DVD Talk Forum - How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)

- Video Game Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk-15/)

- - How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/596938-how-do-you-think-microsoft-going-solve-media-storage-issue.html)

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdmoney (Post 11033887)

2. Download only isn't the problem with pricing. If your perspective is only console downloadable titles then you might get that impression, but that's a very narrow view of downloadable pricing. The problem with downloadable pricing on consoles is that you are dealing with a closed platform where pricing is dictated by a very rigid platform holder. Once you've chosen a platform your access to downloadable titles is restricted to the platform holder, and MS and Sony (more Microsoft) have shown themselves to be very rigid on pricing models. And I think downloadable titles are still an afterthought this generation, they don't focus pricing and marketing on downloadable titles. The PC, an open platform, doesn't have this pricing problem, have you seen the sales from Steam, D2D, greenmangaming, Amazon, Impulse, Gamersgate, GOG, etc.? Downloadable only does not necessarily mean more expensive. Even on a closed platform like the iphone, where the platform holder doesn't exert such rigid pricing on the games, you see much better pricing for downloadable content.

I was defintaly only thinking of consoles. Digital distribution on PC and (to a lesser extent) Mac is friendly to the CAGs amoung us because there are so many different places to get games. There is only one place to get digital games on Xbox and PS3 (generally speaking). Your only hope for cheap games is sale on point cards + sale on store. You don't see the crazy steam-like sales on Xbox (some titles on PS3 go for super cheap more recently).

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomethingMore (Post 11033076)

tl;dr version: Paramount dropped Blu-ray. Warner dropped HD DVD. Retailers followed Warner. Then Toshiba/MS gave up.

I was following the 'war' closely at the time. I only remember it as a consumer, as I had no insider knowledge or anything like that.

Spoiler:

From what I recall... people (myself included) argued that HD DVD owners were buying more titles per person, but since they were immensely overshadowed by the sheer number of Blu-ray owners, HD DVD didn't have a single week at the top after the launch of the PS3. The only week where there was a chance was the week Transformers was released on HD DVD only. If I recall correctly, Transformers had more copies sold than any other HD DVD or Blu-ray title at the time, but it was still greatly outsold by the massive 2 for 1 sale that pretty much every Blu-ray-only studio "coincidentally" put on that week.

As for who dropped HD DVD first... it was Warner. At launch, Universal was the only studio exclusive to HD DVD. Warner and Paramount were releasing on both formats, but both seemed to favour HD DVD as there were a number of HD DVD exclusives released by both studios. Sony, Disney, Fox, and Lion's Gate were all Blu-ray exclusive from the get-go.

While Warner used identical video encodes for both formats, Paramount was doing two separate encodes for every release, trying to utilize each format to the best of their abilities. There were a ton of debates on which was "superior," and being on the side of HD DVD, my memory tells me the HD DVD encodes by Paramount were better (but really, they were practically identical).

Then, out of nowhere, Paramount announced that they were dropping Blu-ray. Not only that, but the titles they were planning to release as early as the following Tuesday were all being pulled from retailers. Some fans managed to snag copies of Blades of Glory on Blu-ray. Unfortunately, it was pretty clear that the HD DVD group paid Paramount a hefty sum for the exclusivity. Lots of bad press.

HD DVD players became a hot item on Black Friday in 2007 and on Boxing Day in Canada. While I convinced both of my brothers to buy the $99 HD-A3, I even knew a few people who went that route as well. We all figured that, with Microsoft's support, things could only get better for the format.

Toshiba and Microsoft supposedly had a big AWESOME event for the big electronics show in January 2008 (CES, if memory serves). This is when most people expected Warner to announce that they, too, were dropping Blu-ray. The day before that announcement, Warner came out and said they were dropping HD DVD and going Blu-ray exclusive, citing sales and future growth as the reason (no one REALLY wanted a format war). Based on the fact that they had done a number of exclusives for HD DVD, it was quite a shock. Then retailers like Wal-mart said they were doing the same. Toshiba and MS cancelled their big CES event. Then, days later, Toshiba announced that they were dropping HD DVD. Since Toshiba was the only real manufacturer of standalone players (there was an LG model that was dual-format, but wouldn't play some HD DVD menus...), that was the true end. Paramount and Universal started releasing on Blu-ray within months.

To Warner's credit, they DID offer the HD2Blu program where you could send them your HD DVD covers (as proof of purchase) and they'd send you the equivalent Blu-ray for only $5. Paramount and Universal never bothered to throw HD DVD buyers a bone like that.

But back on topic ;) ... the dust has settled... Toshiba has Blu-ray players... and MS will support Blu-ray in the next XBOX. They'd be dumb not to.

Nice recap. It jibes with what I remember. I really miss those aggressive format-war sales. :) And Warner had stuff like Batman Begins and V for Vendetta on HD DVD and I was leaning that way too, even though I'd bought in to both formats with a PS3 and 360 HD DVD add-on. Amazon gave me some kind of credit for having bought my HD DVD add-on, though. :up:

I also remember Amazon having some kind of deal to buy high-def hardware then get some kind of discount on software for a year.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I hope there's a better format than Blu-ray. Sony hasn't done jack with the PS3.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt (Post 11034629)

I hope there's a better format than Blu-ray. Sony hasn't done jack with the PS3.

What do you mean Sony hasn't done jack? PS3 gets firmware updates constantly to keep up with the latest technology and support ANYTHING blu-ray has to offer, 3D, etc.. There hasn't been single game that has come out that has required more than a just one disc. Blu-rays are extremely scratch resistant (actually I've NEVER seen a scratch on one) so even used games are like new. Like others have said, Microsoft would be stupid not to use blu-ray. They already fucked up once with the HD-DVD. If they try to create a whole new format they're just asking for it.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I think he meant in regards to maximizing Blu-ray's capabilities. It's hampered by a 2x drive(requiring installs) and since the 360 dominated for so long, that tends to be the lead platform for non-exclusives so graphically & performance-wise there is no benefit to BD.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I don't understand the big deal about installs? It's a one time thing when you first put the disc in and usually pretty minimal. Besides, when patches come out, don't you NEED some kind of game file on the hard drive?

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

In the PS3 not all games can be installed to hard drive. Read speeds are slower when compared to the DVD drive in the Xbox 360. So some games have suffered performance issues in the PS3. I don't remember any game right now, but I'm sure a google search should show some titles.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul3 (Post 11035303)

Bayonetta was so bad that they had to add an install option in a patch.

I mean, when you hit start to go to your menu, it took a good 3 or 4 minutes for your menu to open.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Now that I think about it, as long as there is the option to install your game to the HDD, I don't care if the games are 15 DVDs or 3 blu-rays.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19K (Post 11034683)

Blu-rays are clearly better in A/V than DVD yet not so much with video games. I don't know how much graphics has to do with Blu-ray vs. DVD but it should look at least a little better and not the same or worse in some cases.

I like the PS3, watch a ton of movies, stream music, but gaming? Where are the next gen graphics? The next gen processing?

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

x-box has sold too many consoles this generation and better game sales per console. i bet too many people are like me who bought a PS3 just for the blu-ray/netflix capability. although my son loves the rub a dub dub demo

most games are designed with the x-box in mind which is why the graphics are usually about the same

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Is anyone really unhappy with graphics anymore? I think we're at the point of diminishing returns. I'd rather see a focus on art direction.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt (Post 11035455)

The PS3 looks considerably better then the PS2. There's your next gen graphics.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet (Post 11036314)

Is anyone really unhappy with graphics anymore? I think we're at the point of diminishing returns. I'd rather see a focus on art direction.

PC tends to blow consoles away (assuming the game was built from the ground up for PC rather than just a straight port from console). So there's still room for improvement.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11036340)

PC tends to blow consoles away (assuming the game was built from the ground up for PC rather than just a straight port from console). So there's still room for improvement.

Yeah, but my point is, does it matter? Do games need to be photorealistic? Is that even a worthy goal?

The most interesting and creative games tend to come at the end of a console's life-cycle... I think gaming would be better served if we got off this treadmill.

Skyrim looks amazing and it's on a 6-year-old console.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11036340)

PC tends to blow consoles away (assuming the game was built from the ground up for PC rather than just a straight port from console). So there's still room for improvement.

PC's have this problem of needing expensive graphics cards and the games install annoying DRM software on your computers. and the input is still mouse and keyboard

Nintendo pioneered new input methods to move games away from the usual walk in a line, kill someone, repeat

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by al_bundy (Post 11036382)

PC's have this problem of needing expensive graphics cards

Which is why I moved away from PC gaming. I bought a new video card just so I could play Doom 3 when it came out. Never again. I'll buy the odd game on Steam, on sale, but that's it. Usually just the Valve and independent stuff.

Quote:

and the games install annoying DRM software on your computers.

DRM can be good (Steam) or bad (everything else).

Quote:

and the input is still mouse and keyboard

For some games (Starcraft? C&C?), M&K is a must. But, you can plug a wired XBOX 360 controller into any PC and it works well on most other games, from what I recall.

Still, I'll continue to buy consoles, and I'll only use my PC for "light" gaming.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet (Post 11036365)

What's the alternative?

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Exactly. It doesn't matter... until they show us the alternative. Then you see that 6 year old console for what it really is.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 11036560)

Exactly. It doesn't matter... until they show us the alternative. Then you see that 6 year old console for what it really is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt (Post 11036545)

What's the alternative?

Easy. Look at a PC game. Sure if you're really into graphics you'll care about the differences, but I think consoles are at a level of graphical fidelity where the use case for more powerful hardware is seriously lacking.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I hear they are thinking about this as a solution....

http://www.instructables.com/image/F...y-Disk-Bag.jpg

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet (Post 11036586)

Eh, I disagree. We could always use better graphics and not just with better scaling resolution but in better processing. I saw some video on youtube some company did about graphics, looked quite impressive. We're just not there yet.

I also don't think that because the 360 has been around so long that something couldn't come along and blow it away. I just have a hard time believing it will be Blu-ray.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt (Post 11036730)

Perhaps. We'll find out in a few years.

I think it's a matter of we're going from the equivalent of VHS to DVD or DVD to HD to, say, 720p to 1080p. Sure it's better, but most people don't care (or they can't tell the difference.)

I think that art direction is going to play a much greater role in the future of videogames than raw processing power.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by al_bundy (Post 11036382)

The xbox controller works great in Windows. And the mouse and keyboard is still considerably better then a gamepad for FPS games, in my opinion.

Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet (Post 11036365)

Yeah, but my point is, does it matter? Do games need to be photorealistic? Is that even a worthy goal?

That's not the point. To break it down, in an ideal world, you want the frames per second to match the hertz of your television and the resolution of the game to match the resolution of your television. If I have a 60 Hz HDTV, the ideal is for the game to run at 60 FPS. If I have a 1920 x 1080 television, I want the game to have that same resolution.

To use an example, I'll use Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3.

On both the 360 and PS3, Battlefield 3 runs in a native resolution of 1280 x 720 at 30 fps. If you have a television that maxes out at 720p, you're in business as the resolution is top notch. However, anything higher? The PS3 doesn't upscale to 1080p whereas the XBOX 360 does. However, if you're playing the game on a PC? The sky's the limit for Battlefield 3 based upon your system.

Call of Duty: Black Ops on the PS3 had a native resolution to 950 x 544 at 40 fps. In a rarity, the PS3 edition of the game was able to upscale it to 1080p. If you had a 360, you got a better version of the game as it was running at 1040 x 608 with 60 fps. Again, like most games, the XBOX 360 upscales it to 1080p if your display can handle it. However, if you're playing the game on a PC? The sky's the limit.

I don't know the exact resolution of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, however the game runs at 60 fps on both the PS3 and XBOX 360. However, if you're playing the game on a PC? The sky's the limit.

The games will always be limited by the hardware. On my iMac, I'm able to run Team Fortress 2 at 2560 x 1440 at a consistent 120 fps with very little drops. Did I mention the game also has all the video settings maxed out? However, if I limit the frames per second to 60, I would never know the difference as my iMac is only 60 Hz.

If the next-gen consoles can match what a computer can do now, we will be in quite a treat for the next games we'll be able to see.