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Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD - News and Updates

Old 10-29-07, 12:36 AM
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Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD - News and Updates

I was posting info about this title alongside Super Puzzle Fighter HD because it was assumed that both would be released simultaneously. That didn't happen and SSF2 Turbo is still being developed and scheduled for release early 2008

Here are some screenshots and a not so good video of the game in action.







Youtube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObOBptwjEfo

Info thus far(thanks to Shoryuken.com)

Here's what we know so far based on what was said by Sirlin, Rey Jimenez, and other Capcom/Backbone employees.

ST:HD is considered to be the next entry of the SF2 series, making it the 7th installment of the series (Hyper SF2 was the 6th). There will be actually be 2 games in ST:HD: the original, untouched Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (for all you purists) and the updated Super Turbo with new graphics by Udon artists and a remixed (or rebalanced) gameplay mode.

Release Date

According to this 1up.com article, Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix will "ship when it's ready," says Nique Fajors, vice president of marketing, but Capcom estimates a Q1 2008 release on both the Xbox Live Arcade and PlayStation Network.

Remixed Mode

In this mode, we can assume that inconsistent properties such as random dizzies will be fixed in the game. Characters who did not have reversal supers can now perform them (we saw Ken do a reversal super in the ST:HD footage that Rey Jimenez revealed). Most interesting is what was revealed in a 1up.com preview article.

We saw Ryu perform his fake fireball from Alpha 2/3 in the ST:HD footage, and I'm curious to see what the other characters gained. Svensson has hinted that T.Hawk and Fei Long will receive big changes. It doesn't seem like the easier moves will be like EO mode from CvS2, but more likely changing Tiger Knee to F, D, DF + K.

Sirlin objected to the "Remixed Mode" name, but in light of these new ST:HD tweaks, the name seems more and more fitting. If you want, you can still suggest alternatives in this thread (mine would be "Original/New").

Brian Dunn revealed something odd about ST:HD in the Capcom Digital Blog, "This game uses the Dreamcast version as a base. Basically it uses the same base code (with improvements and new features and additions), with all of the "art" files replaced with new ones for the updated look." According to the Shoryuken Wiki:

Brian mentioned that we are basing the game off of the Dreamcast version. That was done because the DC (Japanese version) code is easier to work with, and there was already existing network code within the game to start with because the Japanese version had an online matchmaking service. Now, before you guys start throwing tables in disgust because we are using the DC version and not the arcade version, realize that the DC version was an arcade perfect version. Or at least it was really close. Some “dip switches” were changed for the DC version that gave it some of its interesting quirks. For SFHD, we are simply flipping those “switches” back to their original settings so that the game plays like the arcade version. Also, we are making fine adjustments as needed to make sure it plays exactly like the arcade. So, while it is true we are basing the code off of the DC version, the end result will play arcade perfect.

Graphics

Update: According to this Game Informer article: Let's hope this addresses the anatomy issues that some have pointed out in previously released art samples.

Also, Rey Jimenez revealed in the Capcom blog, "The HUD and fonts are very early. We haven't done anything to jazz it up yet. So I know it looks boring now, but it's something we'll be working on."

Music/Sound

In a reversal to what was announced previously, remixed tunes will be available in the game. According to the 1up article, Christian Svensson, senior director of research and strategic planning at Capcom, hints that the community will come into play somehow with the creation (or selection) of the remixed music tracks. Rey Jimenez said in the Capcom Digital Blog, "You'll also notice the new Ken level music. Again, this is an optional feature, but I am working with a bunch of talented individuals to get new music in the game. I'll let you know who they are later as we get closer to release."

No word yet if Guile will have a manly "Sonic Boom" voice this time, but Ken and Ryu were using their CPSII voices in the ST:HD footage.

Widescreen Mode

In another reversal to what was said previously, ST:HD will have a widescreen option. According to Rey Jimenez, "As you may remember, we weren't planning on including any sort of widescreen support that would extend the edges of the playing field to the edge of the screen. But the community voiced that they wanted it really bad, so we decided to put it in. The mode is optional, so you can play in standard 4:3 if you want to. It’s not a stretched mode, but something similar to what’s been suggested on many forums as a widescreen option. Essentially, it’s a zoomed in mode, with a portion of the top of the screen cropped off." Sirlin at one point in his blog said, "The widescreen mode zooms in the camera but does not change gameplay. I was skeptical at first, but it's turning out surprisingly good. Even hardcore players seem to like it, even prefer it to the regular 4:3 mode."

Remember, widescreen mode is optional.


Tournament Options

No news on whether a tournament mode will be added, but I'll copy and paste the info from the previous thread because it is still relevant.

The SNES version of SSF2 had a Tournament mode, and it would be cool to implement a tournament ladder option for up to 16 players (or up to 64 or 128 people if it’s feasible) in HD Remix. Take a page out of Halo 2 and create a tournament lobby (which could be public or private) and provide options like single-elimination, double-elimination, and even round-robin tournaments. Taking this idea a step further, you can have a group of people in a lobby look for a large tournament, and when matchmaking finds one, it seeds those friends into different brackets (as best as it can) so that they don't face against each other in the first round. If there are ranked tournaments, then only one person can look for a tournament.

Rey Jimenez said in the Capcom Digital blog, "I've seen a lot of comments, especially on SRK, asking for a tournament mode. That is something that we’re definitely looking into."

Online Matchmaking

There was a very good suggestion for a blind selection option. Setting it so that players won’t know whom their opponent selected until the versus screen will prevent players from playing chicken on who picks first (and the other picking a counter-character). Definitely set blind selection as a default option for ranked matches.

Add a visible time limit on the character selection screen. It will visibly dissuade opponents from staying on the versus screen indefinitely (like those in Hyper Fighting who pick up wins from quitting players who are tired of waiting). It also advises indecisive Super Turbo players how much time they have left before the game chooses a fighter for them.

Speaking of quitting, Sirlin has stated that quitters will be dealt with (most likely with an automatic loss). Some have also suggested adding a disconnect stat (like DoA4) so that you can see if an opponent likes to quit mid-match a lot.

Rey Jimenez revealed that ranking system will no longer just track win/loss ratios. It will be a system similar to chess' ranking system. Some have suggested implementing a decaying rating system, where rating points for everyone goes down after a week or so (or just for those who haven't played in a week). It prevents people who begin with an awesome record to permanently remaining on top of leaderboards if they never play again.

Furthermore, there will be two leaderboards, one for original ST, one for Rebalanced/Remixed ST.

Quarter Match

Update: Rey Jimenez confirmed that Quarter Match will be available, and according to a Game Informer article, it's going to be expanded. The Quarter Match lobby can now hold six people with four spectators and two players. Spectators can hang out and opt out of gameplay if they don’t want to play. Also, if someone drops out, someone can join a game that’s already in progress.

Netcode

In the 1up.com preview article, this interesting tidbit was revealed.

While Svensson can't detail just what it is that the developers are doing to counteract such issues with HD Remix, he offers a bold, potentially reassuring statement: "It's network code that's never been seen in a commercial fighting game before, and it will hopefully provide, even under relatively poor network connections, a much better experience than any fighting game that's ever existed.
Theatre/Gallery Mode

Once you beat the game with a character, you unlock his/her ending and additional artwork in this mode. It will give players an extra incentive to beat the game with every character.

Custom Win Quotes

The idea was shot down in the Capcom blog, so don't look forward to it.

Multi-button pause

It would be more for local play, but this was suggested to prevent accidental pauses during matches.

Training Mode

An option to display frame data would be great.

Some have suggested that Capcom should take notes from Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution's training mode. Rey said regarding this subject, "I've seen some very good suggestions using the training mode style from the SF EX series or VF 5, but I'm not sure if we have the time or extra file size to support such a feature."

At the very least, the option to turn off dizzy should be available.

I'll try to post more info as it becomes available

Start practicing, guys
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Old 10-29-07, 12:42 AM
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Holy shit those graphics look good!
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Old 10-29-07, 12:44 AM
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would like to see more old games released in HD (mortal kombat 1-2-3-U-4, ki1,ki2 would be nice)

this looks beautiful
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Old 10-29-07, 12:49 AM
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I plan on flying to California soon to help fine tune Fei Long for the finalized remixed version of the game. I am close friends with David Sirlin and a few of the other guys who are developing the remixed mode.

Let's just say that the battlefield will be much more leveled than it was before. Characters who had really really bad matchups will have better tools to fight with. You guys who play SF will definitely notice the new game feel.

You guys already know about Ryu's fake fireball. This totally changes his matchup vs Dhalsim...oh and the mindgames and bait trap possibilities. It's gonna be crazy!
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Old 10-29-07, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jessecrx
I plan on flying to California soon to help fine tune Fei Long for the finalized remixed version of the game. I am close friends with David Sirlin and a few of the other guys who are developing the remixed mode.

Let's just say that the battlefield will be much more leveled than it was before. Characters who had really really bad matchups will have better tools to fight with. You guys who play SF will definitely notice the new game feel.

You guys already know about Ryu's fake fireball. This totally changes his matchup vs Dhalsim...oh and the mindgames and bait trap possibilities. It's gonna be crazy!
That's pretty cool man! I watched Sirlin's vids from Comic-Con, and he is a demon! I'd like a chance to meet him, and get my butt kicked! I've only recently started playing SSFT again, and I need help!
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Old 10-29-07, 10:58 AM
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I'd like to see this in motion. I hope it has the crazy-fluid animation that SF3 had.
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Old 10-29-07, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by slop101
I'd like to see this in motion. I hope it has the crazy-fluid animation that SF3 had.
It doesn't, they're sticking with the same number of frames as the original game as to not "break" it.. but they've gone back on a few things they originally intended so who knows at this point. I also think the MB limit on XBLA factors in to it as well.
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Old 10-29-07, 11:22 AM
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must buy for me. My favorite version gets the true HD treatment. Can't wait!
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Old 10-29-07, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PixyJunket
It doesn't, they're sticking with the same number of frames as the original game as to not "break" it.. but they've gone back on a few things they originally intended so who knows at this point. I also think the MB limit on XBLA factors in to it as well.
Word.

I was speaking to Sirlin about altering the game, and he was telling me just how delicate the game engine is for SSF2 turbo. If a hit box property is changed for one move, it can alter other moves in the game for everyone. So adding animation would mean totally rebuilding the game from the ground up. That takes big bux and lotsa time.
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Old 10-29-07, 09:35 PM
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Great updates, thanks!
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Old 10-30-07, 09:11 PM
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This game is taking forever to come out. Hearing a 2008 release has just killed the hype.
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Old 10-30-07, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by slop101
I'd like to see this in motion. I hope it has the crazy-fluid animation that SF3 had.
Did you check out the youtube video thats linked in the first post? Early footage, but some idea of how it looks in motion.
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Old 10-31-07, 12:44 AM
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I actually missed that - thanks for pointing it out.

Yeah, it's the same frames of animation, but I guess that's a good thing, since it keeps the (classic) gameplay intact.
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Old 10-31-07, 01:13 AM
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Old 10-31-07, 02:10 AM
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Thanks for the vid, Harry Lime!

Can't wait to play the remixed version!
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Old 10-31-07, 09:53 PM
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sweet! a must buy for me too, can't wait! now, i need a wireless stick... any good wireless stick for the PS3 or X360 for this game?
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Old 11-01-07, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ocelot
sweet! a must buy for me too, can't wait! now, i need a wireless stick... any good wireless stick for the PS3 or X360 for this game?
Eh...you may wanna stick to wired sticks. Any bit of lag will effect the games performance. Most wireless sticks have "input lag" so most people stick to wired sticks for the best results.

The Virtua Fighter 5 stick should be perfect for this!
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Old 11-02-07, 01:32 PM
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Fine... wired stick then, i don't have problem with wired controller for this game. Got some shopping to do...
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Old 11-05-07, 09:21 PM
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A bunch of old art assets from the work in progress game were leaked.

In response though, Capcom commented on their blog, as well as providing some more cool info:

http://blog.capcom.com/archives/544

I really like the way the development on this has been going, giving fans a lot of info of the work in progress.
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Old 11-05-07, 09:27 PM
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Also, some details about the remix.

All Dragon Punches are easier because the timing window to perform them is no longer random—you now always get a 15 frame window rather than a random number between 8 and 15 (and you only had a small chance of getting 15 in the original game). 360 motions are easier because they no longer require you to hold up and accidentally jump. Spinning Pile Drives can now be done by half-circle forward, then back + punch or half circle back, then forward + punch. There is a lot of leeway on these commands so that they can still be done from defensive crouch, and the old 360 commands still work too.

Most commands ending with diagonally up/forward have been changed to much easier motions. Sagat’s Tiger Knee is a Dragon Punch motion now (as it is in later games). Cammy’s Hooligan Throw and Fei Long’s Flying Kicks are now fireball motions (qcf + p and qcf + k, respectively), so no more accidental jumping frustrations.

The “mash moves” require less mashing. That means it takes fewer button presses to activate Chun Li’s Lighting Legs, Honda’s Hundred Hand Slap, and Blanka’s Electricity.

All moves that required three simultaneous button presses now only require two. This is specifically to make the moves easier to execute on a gamepad (as opposed to an arcade joystick). Because of the way you hold a gamepad, it’s easier to hit the jab + short buttons together with your thumb than it is to hit the jab+strong punch buttons. For this reason, there are a lot of jab+short commands now. Zangief’s kick lariat, Vega’s single defensive flip, Blanka’s hop, and T.Hawk’s aerial dive can all be done with jab+short *as well as* the original three button commands. Zangief’s punch lariat and Vega’s double defensive flip can be done with either strong+forward, fierce+roundhouse, or the original commands. Dhalsim and Akuma’s teleports only require two punch or two kick buttons now, as does Balrog’s turn punch (but don’t worry, you can’t charge turn punch while having access to fierce and roundhouse at the same time).
Quite a lot more here:

http://blog.capcom.com/archives/542
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Old 11-06-07, 03:09 AM
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There was a timing window for the DP? Huh.

Wow, a good Thawk would be something to see. Still, R/K/D were really hard to beat in SSF2T.
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Old 11-09-07, 01:07 AM
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Straight from David Sirlin

This is the first part in an extended series of articles from David Sirlin, detailing the changes we’ve made to the rebalanced mode of the new Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix project. This first article explains some of the motivation behind the project, reviews its design goals, and eliminates some of the misinformation we’ve seen floating around about the game. We’ll dig into the meaty details of some changes in the articles to follow!

Here’s a brief bio on our guest blogger:

David Sirlin has competed in Street Fighter tournaments for 16 years, and for 11 years he has helped organize and run the tournament series that started as B3 and has now become the international Evolution Championships. He represented the United States in SSF2T in Japan’s Super Battle Opera tournament, wrote the competitive gaming book Playing to Win, and provided narration for Bang the Machine, a documentary film about the Street Fighter community. He’s now overseeing the design and gameplay on Super Street Fighter 2: HD Remix.

And now, on with the article!


Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix Gameplay, Part 1: Design Goals

Super Street Fighter 2 HD Remix was originally going to be a graphical update of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, but along the way some magic happened. HD Remix is now a completely new Street Fighter game—the 6th installment in the SF2 series. It also includes an arcade perfect gameplay version of SSF2T with new art and music. You’re actually getting two games in one.

For years, I’ve been a care-taker of the franchise, helping to present the games in the best way in Capcom Classics Collection 1, 2, and Remixed. Now I have the honor and burden of improving upon what I consider the very best Street Fighter game ever: Super Turbo. So many have said it’s impossible to improve upon the polished gem of ST, but as Wayne Gretzky said, “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take,” so Capcom and I felt that it was worth taking a shot.

Here are the design goals:

1) Make the game easier to play—more inclusive rather than exclusive
2) Make the game even more balanced for tournament play
3) Add fun as long as it doesn’t interfere with #2.


Easier Controls
Inside Street Fighter, there is a wonderful battle of wits, but many potential players are locked out of experiencing it because they can’t Dragon Punch or do Fei Long’s flying kicks, or whatever other joystick gymnastics they require. I’d like to reverse this trend. There’s only so far I can go with this and still call it SF2, but wherever I could, I turned the knob towards easy execution of moves. Let’s emphasize good decision making—the true core of competitive games—and get rid of artificially difficult commands.

This will get more players interested in the game, eventually leading to more competition. It will also get players past the awkward beginner phase faster and into the intermediate phase where the interesting strategy starts to emerge.

Easier Moves Overview
• Dragon Punch timing more forgiving
• 360s alternate motions
• Tiger knee motions removed
• Mash moves easier
• All 3 button moves changed to 2 buttons


All Dragon Punches are easier because the timing window to perform them is no longer random—you now always get a 15 frame window rather than a random number between 8 and 15 (and you only had a small chance of getting 15 in the original game). 360 motions are easier because they no longer require you to hold up and accidentally jump. Spinning Pile Drives can now be done by half-circle forward, then back + punch or half circle back, then forward + punch. There is a lot of leeway on these commands so that they can still be done from defensive crouch, and the old 360 commands still work too.

Most commands ending with diagonally up/forward have been changed to much easier motions. Sagat’s Tiger Knee is a Dragon Punch motion now (as it is in later games). Cammy’s Hooligan Throw and Fei Long’s Flying Kicks are now fireball motions (qcf + p and qcf + k, respectively), so no more accidental jumping frustrations.

The “mash moves” require less mashing. That means it takes fewer button presses to activate Chun Li’s Lighting Legs, Honda’s Hundred Hand Slap, and Blanka’s Electricity.

All moves that required three simultaneous button presses now only require two. This is specifically to make the moves easier to execute on a gamepad (as opposed to an arcade joystick). Because of the way you hold a gamepad, it’s easier to hit the jab + short buttons together with your thumb than it is to hit the jab+strong punch buttons. For this reason, there are a lot of jab+short commands now. Zangief’s kick lariat, Vega’s single defensive flip, Blanka’s hop, and T.Hawk’s aerial dive can all be done with jab+short *as well as* the original three button commands. Zangief’s punch lariat and Vega’s double defensive flip can be done with either strong+forward, fierce+roundhouse, or the original commands. Dhalsim and Akuma’s teleports only require two punch or two kick buttons now, as does Balrog’s turn punch (but don’t worry, you can’t charge turn punch while having access to fierce and roundhouse at the same time).

All of this taken together means that it’s easier than ever to get your moves to come out, especially on a gamepad. These changes alone increase the fun factor of the game quite a bit, especially for T.Hawk, Cammy, and Fei Long because their moves were so hard to do before.

Balanced for Tournament Play
Super Turbo is a delicate ecosystem, so changing anything can affect game balance a lot. Because there’s so much potential to wreck things, we need a plan that leverages all the knowledge we have about high-level play over the last 13 years. I picture a flat piece of wood with 100 indentations on it and 100 marbles. If we have 90 of the marbles resting in the right indentations, we wouldn’t want to violently shake the whole thing around in hopes of fixing the last 10.

After over a decade of tournaments, we know which characters are the best (Balrog and Dhalsim for sure, and Old Sagat in the US and Vega in Japan, with Chun Li as an honorable mention). We know which characters are the worst (Cammy, Fei Long, T.Hawk, Zangief, and Blanka). And which are in the middle. My goal is to buff up the worst characters so they reach the middle (or upper middle at best). Next, buff the middle characters slightly, but not so much that they become top tier. And finally, leave the top tier characters intact. In other words, the idea is to compress the tiers so that the difference in power between the best characters and worst characters is much smaller than before.

This approach gives us some margin of error. I’m shooting to make the previously weak characters about 2nd tier, but if they end up a little worse than that, they’re still be much more able to win than before and if they end up a little stronger, there’s some wiggle room before they overshadow the top tier.

Keeping the top tier at about the same power level is a good idea for a few reasons. First, we have a very solid idea of how powerful a character needs to be to be top tier (same as always!). Next, to use my last analogy, rolling around fewer marbles is better, so it’s safer to leave the top tier than it would be to bring them down in power and have no idea who’s good anymore. Also, as I said when I rebalanced Puzzle Fighter, we already know what the game felt like with the previous top tier characters, and it was fun, so it’s better to balance the game around that power level than a new, lower power level. And finally, to restate that, there are so many games that try to fix *everything* and nerf everything to such a low power level that even though things might be “fair,” they are no longer fun. I call this the Marvel vs. Street Fighter syndrome.

That said, there are some nerfs to the top tier. It sounds like I just contradicted myself, so I want you to understand this important distinction. Imagine that a top tier character has 10 awesome things about him or 10 ways to win. If we really wanted to nerf his power level, we would make all 10 of these things, say, 20% worse. (We’re not doing that, don’t worry!) But what if one of those 10 things is so abuseable that it can be repeated over and over pretty mindlessly, leading to shallow gameplay? This is a case where I think we can remove or tone down that 1 option and leave the other 9 just as strong as ever. This does not even necessarily reduce the overall power level of the character—it just forces the player out of repeating loops and into other more interesting options.

There are several of these situations in Super Turbo, and rather than trying to muck with every possible one, I think it’s just safer to remove the repeatable abuse from the top tier characters only—the abuseable stuff that can often decides matches. The various tricks from the worse characters never added up to enough power to dominate anyway.

It’s ironic that as a player, I seek out exactly these kinds of repeatable, mindless moves, yet as a designer they are what I’m trying to remove (again, from the top characters only). The list of toned down things is very, very short in comparison to the list of new, powered up stuff, so I think that fun factor is going up in addition to the compressing the tiers for balance.

In the coming weeks, I’ll detail the changes for each character in this new version of Street Fighter. I know you’ll find it easier to play, and I hope you find even more strategic and with fewer lopsided matches than ever.

–Sirlin
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Old 11-09-07, 01:15 AM
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Er... that's what i linked to above
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Old 11-20-07, 04:24 PM
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Another new blog update, this time about Ryu:

http://blog.capcom.com/archives/558
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Old 03-13-08, 03:06 AM
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More good news! Excuse the big pic...they changed the art style. Talk about BRIGHT!

Some video footage and interview with David Sirlin
http://www.gamespot.com/video/939066...ix-interview-1

http://blog.capcom.com/archives/998
One of the coolest features of the game is the new “HD Remix” mode in the game. As you guys have read from David Sirlin’s posts, we’ve been doing some changes to the game to create a mode in Super Turbo using input from some of the best Street Fighter players in the world. As I’m sure David would tell you, this is not as easy as it may sound. It’s taken many revisions, sessions of playing with pros, and further refinement to get it to where it is now, and it still may see a few more changes before release time. (From what I’m hearing, after a session of playing HD Remix, the pros are finding the changes so fun that it’s hard to go back to normal Super Turbo when they get home, which is super cool!)

As previously mentioned, we’ve also been hard at work on the online features. Recent tech solutions dedicated to online play have really raised the bar on what it means to have lag-less input during online play. We’ve put a ton of time in meeting this expectation and are confident that SFHD will provide the best online console experience to date.

I’ve seemed to be getting pretty long in my post here, so before I bore you to death, let me give a quick run down on a few more features that this extra time has allowed us to put in:

• 8-man Tournament Mode. This has been especially challenging with the new netcode
• Both Remixed and Classic music
• Hit Box Display. (Woohoo!)


There are more that we’ll announce later on, but I really wanted to mention the hit box feature as I know the guys at SRK would love to hear about that.

The last thing I’ll mention is concerning the talks the have been occurring online concerning the filesize of the game with respect to features on the 360 and the PS3 versions. I can officially say that the filesize will not be an issue. With great help from the guys at Microsoft, we will be able to offer the same features on both platforms to the same quality as each other. To use the term I’ve been reading on the forums, neither console version will be “gimped” due to any kind of limitation.

Overall, the project has proved to be extremely challenging, something that I’m sure that all those involved at Capcom, Backbone, and Udon would readily admit to. I think in the end, the product you guys get in the end will be the most ambitious title put into the console download space and be well worth the wait.
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