried I will mess something up if I try to build my own. It's a tough decision.

edstein 10-16-15 05:30 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
We received our Steam Controller today. Initial impressions are the build quality is pretty good although not as good as a PS4 or XB1 controller. Game testing is in progress. More reviews to come.

fumanstan 11-13-15 01:37 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Performance apparently isn't so great compared to Windows at the moment.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/1...teamos-gaming/

chuckd21 11-13-15 01:39 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Is it still a rumor?

Decker 11-12-25 01:30 PM
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Originally Posted by chuckd21 (Post 12644189)
Is it still a rumor?
Not any more!

New Steam Box coming in 2026. No pricing yet.

Maxflier 11-12-25 03:12 PM
Re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I hope you aren't required to use that hideous Atari Jaguar-like controller.

RocShemp 11-12-25 10:27 PM
Re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I've been wishing/hoping for a new Steam Machine made totally in-house. I hope it doesn't disappoint.

Originally Posted by Maxflier (Post 14669646)
I hope you aren't required to use that hideous Atari Jaguar-like controller.
I doubt it. Doesn't bug me, since it's basically the Seam Deck with the screen amputated.

Decker 11-13-25 11:30 AM
Re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Crucial accessory announced :

Dan 01-09-26 03:40 PM
Re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Potential pricing has leaked from a Czech retailer, so there’s a chance this gets adjusted a bit.

$950 - 512gb storage
$1070 - 2tb storage

Both have 8gb of VRAM.


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