PixyJunket

http://www.doublefine.com/news.php/s..._not_a_kitten/

Michael Corvin

Misleading thread title.

We get it, you don't like talking about such matters that relate to cost, sales, etc. There are a lot of us that kill time at work discussing such things. Don't venture into the NPD threads if you don't want to participate.

Also, Schafer is wrong. I want to see a sequel to Blast Corps. but due to the low sales, it's likely not going to happen. Gamers who want to dive back into a gaming world they love have a vested interest in how well a title sells.

Even you aren't immune, just look at your Retro Game Challenge thread. You pitched a fit when we all didn't go out and buy it day 1 and bow down to the developers so we get the sequel in the US. You think you stand taller than everyone else, but in the end you aren't any different than you think. Sales matter to more than just the "people that have vested financial interest in a game."

fumanstan

Yeah, I don't see how Schafer can say that when the adventure genre he had such a huge part in his all but disappeared.

PixyJunket

Boo hoo.

There's a difference between being happy that a game is selling well enough and somebody obsessively being an armchair analyst sitting on an internet site talking about "Well, this game sold 100 on [this niche site that only tracks sales of its members that may be 1 of 100,000 Xbox owners] compared to this game that sold 1000. Failure confirmed, good." when they ZERO idea how much the game cost or how much it needs to sell to be considered successful.

..and I've never been in one NPD thread here.

orangecrush

Fair enough, but it is fun to talk about how games do in the market just as it is fun to look at weekend totals for movies. As long as you don't get mired in the "PS3 sales suck, so I am happy" mentality, I see the discussion as harmless. Also, I susspect Mr. Schafer would be adress NeoGAF members more than VideogameTalk members.

PixyJunket

The problem is most people don't "get" what makes something successful or not. Most internet forum posters have this mentality that a game has to sell as much as Halo 3 or a movie has to make as much as The Spider-Men to be successful.. and that's the most irritating part. Dur, Zack and Miri made $30 million, BOMB Kevin Smith is a hack. Gee, the movie cost $20 to make. What a bomb. Ugh. I hate the internet.

True.

I was being silly, I guess with the libs in office we can't make fun of people any more.

orangecrush

You can still make fun of people as long as they do not participate in the Special Olympics or are not black. Also, any monkey related jokes are iffy, so you may want to steer clear.

ElementZ

So we can't make fun of black tards?

Tarantino

= J

Ocelot

i don't get it... who cares?!

if a movie/game fetched a lot of money, then either it has good marketing or people ACTUALLY like it.

if a movie/game is good, but didn't make a lot money, then it's good to those like it, who cares what other people say?

if a movie/game is good, but not many know about it. Blame marketing or the lack of it. Life is too short for most, if i don't hear about it, then chances are not many other people hear about it. That's why there are always few "gems" slip through our regular schedules.

I don't see what's wrong with talking about numbers or ideas at all. As long as everything is civilized. The mentality of "this console sucks" has to go (it took me about a year to realize how pointless that is).

maxfisher

Most of todays games cost a lot of money to make. If a team puts out a great game and it doesn't sell for shit, they're going to have a harder time getting money for their next effort. I think Tim's missing the mark in regards to why a lot of people care about sales. It's not because we want imitation. At least for me, it's because I want 1) continuation of the story/world in the games I love and 2) the people who put out those games to have the financial backing to make more great games, whatever they might be.

PixyJunket

There's an Xbox Live joke in here somewhere, I'm just not brave enough to make it.

Liver&Onions

changed the thread title - because that was a little dramatic and untrue.

PopcornTreeCt

I don't buy the imitators argument. Most of Grand Theft Auto's imitators are actually better than GTA.

IMO, that's a poor argument. Because everything is an imitation of something else.

FusionX

I've never seen anyone except Decker make a fuss over sales numbers, even then just so he can feel better about a price hike on XBLA games that he disapproves of. No one else seems to be that concerned.

fumanstan

It doesn't help that game development costs typically aren't totaled up like movie budgets.

Still, I don't see how Schafer is right here.

orangecrush

He does have a point to an extent. Does anyone here care if Coke had a record sales year?

Michael Corvin

I don't have a vested interest in Coke and what new flavor they are putting out in the fall.

orangecrush

Which soft drink provider's employes do you care about, you heartless bastard.

The Bus

Tuan Jim

I have trouble agreeing with that. Saints Row 2 is a heckuvalot more *fun* than GTAIV - but I'd have trouble saying that it's a *better* game on the whole. When you take into account music, production values, graphics, tighter controls, etc. Haven't played multiplayer on either - so no idea there.

Now I've put more play time into SR2 and I'll say I enjoy it more, but it's really the only GTA-style game I've played that can come close to topping the original.

The original Mercenaries (again, one that got more play) on Xbox was pretty close to beating GTA III IMO - tighter in some things, but looser in others -- and I never finished Vice City (and strongly disliked San Andreas).

fumanstan

So since my livelihood actually is dependent on the success of games then I'm entitled to complain, right?

boredsilly

Ultimately I agree with Schaffer when I see those people take sales discussion too far, and seem to use it to validate themselves in some way.

Personally, I think it's just interesting to see how well something did in the same vein as watching movie box office takes. Fast and Furious made a zillion dollars its opening weekend? CRAZY! The Wii sold a zillion units in April? CRAZY! I don't take it much further than that because it doesn't effect me too tough. I will say though, that it's natural to look at sales and be upset when your favorite game doesn't do well. In that regard sales do matter. I remember pulling for BG&E to no avail (at the time).

spainlinx0

Beyond Good and Evil 2. How much heartache did the fans go through hoping for a sequel that may not come due to poor game sales? Sales can be important to people that aren't developers, and a lot of his arguments don't make sense.

We want great games, but we also like to revisit characters we have already played in a more expansive and improved way. Not all sequels can be this, but many can. Shit look at people excited about Assassin's Creed 2, you included Pixy. If the first game bombed, you probably wouldn't be getting that sequel.

Decker

OK, since I've been dragged into this conversation, I'll comment. Personally, I find it interesting that Worms sold thirty times what Death Tank sold. There may be some other issues involved, specifically brand name recognition. Still, I think it's safe to say a large portion of that sales discrepancy is due to the price point of Death Tank. The movement of the price points of downloadable games concerns me. I can afford less games at 1200 or 1600 points than I can at 800. I don't think every game should cap out at 800; a full game like Puzzle Quest can justify the higher price. I just don't like when more and more games get priced too high.

If I refer to the sales on 360voice.com, it's to objectively see if the price point is discouraging people from buying a game or not. I've seen very good, fairly priced games do miserably on that site (Exit 2 sold 55 copies, including mine). Still, it'll give you a window into price point and it's affect on sales. If you find that Puzzle Quest sold 3625 on it's first day at 1200 points and that Puzzle Quest Galactrix sold 558, that should tell you something.

I don't root for game failure -- I root for fair pricing. Failing that, I'd like to see at least uniformity in pricing downloadable content. There seems no rhyme or reason to it. If someone can explain to me why Kingdom for the Kefflings costs 800 points but Flock! is 1200 points, I'd like to hear it.