Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

For one, I think Chess is particularly perturbed because the KZ vs. HW issue is manipulating the argument with irrelevant statistics. The issue isn't total sales #'s because we've already established there are fewer PS3 consoles and therefore a smaller potential market. So debating straight sales numbers seems pretty silly. You've got to go much deeper to make any kind of accurate or poignant statement about the value of a game to its particular console. Units sold post-release, % of owners that purchased said game, etc. It's a pretty consistent tactic that 360 owners tend to use to support the superiority of their platform. I'm of the mind that most 360 owners believe so strongly in the strength of the platform because it was here first, more successful right from the get go and Sony apparently used a gimmick to sell the majority of its consoles (BD). If we started, day one, right now, all things as they are -- I believe that the PS3 would be considered the superior gaming system. This includes the reliability of the technology, BD support, relatively equal slates of games of quality exclusives, and multi-platform support for most everything else. In the end, I think we should all just be happy that the market can support three consoles. Sony being third, but still relatively successful compared to the "losers" of the past is a great thing for gamers.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

well, looks like the OP is a multiconsole owner based on his "what are you playing" thread post. And he chose HW and KZ2 because of the similar release date and expected profile of the games I'm guessing. I bought neither.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Unless Sony lowers the price of the PS3 drastically and really starts pumping out tons of games they will remain in last. Face it - neither Microsoft or Sony will catch up to the Wii and the way things are going the PS3 won't top the 360. It's just not possible. Too many times I have heard "Just wait until xxxxxxxxxxxx game comes out...the system will fly off the shelves", well, they won't. A 4 year hyped game like Killzone 2 can't even sell 1 million copies in 3 months! It is last.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Definitely. I don't think being third would put it in the category of Turbografx or Sega Saturn. Last generation supported three consoles fairly well.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Here's the big picture question : So F'in what? If the PS3 is 3rd, it's still doing well. It's not going to fold like the Dreamcast. It's hurt by its high cost, but I can afford it and I get enjoyment from the system. Game companies are making good games for the system both as exclusives and multiplatform. I really don't see an issue here besides the most basic sales ranking.
Personally, I don't drive around in a Ford F-150 wearing a Timex, swilling Budwiser and listening to Lil'Wayne because they're all huge sellers. I'm very comfortable in my current car and don't really care how it sells nationally.

Nobody really thinks the Wii is such a huge seller because it's by far the best system, or even because it has amazing games (though it has a few very good exclusives). It sells like it does because #1 It was the cheapest for a long time and got a good foothold in the market and #2 It caters to families with school-aged kids and to adults who don't usually play video games, two huge and under-represented markets. If you're a stockholder, I guess this stuff is important to you, but if you think I will get rid of my PS3 just because it's a disappointment in the US, well that's just foolish.

And, for the record, as of right now, we don't know when God Of War III comes out, but it might very well be in the 4th quarter of 2009.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

I was also thinking lately about the lack of dominance in the Japanese market. While the games don't make a dent here, I think the moving of big franchises like Dragon Quest to the DS and now Monster Hunter to the Wii (the franchise tops the all-time sales charts in Japan for the PSP), along with the Final Fantasy move, really hurt.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Like talking about sales numbers, some people just enjoy the discussion. Of course Sony being 3rd in sales doesn't effect people's enjoyment of the games (at least I hope not). Of course there are going to be lots of people who just don't care about the topic but the same goes for any topic.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Speaking for my household only, the XBox's get a hell of a lot more use than the PS3's. A lot of it has to do with XBL.

However, with some great exclusives coming out, that might change (here, anyway).

= J

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

DQ9 will sell boat loads on the DS. However, Monster Hunter doesn't really have a strong pedigree on home consoles. It wasn't really a big success initially on the PS2. It only became huge after it was ported the PSP. Also, Monster Hunter G (the port of Monster Hunter 2g to the Wii) has done OK but nothing special.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

The problem with this topic is some (not all) will take it as a personal attack against themselves. The OP has some valid points...

I personally have (2) PS3's and only one 360... but my 360 gets more use than the PS3's combined. The reasons are simple -- I HATE the PS3 controller, I love Xbox Live and when it comes to multi-platform games, I like getting achievements as opposed to trophies.

I totally dig the BR functionality of the PS3 though and the fact that it updates firmware with no issues.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

If Sony only made game systems, they would be out of business this gen. But they make a lot more money in other parts of entertainment, I'm sure they'll survive the market. However, I hope they do better next gen with ps4. If they end up in third place again, I fear they may go the way of Sega. After Sega Saturn, they tried to bounce back with the Dreamcast. And that was a flop. Only two generations of console failures, and they stepped out of the hardware production.

Oh and no one is a bigger Sony fanboy than Elpresador:

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that guy is scary :lol:

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

This.

It's been a while since numbers have been crunched but logistically speaking, with a 8-10 million deficit, Sony would have to outsell the 360 by hundreds of thousands every month for more than a year to even catch up much less overtake them. Month after month, we see that just isn't going to happen(even owning Japan). A $100 price drop would definitely be a huge shot in the arm, but you know damn well that MS is going to respond to that with their own drop or new sku. Also the consoles appeal to the same consumers, how many people are going to own both, realistically?

So then it becomes about how long the PS3 outlasts the 360. Sony could easily outsell the 360 if MS moves on to the next console, but with them moving on (and potentially Nintendo) then it becomes a perception issue. With two consoles moving on, wouldn't that generation then be theoretically over, even if the PS3 chugs along alone? It would be a hollow victory if PS3 overtakes the 360 when the console is no longer being supported.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

The thing is that the next 360 will be just a 360 mark 2. Fully BC, maybe some minor tweaks, higher clock speed etc. The transition of the 360 to the 360 mark 2 will be more inline with the GC -> Wii transition. Game developers just aren't interested in having to create assets for systems that are massively more powerful than the 360/PS3. Of course, the PS3 will eventually have the PS3 slim. Anyway, they will be going head to head for years to come.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

thank you
this is not the olympics ....Sony is not seeking gold or silver medals
Sony made a long term investment into BD and it will pay off big time in the long run
they already have the #1 selling BD player

I doubt it and I hope not ... I have enough PS3 exclusives taking up enough of my time

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

That's why. I don't understand why people who hate these discussions bother clicking on the thread. Generally, people just like to talk about them and play armchair analyst. It's fun to predict where companies might try and go where their current positions and how they react. I don't see why someone interested in video games wouldn't be at least a little bit interested in what the console manufacturers are doing :shrug:

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Even if the PS3 drops it's price, is it too late? I mean alot of people already pulled the trigger on this generation's system. Many people/families only buy one system and the more time that passes means more families that pulled the trigger already, so a price drop may be too little, too late, for many.

I think they should've stopped production on the PS2 (and software for it). Look how many PS2's sold. Would it be a fair assumption to think that alot of those people may have bought the low-end PS3 instead of the PS2 if the PS2 wasn't available? Sure the PS2 generates some dollars, but is it at the expense of the PS3 numbers? Why didn't they ever release a PS3 without a BR player and almost full backward compatability? To me, that would've kept them in the race if they would've came out of the gate that way. Instead, we have to play the SKU game of 20/40/60/80/120gb models, and which one does this or that?

I think if Sony launched with the (awesome) 60gb and a Blu-ray-free 20gb with the same backwards-compatability as the 60gb, this race is alot closer.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

I don't really see how that would work, given games would then need to all ship on DVD in order to work on both console versions, and hurts Sony's attempt to push Blu-ray. It would probably cause just as much confusion as the current number of SKU's.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Had Sony forgone Blu-ray, the price would have been dead even with the 360 and Nintendo aside, would have at least wiped the floor clean with the 360.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Whatever MS has up their sleeve for their next console, it better start out of the gate with a fantastic warranty.

I personally think the entire red ring issue is going to bite their ass big time when they release a new console. Other than hardcore gamers, what average consumer wants to take a chance on a possible future $500 (or whatever it costs by then) brick?

It should have a bumper to bumper 3 year warranty on it immediately to quell any concern.

I still wonder why some people really think BD is going to pay such "dividends". It's gonna be popular but boxes like the Roku are the future, no question. BD is just a bump in the road towards that. And standard dvd isn't going anywhere. It'll be with us longer than VHS. BD is the rebound chick between the marriage of dvd and the future marriage of streaming.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

last time I checked Sony sells [HD] tvs
Microsoft and Nintendo don't

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Since the next system will be just a mild evolution over the 360 then I'm sure there will be very few issues compared to the 360. They've had almost 4 years to work out the kinks so I have pretty high expectations. Again, consider the reliability of the Wii (a GC with a higher clock speed) compared to the 360.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Do you really think so? Looking at both, 360 exclusives have been as strong or stronger (in my opinion) than the PS3's exclusives. And you can't count out Live. It simply blows away the PSN in every facet. When I play on the PSN or even navigate thru it, it's like the dark ages compared to playing and navigating thru Live. I tend to think they would be neck and neck with the Wii still, of course, blowing the doors off of both of them.

The PS2 was a cultural phenomenon...much like the Wii, the NES, and the Atari 2600. Everyone owned one (except me ;)). History shows that doesn't seem to happen back to back with the same company for some odd reason.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Depends whether there would still have been a year gap between the consoles. Maybe not, without BR, but who can say for sure. Also, I'm sure BR has sold consoles to the high tech gadget loving crowd with it's perceived improvements in games and ability to watch BR movies. These are the same people that may have decided on an original Xbox over a PS2 because it was a more powerful piece of hardware. Additionally, the 360 still would have the superior online experience and strong Japanese support, which the Xbox didn't have. It definitely wouldn't have been a case of being used as a floor cleaning implement.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

Each system has its merits.

Like Decker I own all three systems and enjoy playing all of them.

We are very early in this cycle, but I don't believe Sony will be able to catch up unless they are apple to drop the PS3 to $199 plus the economy being what it is, it's certainly not helping them any at their current price point.

Sony definitely needs to invigorate the PS brand and I think price is holding them back significantly. Do I see value in their system? Of course, it's a great all around machine and it's rock solid compared to the 360. I'm not worried about it breaking anytime soon. The 360; not so much.

Hopefully this E3 we'll get that price cut although it'll likely be $100 if it does materialize.

Re: Has Sony Officially Lost this Generation?
 

I have to say that while Wii has the sales, the PS3 has the best hardware (by far), and the 360 has the best software (by far), none of the consoles this generation lived up to their potential. The Wii, for my tastes, is a bit too hobbled in its technology, the 360 is unreliable, and the PS3 (for a while, at least), lacked a good software library.

I don't understand why people get so riled up over sales figures. The best-selling console is not necessarily the best console overall.

I think the PS3 has a good chance of being a money-making and successful machine for Sony. But that won't be this year.