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-   -   Steam Machine - coming 2026 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/599532-steam-machine-coming-2026-a.html)

flashburn 09-27-13 01:18 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
How can you hate a controller before even getting your hands on it?

fumanstan 09-27-13 01:21 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
PS3 Boomerang controller? :)

Matthew Chmiel 09-27-13 01:22 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 11850640)
Seems like the same mapping you'd expect and what all of we console (or controller) players used in Portal 2.

People play Valve games on consoles? -ptth- ;)

While I own the PS3 edition of Portal 2 (because it came with a $20 Wal-Mart gift card and obviously a digital copy of the game for use on Steam), I tried playing it once on the console for my friend to get an achievement and I hated it. I couldn't get used to the controller layout for the game, which goes back to my experience of playing The Orange Box on 360 and having a similar experience.

I feel Valve games are experienced the best on the master race. :)

I'm willing to give the Steam controller a chance. Valve can't do no wrong, right?

Dan 09-27-13 01:22 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by flashburn (Post 11850653)
How can you hate a controller before even getting your hands on it?

Just because. Plus, I was being dramatic. I'm sure it's fine... I'm just really not a fan of trackpads. Maybe Valve found some magical way to make their trackpads better than sticks, but it's fair to speculate that that's not going to work out for everyone. It just seems like a really odd choice done solely to differentiate it from "the usual" controllers from MS, Sony, and Nintendo, but that's just my opinion; nothing more. Good for them for trying. :shrug:

RichC2 09-27-13 01:23 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Sticks suck for accuracy so it makes sense as to why they'd change it. It will depend on how good the trackpads are, as they vary an incredible amount on laptops. And frankly this is the only logical choice if you're going to have gamers playing against PC gamers in FPS, and playing an RTS game at all, and keep it a controller.

There are 6 "trigger" buttons on the controller (two bumper, two trigger, two back) so the basics are covered, this obviously won't work well for fighting games or 2D platformers, but it should still be compatible with other pads as well.

Edit: After I said that, I remembered the trackpad is "clickable", if you can define zones on it then actually 2D would work just fine.

fumanstan 09-27-13 01:26 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Trackpads might be a bit better for control, but I still think they're a good amount worse then using your entire hand on a mouse. I'm trying to picture using my thumb on a trackpad instead of a thumb stick for FPS control, and I just can't imagine that it will be a revelation or anything.

pinata242 09-27-13 01:26 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 11850663)
Valve can't do no wrong, right?

Ummm... no...?

RichC2 09-27-13 01:28 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by fumanstan (Post 11850669)
Trackpads might be a bit better for control, but I still think they're a good amount worse then using your entire hand on a mouse. I'm trying to picture using my thumb on a trackpad instead of a thumb stick for FPS control, and I just can't imagine that it will be a revelation or anything.

I've used a trackpad with my thumb before, getting to a specific spot on the screen is still substantially easier than it is on an analog stick, but I agree with you it'd still be hard to compete with a whole-hand mouse control.

pinata242 09-27-13 01:29 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Is any serious competitor going to sit on the couch in the living room?

It's a bridge and an experiment. You can still always use the controllers you use today for Big Picture mode.

Music 09-27-13 01:34 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
yes

RichC2 09-27-13 01:35 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Of course. I was thinking about it though and some other things I like:

On the current X360 (and PS3) controller configs, there are many games where you have to leave the Analog Stick with the left hand to hit the D-Pad to activate features. Since the Touchpad is a button and can read where you're touching it, clicking in different regions of the Touchpad would effectively remove the need to do that.

The same goes for the right Touchpad, different regions could technically correspond to ABXY, and they could be clicked just the same. The looks of the Touchpad make it seem like it would have some sort of response to clicking vs. just touching.

ABXY buttons on the controller itself can be used for whatever, same goes for the touch screen. Then you have 6 triggers on the back, and those 3 buttons on the bottom. There are plenty of options here, curious to see how it works out.

dugan 09-27-13 01:36 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I predict that a lot of people are going to buy Steam Machines and immediately install Windows on them.

Also, the controller looks like two NES MAXes combined with a Dreamcast controller. With a combination like that, you can't fail.

Drexl 09-27-13 03:38 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Wow, I certainly will be avoiding that controller. The trackpads bring back bad memories of that Mario 64 port for the DS, which had you control Mario with the touchscreen and made the game a lot harder.

RocShemp 09-27-13 06:49 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 11850646)
I hate trackpads, so this controller having two of them (instead of sticks, which would have made a shit-ton more sense, IMO) makes me hate it.

Didn't they once have an idea for a modular controller? I think that would be best so you could swap sticks for the pads. But my main concern is the button configuration. It's too different from the norm. I think I'll stick with my 360 controller (unless they make that incompatible with SteamOS).

fumanstan 09-27-13 08:22 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
We're supposed to hear more about the Xi3 "Piston" on Monday too.

http://kotaku.com/well-learn-more-ab...n-m-1414219833

RocShemp 09-27-13 10:41 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I wonder if SteamOS will work with Origin dependent games or if EA will decide to be dicks and come up with an OriginOS.

Dan 09-28-13 01:43 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11851040)
I think I'll stick with my 360 controller (unless they make that incompatible with SteamOS).

Well, SteamOS is some form of Linux, so they'd have to specifically include support for it. Are they going to do that even though they want people to try out their new controller? I hope so.

K&AJones 09-28-13 08:05 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by fumanstan (Post 11851122)
We're supposed to hear more about the Xi3 "Piston" on Monday too.

http://kotaku.com/well-learn-more-ab...n-m-1414219833

Yes...and hopefully will shed more light on hardware specs, price range and what options. Going back when these "Piston Boxes" were first revealed, one area that perked my interest was the ability to upgrade various parts simply switching out cards. If this can be accomplished with a simple "P&P" feature it might attract a cross gamer for those who like simplicity of hardware yet crave pc power with easy upgradable hardware.

fumanstan 09-28-13 09:38 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11851226)
I wonder if SteamOS will work with Origin dependent games or if EA will decide to be dicks and come up with an OriginOS.

I'd be really surprised if they manage to make it work with games that aren't directly supported in Steam. If it doesn't work with EA or Blizzard games for instance, that could be a big negative.


Originally Posted by Dan (Post 11851301)
Well, SteamOS is some form of Linux, so they'd have to specifically include support for it. Are they going to do that even though they want people to try out their new controller? I hope so.

I think they've said it would support a variety of gamepads already, I have a hard time believing they wouldn't have drivers for the most popular one on PC.

fumanstan 09-28-13 10:00 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Some developer impressions of the controller -

http://kotaku.com/valves-controller-...pre-1415579308


"This sounds weird, but it's almost like rolling two weighted trackballs that are too large to actually fit into the controller," Lambe said as he tried to explain what it's like to have one's thumbs on those two trackpads. "For camera controls, slide one thumb to the right, and you'll feel this ticking, like you're turning a physical control. Flick your thumb quickly, and this imaginary physical thing reacts like something with weight to it—the 'trackball' continues to roll for a bit, eventually coming to a rest. And since it's all controlled through the software, the same trackpad then becomes more like a mouse or a laptop trackpad when you're navigating through menus. Dynamic!"P

I received similar positive impressions of the controller's haptic feedback from Klei's Jamie Cheng who had not gone hands-on with the controller but whose colleague had. "He told us that the controller haptic feedback was uncanny," Cheng said, "and that using the trackpad really did feel like pressing buttons."P

I had asked Lambe how the Steam controller felt compared to traditional game controllers. He replied: "It's familiar enough to be accessible (I believe they tried less conventional designs before they went with a form factor similar to existing gamepads), but much more precise for (say) anything WASD+mouselook."

RichC2 09-28-13 10:11 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
It sounds awesome to me :shrug:

And for once, it looks like a controller that will be $60* because it's actually worth $60, unlike the 360 and PS3 pads.

* - No, there's been no announcement, just guessing.

Anybody need another friend? I need I think 1 more :(

dugan 09-28-13 02:15 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 11851301)
Well, SteamOS is some form of Linux, so they'd have to specifically include support for [the Xbox 360 controller]. Are they going to do that even though they want people to try out their new controller? I hope so.

Xbox 360 controllers are plug-and-play in Linux. Their support is a standard part of the Linux kernel.

Dan 09-28-13 03:23 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Good to know. I could never get mine working with my Raspberry Pi, which is unrelated mostly, but yeah.

sdcrym 09-29-13 09:59 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by RichC2 (Post 11851451)
It sounds awesome to me :shrug:

And for once, it looks like a controller that will be $60* because it's actually worth $60, unlike the 360 and PS3 pads.

* - No, there's been no announcement, just guessing.

Anybody need another friend? I need I think 1 more :(

I still need some (7) steam friends before I can sign up for the beta. My steam ID is koyaani.

Matthew Chmiel 09-30-13 02:52 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
http://xi3.force.com/piston
  • 3.2 quad-core AMD Trinity processor.
  • Radeon 7000-Series GPU.
  • 8GB RAM.
  • 128GB SSD.
$999. Availale with 256GB for $1239 or 512GB for $1649.

According to their FAQ:


So how will PISTON be upgradeable, and why should consumers care about that?

It has been 5—7 years since the previous “closed” gaming systems were launched by 2 of the Big 3 Gaming manufacturers. When those machines began shipping, they provided a great gaming experience for their day. Today? Not so much. The reason that’s the case is that those machines were never designed to be truly upgradeable or updateable, and as we all know, technology continues to advance with new capabilities being launched every year.

The same problem also exists with gaming computers. Like it or not, the vast majority of computer owners don’t know how to update or upgrade their machines by themselves. That means if they want a better computer gaming experience, they have to pay someone else to do it for them or go off and buy a brand new machine. With the PISTON Console (PC), this will not be the case.

Because PISTON is based upon the Modular Computer architecture that replaces the typical single motherboard found in most computers with three miniaturized and interconnected boards, PISTON Consoles (PCs) can be updated simply by removing and replacing one of these three boards. In the future, Xi3 will provide upgrade PISTON boards and components to provide increased processing power, faster/better graphic rendering capabilities, improved networking speeds, greater connectivity options, and more. As a result, Xi3 believes it will allow PISTON users to continue to enjoy topnotch gaming throughout the life of each PISTON Console (PC).

So what about Valve Corporation? Does Xi3 have a relationship with Valve or not?

When we unveiled the PISTON Console (PC) at CES 2013, we announced at the time that Xi3 had received an investment from Valve. We have not revealed the amount or nature of that investment, nor will we do so now. We did, however, provide additional commentary about Valve and the “Steam Box” in a separate announcement in March of this year.

Is PISTON the Steam Box or not?

Xi3 has never described its PISTON Console (PC) as the Steam box or a Steam Box, especially since it appears that Steam Box is a term created by journalists and not by Valve. To be clear, however, PISTON Console owners will be able to access and play games on/through Steam since it is a Web-based platform open to anyone with an Internet connection and a Steam account, either on a Windows- or a Linux-based system. So in this regard, PISTON could be considered the first commercially available Steam Box.
By the way that reads, it looks like you'll be able to upgrade the board completely (i.e. most likely the CPU & GPU) on the unit as well as possibly other components.

chuckd21 09-30-13 02:53 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
That thing that emerged at this year's CES that we were all talking about a few pages back...

Xi3's Piston modular PC launching November 29th for $1,000
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/30/x...n-november-29/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....8pxhedimg1.jpg

Matthew Chmiel 09-30-13 02:55 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
At least they stole from the best in regards to their controller design ...

... or you can use the Steam Controller. ;)

chuckd21 09-30-13 02:55 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Stole is right. Unless they licensed the mold or something.

Matthew Chmiel 09-30-13 03:00 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Either there's a lawsuit coming or Microsoft allowed them to license the controller. I assume the former.

Based upon what we've seen with the Piston, I would hold off and wait to see what the first Steam Machine prototype looks like. There's some unique ideas in place, but reading reviews from people who used prototype models, there were numerous issues like the amount of noise being produced, excessive heat, etc.

RichC2 09-30-13 03:01 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
What an incredibly dull controller.

chuckd21 09-30-13 03:03 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Nothing will ever be the same in controller land now that we've got dual touchpad gyro-clicky mind activated chocolate love from Gabe's magic brain! ;)

RocShemp 09-30-13 05:41 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 11854187)
Either there's a lawsuit coming or Microsoft allowed them to license the controller. I assume the former.

Based upon what we've seen with the Piston, I would hold off and wait to see what the first Steam Machine prototype looks like. There's some unique ideas in place, but reading reviews from people who used prototype models, there were numerous issues like the amount of noise being produced, excessive heat, etc.

Well they can always defend themselves by pointing out that right thumbstick is more like a DualShock thumbstick and therefor the controller isn't a total ripoff of the 360 controller. :lol:

Decker 09-30-13 06:40 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by chuckd21 (Post 11854181)
Stole is right. Unless they licensed the mold or something.

"Our controller has a little square in the button on the top -- it's not the same"

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1s0hEi8zhmg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dan 10-01-13 11:21 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Maybe not, but kind of NSFW...

mattysemo247 10-01-13 12:20 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Alright, that was pretty funny

fumanstan 10-02-13 02:49 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Early looks at the Piston aren't too great. Kind of expected that we would see weak graphics performance.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/h...piston-gaming/

Matthew Chmiel 10-02-13 04:31 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by fumanstan (Post 11857225)
Early looks at the Piston aren't too great. Kind of expected that we would see weak graphics performance.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/h...piston-gaming/

PayPal me a thousand dollars and I'll build you a PC in a Mini-ITX case that'll blow the Piston out of the water.

Decker 10-02-13 05:00 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 11857367)
PayPal me a thousand dollars and I'll build you a PC in a Mini-ITX case that'll blow the Piston out of the water.

Yeah, the price is kinda insane. It makes the device a non-starter.

Someone with computer knowledge : Could a console-sized "Steam Box" be produced with a proprietary or free OS, capable graphics card and an adequately-sized HDD and still be brought in as a plug-and-play console for $500 or less? Because if they can't match the next-gen consoles in price, whatever else they might bring to the table is sort of irrelevant.

Jay G. 10-02-13 05:30 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Decker (Post 11857408)
Someone with computer knowledge : Could a console-sized "Steam Box" be produced with a proprietary or free OS, capable graphics card and an adequately-sized HDD and still be brought in as a plug-and-play console for $500 or less? Because if they can't match the next-gen consoles in price, whatever else they might bring to the table is sort of irrelevant.

The comments on that endgadget article mention the Alienware X51, which starts at around $699:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/4...FU-Z4AodKHAAIg

This article shows how to build a gaming PC for £500, which is around the cost of the Xbox One in the UK (£429).
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...a-next-gen-pc/


Here's a discussion thread about building a PC with comparable specs and pricing to an Xbox One:
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic...as-ps4-xbox-1/

fumanstan 10-04-13 02:31 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
The prototype Steam Machine that will be for beta users is pretty nice. Just a high end PC though.

http://kotaku.com/valves-first-steam...ful-1441267520


So for our own first prototype Steam Machine ( the one we're shipping to 300 Steam users ), we've chosen to build something special. The prototype machine is a high-end, high-performance box, built out of off-the-shelf PC parts. It is also fully upgradable, allowing any user to swap out the GPU, hard drive, CPU, even the motherboard if you really want to. Apart from the custom enclosure, anyone can go and build exactly the same machine by shopping for components and assembling it themselves. And we expect that at least a few people will do just that. (We'll also share the source CAD files for our enclosure, in case people want to replicate it as well.)

And to be clear, this design is not meant to serve the needs of all of the tens of millions of Steam users. It may, however, be the kind of machine that a significant percentage of Steam users would actually want to purchase - those who want plenty of performance in a high-end living room package. Many others would opt for machines that have been more carefully designed to cost less, or to be tiny, or super quiet, and there will be Steam Machines that fit those descriptions.

Here are the specifications for Valve's 300 prototypes.

The 300 prototype units will ship with the following components:
GPU: some units with NVidia Titan, some GTX780, some GTX760, and some GTX660
CPU: some boxes with Intel : i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3
RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600 (CPU), 3GB DDR5 (GPU)
Storage: 1TB/8GB Hybrid SSHD
Power Supply: Internal 450w 80Plus Gold
Dimensions: approx. 12 x 12.4 x 2.9 in high
Similar to the dev machines I actually use at work, actually.


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