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Why the hatred for "minigame" games

Old 11-08-07, 11:54 PM
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Why the hatred for "minigame" games

It seems like there is a lot of hatred for minigame collections out there. I enjoy minigames because it's usually a lot of creative and fun uses of a controller or interface that wouldn't necessarily work within the constraints of your average story based game. Sometimes they are experimental but at the very least unique.

So why the hate? Is it the importance of the story in a game?
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Old 11-08-07, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by msdmoney
It seems like there is a lot of hatred for minigame collections out there. I enjoy minigames because it's usually a lot of creative and fun uses of a controller or interface that wouldn't necessarily work within the constraints of your average story based game. Sometimes they are experimental but at the very least unique.

So why the hate? Is it the importance of the story in a game?
I think a good deal of it has been geared toward the Wii, who for this entire first year has been nothing but mini-game games. Once in a while an inspired set of mini-games will come out and revitalize the genre, but for now it has run its course.
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Old 11-09-07, 12:10 AM
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Yup, while some were fun and inventive at first, the large quantity of them has kind of worn thin for now, especially if you're hoping that companies work on developing on games with a bit more substance.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:10 AM
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It's just the mainstream (Xbox) gamer spitting out their usual venom on the internet, the "hatred" hasn't translated into real world sales. Don't make the mistake of thinking everything you read on forums or "blogs" is what's going on outside of the computer monitor, it doesn't happen often. It appears that that type of gamer is actually, truly offended that a system that isn't pushing graphical prowess and is doing something different has been so wildly successful and they don't know how to react maturely about it. As far as the quantity of them "wearing thin," you rarely hear that for army FPS games, sports or racing games.. at least, nowhere near the backlash that this has garnered.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:15 AM
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I love minigame collections done well. I have all the Warioware games which are insanely addictive, but I was very disappointed with Cooking Mama. The problem in some minigames is the lack of variety, and the feeling that they sloppily put it together to cash in. I think also sometimes they don't have the perceived replay value of other games, and they are usually more fun with people, so people who focus on single player may not get the same enjoyment.

I will say for the Wii Warioware I beat the game and haven't touched it since. I never played it with other people, so I do regret paying full price, even though I had fun for the 2 days it took me to beat it. I think a good multiplayer experience with minigames (which to me is NOT passing the controller around and taking turns) is crucial to the format.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:39 AM
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Minigames shouldn't be the main staple of gaming. That's the problem, there are so many minigames collection out there, and most of them aren't good. I remember when Bishi Bashi was awesome and hilarious for the PS1 (Import) and then Nintendo copied it (literally, some of the minigames are exactly the same) but at least they copied from the best. Then the deluge of horribly designed minigames come and then got a boost from the Wii control gimmick.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:50 AM
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Because they should be extras on a title (a la New Super Mario Bros) not the main feature. My limit on any mini-game only title is $20.
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Old 11-09-07, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by The Bus
My limit on any mini-game only title is $20.
I think that sports roster updates should only cost $20 a year, but they don't, they cost $60 a year, $70 if you want the tin case. But to the people that bought a PS2 or an Xbox 360 just to play Madden every year probably don't mind.. just like the people that bought a Wii to play Wii Sports probably don't mind the other mini-game collections on the system.

Again, the "hatred" is just people not grasping the new market Nintendo has created. I'm not part of it either, but at least I know that it's different than what market I do belong to. I own about ten Wii games and a whopping ONE of them is a mini-game collection, Mario Party 8. Over saturation indeed.
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Old 11-09-07, 10:01 AM
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I have a few problems with minigames:
Some minigame games are a bit too mini. Warioware is a perfect example. I didn't like it at all. The kids loved it though.

In general minigame collections make it cumbersome to navigate to get to a specific minigame.

Wii Sports doesn't suffer from those two issues and is one of the reasons why, IMO, it works.
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Old 11-09-07, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by PixyJunket
It's just the mainstream (Xbox) gamer spitting out their usual venom on the internet, the "hatred" hasn't translated into real world sales. Don't make the mistake of thinking everything you read on forums or "blogs" is what's going on outside of the computer monitor, it doesn't happen often. It appears that that type of gamer is actually, truly offended that a system that isn't pushing graphical prowess and is doing something different has been so wildly successful and they don't know how to react maturely about it. As far as the quantity of them "wearing thin," you rarely hear that for army FPS games, sports or racing games.. at least, nowhere near the backlash that this has garnered.
I disagree, i've read just as much "backlash" against the number of WWII first person shooters from your mainstream gamer crowd; at least within the last couple of years.

Plus, there's obviously a reason why the amount of mini games has been noticeable, since it has pretty much come hand in hand with the arrival of the Wii, where as the other genre's staple in gaming have been around for much longer. Even still, i'd say there's never been a case where there's been too many of a single sport in game form at one time.

Last edited by fumanstan; 11-09-07 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 11-09-07, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RichC2
I think a good deal of it has been geared toward the Wii, who for this entire first year has been nothing but mini-game games.
False.
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Old 11-09-07, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RichC2
I think a good deal of it has been geared toward the Wii, who for this entire first year has been nothing but mini-game games.
What a rash generalization. Zelda: Twilight Princess, MLB Power Pros, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, and more all say hello.

Minigame collections-- like them or not-- are geared towards a more casual audience who doesn't like playing for hours on end like some of the rest of us do. They allow you to have short gameplay sessions without a bunch of setup. Minigames are usually geared towards players of all skill levels, too. If you significant other or your younger child (or even a parent or grandparent) isn't a gaming wiz, most can still pick up how to control minigames and play with some confidence.

Granted, many of the minigame collections have been flawed. Some, like EA Playground, are too easy for most and feel too loose. Wario Ware: Smooth Moves is best played with more than one player-- the single-player experience literally ends within 2-3 hours. Carnival Games was an interesting concept that got weighed down by poor Wiimote controls.

Despite this, let's not kill this genre because it's the "in" thing right now. I've always enjoyed these games, and I think they're a good vehicle to get other, lesser skilled (or interested) players involved.
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Old 11-09-07, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
False.
Exactly. It's such a bullshit stance to take. Just like the Xbox 360 is only home to FPS games(which by last count on CAG was only 17% of the library, less than the PS3).

For every mini-game collection someone points to on the Wii, I could easily name 2-3 non-mini game titles. It's such a gross generalization it's ridiculous.
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Old 11-09-07, 03:28 PM
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Personally they piss me off because they take a hell of alot less work to make, most are uninspired dribble and sell so much better then the definition of video game to me, something more artistic, creative, immersing. Case in point I would take a true Rayman platformer over that crap that was Raving Rabbits and apparently Ancel agrees as he left that project after he was forced to change it.

I don't have a family and live alone so yes it abit one sided as I don't experience multiplayer much, I realize that so I apologize to those that truly only have time for ten minute gaming or just enjoy sharing a game with your kids or spouse but I just cant relate that. I can see different views but its just so frustrating to some when a game like Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, Zack and Wiki, maybe even Metriod 3 ,etc cant even sell enough copies worldwide to justify continuing to make them while these games do so much better it's hard not consider them the current fad enemy even if they really arent taking sales away its more I wish casual had better taste issue. Hell even Super Mario Galaxy which only sold half of its conservation first shipment in japan don't move like these games do.

Maybe its unfounded and silly but you have to wonder why should companies continue to make games that require large teams and years like Mario when they don't sell anything near quick mini games or party games which can be cranked out in mass? Its likely seems irrational but its completely possible future that more focus away from standard deeper video gaming is happening in a general sense which makes some of us overact. Time to cue in next post that will say mini games sell systems therefor making core games have a wider audience, cough.

Last edited by madara; 11-09-07 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 11-09-07, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by madara
So I see your point but when a game like Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, Zack and Wiki, maybe even Metriod 3 ,etc cant even sell enough copies worldwide to justify continuing to make them while these games do so much better it's hard not consider them the current fad enemy even if they really arent taking sales away its more I wish casual had better taste issue. Hell even Super Mario Galaxy which only sold half of its conservation first shipment in japan don't move like these games do.
Crappy Disney, Nickelodeon, Star Wars, Spider-Men and X-Man games still sell far more than those delicious gems you listed AND the casual games (probably combined), but there doesn't seem to be the same backlash to those. In fact, many people on this forum actually help further fund these games.. and often. There's no dearth of varied software out there.. to consider any style of game "the enemy" when plenty of games of all kinds are still coming out in droves is flat out ridiculous and pompous.
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Old 11-09-07, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by madara
I can see different views but its just so frustrating to some when a game like Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, Zack and Wiki, maybe even Metriod 3 ,etc cant even sell enough copies worldwide to justify continuing to make them while these games do so much better it's hard not consider them the current fad enemy even if they really arent taking sales away its more I wish casual had better taste issue. Hell even Super Mario Galaxy which only sold half of its conservation first shipment in japan don't move like these games do.
1. Both Okami and BG&E were made long before this mini-game onslaught and therefore aren't great examples for your case. Zack & Wiki has an unfortunate title and very kiddie graphic style which alienates the majority of gamers. That's on Capcom. It's not because of Carnival Games, Playground or any number of mini-game collections. Seems Metroid is your only valid example and even at that it is coming off a sequel that tanked that many gamers hated. It also has the hurdle of convincing gamers that FPS works on the Wii. So those two factors are a challenge separate from the mini-game argument.

It isn't a black and white argument. It seems the hardcore crowd wants to blame something for the lack of hardcore games and mini-games are the scapegoat. I don't buy it. I just think that there aren't enough hardcore gamers that have the Wii at this point. I'd say the vast majority of owners are the casual crowd, which explains why the casual games are doing so well.

2. Japan proves every month on every system that they no longer care about anything but portables. SMG doing average there is no big surprise.

Last edited by Michael Corvin; 11-09-07 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 11-09-07, 04:28 PM
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Because I paid $60 and I got 15 $4 games and not one $60 game. Minigames are alright but most of the time I end up only liking 1 or 2 of them.
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Old 11-09-07, 04:32 PM
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Yikes! I guess I am ridiculous and pompous then. Now we are quoting EGM on how colorful games or ones without guns&blood are for kids now as well.
You know it goes past just differences here, the role of homeless guy trying to fit in with folks at the Country Club has finally gotten abit too tiring and esteem draining lately in all sections and I dont have this problem on other sites. On that note I gracious bow out.
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Old 11-09-07, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
Because I paid $60 and I got 15 $4 games and not one $60 game. Minigames are alright but most of the time I end up only liking 1 or 2 of them.
Depending on how many minigames are included, it's natural to have some that you hate and some that you love. Even in Carnival Games, I found a couple that I wound up liking, despite the wildly inconsistent controls.

If you look at Wii Sports, which is little more than a minigame compilation itself, each of the games is playable. I don't like Boxing as much as Bowling, but I can play them all and have a decent time.

Perhaps the key is not to cram as many minigames onto an optical disc as possible, but to instead focus on adding only a few games that are extremely playable and fun.
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Old 11-09-07, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Skerritt
Perhaps the key is not to cram as many minigames onto an optical disc as possible, but to instead focus on adding only a few games that are extremely playable and fun.
That's a great idea... for the developer. As consumers we are rarely given that choice. Everything is about perceived value here and cramming more games (regardless of quality) must increase the value for the consumer and we should be happy about it, right? But over and over and over again, it all just becomes white noise.

Regarding the Wii, it's a simple matter of "oh shit, look what we've been ignoring... we've gotta get something, ANYTHING out there quick!"
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Old 11-09-07, 04:52 PM
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People act as if shovelware was invented by Nintendo for the Wii. It has been around since consoles were invented. And not all minigame collections are shovelware.
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Old 11-09-07, 04:58 PM
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I don't mind the minigames, if I know what I'm getting beforehand.

I knew Mario Party 8 would be minigames. I knew Wii Sports would be minigames. I knew Mario/Sonic at the Olympics would be minigames. It's why I bought them.

I also have other, non-minigame games: Resident Evil, Lego Star Wars, Madden '08.

Point is: I don't know why anyone would "hate" them so long as they're not the exclusive option on a system. And they're not.
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Old 11-09-07, 06:10 PM
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Minigames also seem to be much better at attracting the non-gamer crowd to at least try it out, since the controls are simplified and lack of familiarity with the controller is not an obstacle. For example, my wife loves Mario Party (mainly because she loves board games) and each of those mini games take just a couple of screens to explain. Part of Wii Sports success (besides being the pack-in) is due to the pick-up-and-play nature of it.

Shovelware is shovelware, though, be it minigames, licensed games, or any game just shoveled out there to get people to bite. But just because some of us don't like minigames and prefer 100+ hour RPGs doesn't mean that minigames are bad.

And I thought Raving Rabbids was fun (except for that stupid carrotjuice game... ugh my hands still hurt).
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Old 11-09-07, 06:46 PM
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Speaking of minigames, anyone heard any buzz on the upcoming Viva Pinata game?
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Old 11-09-07, 07:06 PM
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I'm not a fan of minigames for the sole reason that they only have replay value if they have a good multiplayer mode. I picked up Warioware for Wii, finished it in a little over a day and found out the multiplayer mode entails passing one controller around. Lame. That game should not cost $50, nor should any other minigame collection for that matter.
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