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PC gaming dead, for real this time?

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PC gaming dead, for real this time?

Old 01-27-07, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Altimus Prime
You're not understanding. People will pay $1,000 for a good computer because of the many, varied things you can do with it.
But a $300 computer will do most everything else (aside from gaming) that most people need (internet, word processing, spreadsheets) with minimal differences from a $1,000 PC. And even at $1,000, you are not getting a top of the line PC (consider that top of the line video cards often run $500-600 alone).

And the biggest issue with the cost of PC gaming is that it takes ~$500 in upgrades every year to play the newest games with the best settings.

Even with console games costing more, I've never heard someone claim that PC gaming was cheaper. More powerful, often better graphics? Sure. But on total cost, it isn't close.

PC gaming won't die, but it certainly is an expensive habit. And that, IMO, is why it'll remain fairly niche compared to consoles.
Old 01-27-07, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mbs
And the biggest issue with the cost of PC gaming is that it takes ~$500 in upgrades every year to play the newest games with the best settings.
That only effects the graphics whores though. Games still look and play great with lower settings.

I just played through FEAR with a pretty crappy 128MB video card and had a blast and it looked great even with all the fancy effects off or turned down.

But I do agree that it is more expensive, as because you are right in that most people don't need a $1,000 or more computer.

Companies like Dell offer lots of computers lots cheaper that will do everything 99% of people need to do on their home PC, but don't have the power to run 3D games.
Old 01-27-07, 09:03 PM
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I have about 200 purchased retail PC games, and even prefer the mouse/kb for FPS games but for some reason now that I think about it I havent even purchased a game for the PC in probably a year at least. And I got a new computer 3 months ago, so it can handle just about anything. The only game ive even thought about buying is Missing 2:Evidence, but still havent even purchased that--probably waiting for it to get to $9.99 like all PC games do within 6 months.

PC Gaming has died completely for me, and I don't even know why. I'm not a console fanboy or anything, i like what every platform has to offer. I guess I can blame it on the 360/wii/ps3 and relatively cheap large 1080p screens where I can play comfortably on my couch. Maybe it's because I work a lot on the PC and I want to get away from it.
Old 01-27-07, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mbs
But a $300 computer will do most everything else (aside from gaming) that most people need (internet, word processing, spreadsheets) with minimal differences from a $1,000 PC. And even at $1,000, you are not getting a top of the line PC (consider that top of the line video cards often run $500-600 alone).
Exactly. My PC just died recently, so I had a new PC built. I used all "older" parts, and it cost me just a tad over $300. Sure it won't play any high requirement game, but it handles the internet/office work just fine. You don't need a super duper 3 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, ultra-extreme-badass graphics card PC for internet/office work.
Old 01-27-07, 10:03 PM
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I know a few people who have built a near top of the line PC by buying individual parts on line for just over $600. For the price of a PS3 you get a whole lot more (including games from the last decade). Plus without a PC, would we have DVDTalk?
Old 01-27-07, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Trout
I know a few people who have built a near top of the line PC by buying individual parts on line for just over $600. For the price of a PS3 you get a whole lot more (including games from the last decade). Plus without a PC, would we have DVDTalk?
The typical console gamer is going to have none of this building individual components to create their own PC. The same goes for the general public. Hell, I have a degree in IT, have been using computers since I could read, and can pick up virtually any application like it's second nature. I have built three computers in my lifetime out of the probably 30 I have used on a regular basis at home. There are times when it makes sense to build an outstanding machine, but DVDTalk, playing Civ 3, word processing, and paying bills is not that profile. That's my home computer use in a nutshell at the moment.
Old 01-27-07, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy James
The typical console gamer is going to have none of this building individual components to create their own PC.
Obviously. That is why they are playing consoles.

Every year this thread pops up, and every year PC gaming doesn't die...
Old 01-27-07, 11:00 PM
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I hope Vista/DX10 turns things around for the PC. But just like some are saying that Sony is arrogant and has made giant missteps with the PS3, I think the same can be said for Microsoft and the overpriced Windows Vista. Piracy is out of control as well. I see these two issues as possible reasons PC gaming could be in trouble. I also see a third - an apparent conspiracy by the industry to kill PC gaming and/or give all of the attention to consoles.

For instance, why did Rainbow Six Vegas come out for the PC a week after the Xbox 360 version? (And even then, I couldn't find the PC version anywhere.) Even worse - Resident Evil 4 came out on Gamecube two years ago, so why are we still waiting for Ubisoft to release its port for the PC?

Then there's all the skewed statistics. Why, until just recently, were stats for PC game sales not including MMORPG subscriptions or digital downloads? And do those stats currently include sales from online retailers? (In the past, it was just reflecting B&M stores.)

And how come these stats always point out PC gaming as being a "niche market" by indicating, for instance, that it represents 15% of sales versus 85% sales for console games? This is incredibly unfair and misleading. They just bunched all sales for all consoles and compared them to PC games. Why not compare the percentage of games sold for the Nintendo DS to the rest of the industry, then proclaim the DS is a niche market??? If you're going to quote 15% sales for PC games, the rest of the consoles need to be broken down individually as well (i.e., PS3, PS2, Xbox360, Xbox, PSP, DS, Gamecube, Gameboy, etc.).

So I think PC gaming could be a lot healthier than what many reports would have us believe.
Old 01-27-07, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Trout
Obviously. That is why they are playing consoles.

Every year this thread pops up, and every year PC gaming doesn't die...
That's pretty much it. Why is it that some console gamers are so obesessed with the death of PC gaming? I primarily play games on my PC, but I don't want Nintendo to go out of business.

There are some genres (adventure, PC RPG, strategy, MMO) that I would never play on a console.
Old 01-28-07, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Trout
Obviously. That is why they are playing consoles.
Right. I'm just saying you can't really compare the PS3 to your $600 put it together yourself gaming PC. If J6P did go into PC gaming, it would probably be a $1500-2000 a year hobby because that's what he'd get talked into spending on the PC by the big box retailer he prefers.
Old 01-28-07, 12:10 AM
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PC gaming "dies" every time a new console comes out, and "re-emerges" when the console cycle is "mature," which means that the console hardware is three or four years obsolete.

As long as the console experience is similar to playing the PC version with the settings maxxed out, the console is going to be king. But once the console tech is old, the developers who like to work on the bleeding edge of tech will gravitate back to PC, and, if the games make it to the console, they'll be somewhat compromised in the process. Think Doom 3 on the Xbox.

PC controls are also pretty substandard for strategy gaming, and MMOs are still pretty rooted in the PC market, though WoW is going to be an MMO category killer for the foreseeable future.
Old 01-28-07, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
And using a keyboard for gaming is pure masochism. I absolute refuse to play that way.
FPS are only playable for me on a PC. The dual analog stick controls are masochism IMO. For any other types of games I simply plug an Xbox360 controller into my USB port and I'm good to go.
Old 01-28-07, 12:13 AM
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All I could think when I saw this post was, "How worse could your timing be?" A week after a WoW Expansion sells 2.4m copies in a day and a few weeks before Supreme Commander.
Old 01-28-07, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ScandalUMD
PC gaming "dies" every time a new console comes out, and "re-emerges" when the console cycle is "mature," which means that the console hardware is three or four years obsolete.

As long as the console experience is similar to playing the PC version with the settings maxxed out, the console is going to be king. But once the console tech is old, the developers who like to work on the bleeding edge of tech will gravitate back to PC, and, if the games make it to the console, they'll be somewhat compromised in the process. Think Doom 3 on the Xbox.

PC controls are also pretty substandard for strategy gaming, and MMOs are still pretty rooted in the PC market, though WoW is going to be an MMO category killer for the foreseeable future.
Outstanding post here.

In light of what is said, it makes me wonder if we'll continue to see the loser of the console war each generation push up the release of the next generation to take advantage of the disparity. I know it sort of happened accidentally with the 360 versus the PS3, but it seems to have worked really nicely for Microsoft. Maybe next time, the PS4 comes out a year before the 720, shortening the window for the PC to shine.
Old 01-28-07, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy James
Maybe next time, the PS4 comes out a year before the 720, shortening the window for the PC to shine.

I really doubt that. The 720 or whatever MS decides to call it will probably come out in 2010 (5 years after the 360's 2005 launch). The PS4 would have to launch in 2009, giving the PS3 barely a 3 year life. The only thing I expect Sony to launch in 2009 would be a "slim" PSThree.
Old 01-28-07, 12:40 AM
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im still playing Unreal Tournament i dont care if its ancient.
Old 01-28-07, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mbs
And the biggest issue with the cost of PC gaming is that it takes ~$500 in upgrades every year to play the newest games with the best settings.
Only for those hardcore nuts that insist on always buying the latest gen video cards so they can stroke their e-penis on tech sites when posting their latest 3D Mark scores. The overwhelming majority of PC gamers can build a system, and not worry about upgrading for a few years.

Besides, it's not like console gaming isn't without it's extra costs. With the 360 or PS3, you need to shell out the $$$ for a quality HDTV, else they look like ass.....that's not much different than spending to extra money to make a gaming PC over a typical PC. Anyway, I don't care if PC gaming does cost more.....you get what you pay for, because the PC certainly has much better games than any console.

I just wish I could get my console playing friends to switch to PC gaming. Sadly, they won't switch over because they are afraid they may have to actually read a game manual before playing a PC game, whereas the typical console game takes about 3 minutes of button mashing before figuring it out without instructions. To paraphrase why my one friend told me when he plays console games "I work all day, when I game I don't want to have to read a manual or think to hard, I just want mindless fun"....pretty much sums up consoles.
Old 01-28-07, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ScandalUMD
PC controls are also pretty substandard for strategy gaming
Huh? How is a keyboard+mouse substandard for strategy gaming? I couldn't imagine playing a RTS or TBS game without anything other than a kb/mouse.
Old 01-28-07, 03:38 AM
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pc gaming has been taking a large dump for the past few years, and its about ready to come outta the bathroom refreshed again.

there is no doubt that consoles hold the mass of the gamer revenue that comes into the game companies and for one reason or another people either like to game on their computer or their console and blah blah blah, no one is not better than the other it is just what you like and no one really cares what you like.

sales figures however are what game makers like, which is why microsoft is introducing this xbox live anywhere deal for their vista platform. if that doesn't breath some hot air up pc gaming's ass i don't know what will. being able to game on your computer against your smack talking best friend xbox 360 hardcore gamer. i see a lot of "ha ha my keyboard and mouse beat you" or " ha ha you stick suck ass even though you're using your keyboard now and can't bitch about the controller" happing which is going to be great fun since i love to play games on both.

if anything is really going to death right now on the game market it is the ps3. i think compy will be just fine.

*standing in goldshire *
Old 01-28-07, 08:55 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by taffer
I really doubt that. The 720 or whatever MS decides to call it will probably come out in 2010 (5 years after the 360's 2005 launch). The PS4 would have to launch in 2009, giving the PS3 barely a 3 year life. The only thing I expect Sony to launch in 2009 would be a "slim" PSThree.
I would think it really depends on how badly the PS3 loses (if it is the loser) and how badly Sony wants the market share back.
Old 01-28-07, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gigantopithecus
im still playing Unreal Tournament i dont care if its ancient.

I'll second that. I still play it with all the mods and maps once-in-awhile though it's hard to find much on it now. I still think it and Quake propelled online gaming to the forefront.

Long ago when there was Sega, Nintendo, and PS1, PC gaming just ruled for the simple fact it had online gaming and the "wow" factor (that's graphics) and semi-realism. The ability on playing online and a new generation of games (Unreal, Quake, War Sims, Star Wars, etc..) helped expand PC gaming.

Now times have changed. Instead of plopping down mega $$$ for all sorts of tech parts that become outdated faster than you can say what the..., and dealing with software and hardware issues you can buy a simple all-in-one gaming machine where all you have to do is pop in a disc and you're up and playing. It's the ultimate plug-and-play so simple a 7 year old can do it. Not only that but you have it on a big screen instead of some 17 or 19 inch tube. You also get a couch, the floor, the futon or lazy-boy instead of a office chair. No more downloading the latest driver, a series of patches and reading a 100 page manual with a control scheme that makes flying a plane a cakewalk.

Where though it all counts, at least for most, is that "wow' factor. The one area that pc gaming ruled is pretty darn close, again for the average gamers, but for purist one cannot beat the technical aspects of the pc which we have to admit is true. The other area where pc gaming held an advantage was in "mods". With Quake and Unreal not only did the maker insert new stuff it got help from gamers making maps, levels, voice packs. It kept the game alive. While it's not possible with consoles software makers have offered 'map packs" or MP mods but not nearly on the same scale as PC gaming.

But the biggest change is the availability and affordability of Broadband. Once out of reach is now everywhere. Again consoles have the edge as it doesn't take much to get up and running.

Hey you want some friends over to play a game. No problem since you have four ports right up front and that big couch and floor. Try that with a pc.

Is PC gaming dying? Not really, it's just not that dominate as it once was with all the technical advances be it broadband, consoles, chips, ram and such. With consoles it much more user friendly, affordable, and available and in this day-and-age "That's" what consumers want.


Kenny J - Buzz Starhopper - 360 and a five year old Dell
Old 01-28-07, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy James
In light of what is said, it makes me wonder if we'll continue to see the loser of the console war each generation push up the release of the next generation to take advantage of the disparity.
I hope not, the combination of higher prices and shorter life spans would probably push me out of gaming all together.

I was already annoyed with MS for knocking a year off the 5 year "standard" life span. But that was somewhat off set with Sony giving the PS2 6 years and Nintendo sticking to 5.
Old 01-28-07, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
If all you play are FPS and RTS, sure. For everything else, it sucks. And even then, while the mouse is indeed great for FPS, being forced to use the keyboard as well kills any of its advantage.
For other games you can just use a gamepad (like the 360 controller which has a PC version).

But I agree with you on FPS. The keyboard part sucks, but the mouse is so much better than aiming with the right stick.

I still give a slight edge to the PC as aiming quickly and accurate is more important than walking/strafing accurately in FPS games.

But I too would like something that was an analog stick with a few buttons (for jump, reload, the action button etc) that was made just for the left hand--something kind of like the Wii nunchuck would be great.
Old 01-28-07, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Silt
Besides, it's not like console gaming isn't without it's extra costs. With the 360 or PS3, you need to shell out the $$$ for a quality HDTV, else they look like ass.....that's not much different than spending to extra money to make a gaming PC over a typical PC.
Fairly similar, but I think with HDTV most people aren't buying them primarily for gaming but just because they want a big HDTV for TV, sports, DVDs and gaming.

So the HDTV is basically like the PC, and the console is like the video card. But you're right that price probably balances out in the end.

Where you are wrong is saying that the 360 and PS3 look like ass on an SDTV. They don't look as good to be sure, but games like Gears of War still look jaw droppingly amazing on an SDTV. There are just a handful of games where the developers were lazy and didn't' test them on SDTVs where they look pretty crappy, have unreadable text etc.
Old 01-28-07, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
The difference between the hardware you need to achieve those many varied things, and one optimal for gaming, is in itself greater than the absolute price of a console. Plus, it keeps its freshness for 4-5 years. Adding the costs of keeping your PC current for the lifespan of an average console, it becomes an order of magnitude more expensive. Sure, the graphics do improve as you upgrade, but for me the cost and hassle are by far not worth it.
I bought a $300 video card last February. Games still look fantastic a year later, and I don't intend to buy a new one until three years have passed, at least.

If you're a graphics whore, you will upgrade your video card once a year at $350-400 a pop. If you're not, then a $300 card will do you for at least three years. And, if you're serious about gaming as most PC gamers are, then you will own at least 2 consoles. 360+Wii= $550.

But at any rate, gaming isn't a cheap hobby any way you look at it. Can we just let PC games and console games coexist? I enjoy both Zelda and Civ4, and I wouldn't want play the former on a PC or the latter on a console.

Although, I would be interested in a version of Civ for the DS. I can see the touchscreen being the only good way to interact with that type of game available on a non-PC gaming platform.

Last edited by Tracer Bullet; 01-28-07 at 12:02 PM.

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