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Why don't more PC games come on DVD?

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Why don't more PC games come on DVD?

Old 03-07-06, 05:16 PM
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Why don't more PC games come on DVD?

Seriously. I just bought DDO: Stormreach and it comes on 4 CDs. If you own a computer capable of running this game, you have a DVD drive. Hell, if you've purchased a computer in the last FIVE YEARS you have a DVD drive.

Now they're starting to compress the installation files to get it on fewer CDS (!), so that the install takes even longer. Just put it on a damn DVD already.

What is the reasoning behind this?
Old 03-07-06, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
What is the reasoning behind this?
$

Pressing multiple CD-roms is much cheaper than pressing a DVD.
Old 03-07-06, 06:54 PM
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Believe it or not, not everybody has a DVD drive. When I worked at EB, many times people would turn down a game because it was only on a DVD.
Old 03-07-06, 09:22 PM
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The same thing happened in the '90s when 5.25" floppy disks were being phased out by CD-ROM. Games were being released on multiple floppies, and it took awhile before developers realized that gamers would rather have 1 CD than a bunch of floppies. Today's developers did not learn that lesson, and now history is repeating itself.

I agree that any serious PC gamer has a DVD drive. I don't see why game companies are rapidly pushing forward with newer and better video cards and processors, but they are stuck on primitive CD technology. That really makes no sense, especially since a basic DVD drive only costs $20-$30 now.

The UK's standard has been DVD for quite awhile now. If a game here in the US comes out on 3 or 4 or more CDs with no DVD version, then I buy the UK version on 1 DVD. For instance, Far Cry is only available in a 5-CD set in the US. There is no DVD version here, so I bought the UK DVD Far Cry.

If I remember right, Oblivion is being released on DVD only, so maybe this will be the start of the DVD-only standard in the US.
Old 03-07-06, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean Kousoulas
Believe it or not, not everybody has a DVD drive. When I worked at EB, many times people would turn down a game because it was only on a DVD.
I don't believe it. What games were these people buying, Myst? If you're playing pretty much any game released in the past two years, you have a computer with a DVD drive.
Old 03-07-06, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
I don't believe it. What games were these people buying, Myst? If you're playing pretty much any game released in the past two years, you have a computer with a DVD drive.
Well regardless if you believe it or not, it's definitely true. Not everyone has DVD drives, and there are systems that still come out lacking them. For instance, my company uses some Dell systems because of the deals we recieve on their high end boxes, and the last batch of Dell Dimension 9150s came with only CD-Rom drives. And that's a dual-core P4 system.

Even so, while its annoying, it really isn't a big deal. Just a small annoyance, since after the game installation it really doesn't matter how many discs it is. It's more annoying having games that require the CD
Old 03-08-06, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
Today's developers did not learn that lesson, and now history is repeating itself.
Does the developer even make that decision? I've always assumed it was the publisher/distributer who did. You know, the people who actually make the discs. In my mind, once a publisher agrees to publish the game, they would mandate how that gets distributed. It would then be on the developer to deliver a "gold" product that installs and/or runs from that constraint.

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
I agree that any serious PC gamer has a DVD drive.
You can't say that every "serious" gamer has a DVD-Rom anyway. But what you can say is that everyone with a DVD-Rom can still read CD-Roms. In fact, it flies directly in the face of the whole argument! Why would a "serious gamer" need a DVD drive if NO games are released on a DVD format? For watching movies? That's not gaming and has nothing to do with how serious a gamer is.

It doesn't make sense to publish it both ways. Manufacturing and retail shelf-space nightmares. You cater to the largest consumer base and thanks to DVD's inherent backwards-compatibility with the CD format, it is a no-brainer decision for the manufacturer.

Last edited by pinata242; 03-08-06 at 12:15 AM.
Old 03-08-06, 12:57 AM
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I just bought DDO this past Friday too and mine came on a single DVD.

How is the game by the way? I haven't bothered to try or even install it yet. I only have a 1.6 which is the minimum req, so i am kinda worried about how it will perform on my machine.

Last edited by Maxflier; 03-08-06 at 01:00 AM.
Old 03-08-06, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by slop101
$

Pressing multiple CD-roms is much cheaper than pressing a DVD.

I don't know for sure but I seriously doubt that.
Old 03-08-06, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Maxflier
I just bought DDO this past Friday too and mine came on a single DVD.

How is the game by the way? I haven't bothered to try or even install it yet. I only have a 1.6 which is the minimum req, so i am kinda worried about how it will perform on my machine.
I looked for a DVD version and didn't see one.

I only got to play for about an hour so far. I had some trouble with getting the game to run- figured out it was a router firewall problem. So far it's entertaining and very nice looking, but it's not really a MMO like WoW or EQ2. Turbine better be planning on releasing content updates every month if they want to justify the monthly fee.
Old 03-08-06, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pinata242
You can't say that every "serious" gamer has a DVD-Rom anyway. But what you can say is that everyone with a DVD-Rom can still read CD-Roms. In fact, it flies directly in the face of the whole argument! Why would a "serious gamer" need a DVD drive if NO games are released on a DVD format? For watching movies? That's not gaming and has nothing to do with how serious a gamer is.
Sure you can, and I will. DVD drives (even recordable ones) are so cheap now, why would you opt for a CD drive instead? Aside from movies and games that do come on DVDs, it's a great backup system.

Dell's not really a great example- do serious gamers really buy systems from them?

I mean, okay, I have an XPS400, but it came with a DVD drive standard.
Old 03-08-06, 10:16 AM
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DVD Drive is not the same thing as DVD burner. A burner has further functions, true. But does that have anything to do with gaming? No.

DVD Burner > DVD Drive > CD Drive in terms of compatibility.

It is still catering to the largest installed base.

Originally Posted by tanman
Originally Posted by slop101
Pressing multiple CD-roms is much cheaper than pressing a DVD.
I don't know for sure but I seriously doubt that.
It costs money to even get set up to press DVDs. If the manufacturer is set up for CDs and it may cost 10 cents to press 5 cds and 8cents to press 1 DVD, is that difference enough to justify buying and setting up an entire new manufacturing process?
Old 03-08-06, 11:38 AM
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Publishers also aren't going to push DVD only releases just to cater to "serious" gamers because there are people that game on systems greater then 3 years old. I remember seeing those system statistics from Valve on the systems people were running to play CS and I was surprised at how poor some of the systems were.

Publishers do play a large role in deciding on a DVD only release or not. Most will avoid launching DVD and CD versions because they end up being two different product numbers and add confusion and mixed stock in actual stores.
Old 03-08-06, 01:54 PM
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Wasn't the original Myst the reason everyone switched to CD-ROM drives?
Old 03-08-06, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
Dell's not really a great example- do serious gamers really buy systems from them?

No, in my experience, most serious gamers build their own PCs. It is cheaper plus you get exactly what you want.

Another thing, Dell, Gateway, and other PC companies usually do not put real video cards in their PCs. They use those Intel "Extreme" integrated chips. Serious PC gamers laugh at those. There is nothing extreme about them besides maybe their extreme suckage. If you really want to play PC games, especially modern PC games, you need a real video card, either a Geforce or Radeon.

Also, in the past, Dell and Gateway have only used Pentium processors. Pentiums are good for general office work, but Athlons are much better for gaming. I don't know if Dell and Gateway are using Athlons nowadays though because I haven't bothered to look up on it.

Originally Posted by fumanstan
Publishers also aren't going to push DVD only releases just to cater to "serious" gamers because there are people that game on systems greater then 3 years old.
True, there are some gamers who have 3 year old PCs, but they will have to upgrade soon. I would like to see a 3 year old PC run the latest games like F.E.A.R. on anything but the lowest of the low settings. With the next-gen on the horizon, old PCs will not run these games at all. Oblivion definitely will not run on a 3 year old PC. The PC would probably explode in the attempt.

Given that you can buy a DVD drive for less than $30 nowadays, I really do not see why every gamer would not have one. Games cost $40-$50 a pop, and most gamers probably buy at least 1 game a month. Spending $30 for a one time deal on a DVD drive is dirt cheap in comparison.
Old 03-08-06, 02:21 PM
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They probably want to get to the widest audience possible so they have them on CD's.
Old 03-08-06, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
True, there are some gamers who have 3 year old PCs, but they will have to upgrade soon. I would like to see a 3 year old PC run the latest games like F.E.A.R. on anything but the lowest of the low settings. With the next-gen on the horizon, old PCs will not run these games at all. Oblivion definitely will not run on a 3 year old PC. The PC would probably explode in the attempt.
This is exacly why I stopped being a "serious" gamer on the PC. I just can't afford to keep up with it. Now, if they still released Wing Commander games, I'd probably be upgrading in parallel still

I built my current PC around 5 years ago. Running an AMD 1.33 Tbird (I think, can't even remember). 256mb of PC2100 DDR. ATI AiW 7500. Last new game I tried was Doom 3. Wouldn't even run, as you might imagine. My PC works well enough for the web, running my http and other servers. My emulators run just fine for what I do on it. My consoles run my current-gen games just fine.

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
Given that you can buy a DVD drive for less than $30 nowadays, I really do not see why every gamer would not have one. Games cost $40-$50 a pop, and most gamers probably buy at least 1 game a month. Spending $30 for a one time deal on a DVD drive is dirt cheap in comparison.
The only reason I can think of is that hardly any games require it and it would cost a whole game to upgrade unnecessarily. Is there an echo in here?
Old 03-08-06, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pinata242
The only reason I can think of is that hardly any games require it and it would cost a whole game to upgrade unnecessarily.

Right now, no, it is not necessary to own a DVD drive, but it will become necessary soon. Just as CD-ROM slowly took over, DVD will too. I predict that in the next 2-3 years, every PC game will be DVD only, so then it will be necessary to own a DVD drive.

That is unless they go with 10-CD games.

It will be funny in 10 years or so when we will be wondering why games are being released on 4 or 5 DVDs instead of 1 BluRay/HD-DVD/whatever.
Old 03-08-06, 03:53 PM
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I agree with that, eventually a higher capacity medium will take over.

But, until that time comes, I think we've answered the question as to why they don't right now
Old 03-08-06, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
No, in my experience, most serious gamers build their own PCs. It is cheaper plus you get exactly what you want.

Another thing, Dell, Gateway, and other PC companies usually do not put real video cards in their PCs. They use those Intel "Extreme" integrated chips. Serious PC gamers laugh at those. There is nothing extreme about them besides maybe their extreme suckage. If you really want to play PC games, especially modern PC games, you need a real video card, either a Geforce or Radeon.

Also, in the past, Dell and Gateway have only used Pentium processors. Pentiums are good for general office work, but Athlons are much better for gaming. I don't know if Dell and Gateway are using Athlons nowadays though because I haven't bothered to look up on it.



True, there are some gamers who have 3 year old PCs, but they will have to upgrade soon. I would like to see a 3 year old PC run the latest games like F.E.A.R. on anything but the lowest of the low settings. With the next-gen on the horizon, old PCs will not run these games at all. Oblivion definitely will not run on a 3 year old PC. The PC would probably explode in the attempt.

Given that you can buy a DVD drive for less than $30 nowadays, I really do not see why every gamer would not have one. Games cost $40-$50 a pop, and most gamers probably buy at least 1 game a month. Spending $30 for a one time deal on a DVD drive is dirt cheap in comparison.
Well, my point is pretty much that bringing in "serious" gamers into this particular discussion is pointless. Of course many people build their own PC's, and those who do naturally pick up a DVD burner in the process. I know i have

But no developer/publisher is going to cater solely to that market if they intend to be profitable because the audience who has low and mid range PC's currently is still incredibly high, and the possibility of those lacking a DVD drive is large enough that it isn't worth the publishing costs to print to sets of media and ask stores to stock two different versions.

Another case I can offer is that I used to work technical support for a video game company.... and i've seen quite a wide range of PC's attempting to run our game on 'less then optimal' specifications.
Old 03-10-06, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
True, there are some gamers who have 3 year old PCs, but they will have to upgrade soon.
not true my machine will be 3 years old in a couple months, but it was uber bad ass when i built it. i'm going to build another uber bad ass machine this comming fall because mine will be unable to run fsaa and af on the new new games like it does with now games like CoD2.

beside next gen consoles cost less than a good video card and everything comes on dvd there.
Old 03-10-06, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
not true my machine will be 3 years old in a couple months, but it was uber bad ass when i built it. i'm going to build another uber bad ass machine this comming fall because mine will be unable to run fsaa and af on the new new games like it does with now games like CoD2.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? You said that it is not true that it will be necessary to upgrade, but then you turn around and say that you are going to build another PC because your old PC is unable to play modern games.

It is kind of pointless to say that your old PC was uber bad ass when you built it, because all high end PCs are uber bad ass when they first came out. I remember when a Pentium 200 Mhz with 32 MB RAM was uber bad ass. 15 years ago, the SNES was uber bad ass. 10 years ago, the Playstation was uber bad ass. It doesn't take long to lose that uber bad assness though.

Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
beside next gen consoles cost less than a good video card and everything comes on dvd there.
That's true, but this thread is a discussion about why PC games do not come standard on DVD, not about consoles. Consoles are good for gamers on a budget or gamers who don't want the hassle of installing games and messing with constant upgrades and patches. I prefer the power and flexibility of PC gaming though. I am only a very casual console gamer, and I don't plan on buying a next gen console for 2-3 years at least.
Old 03-10-06, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
They probably want to get to the widest audience possible so they have them on CD's.
Agreed, but if that is true, how do we explain the fact that most new games won't run (well or at all) on older video cards? I don't understand how forcing people to buy a new video card or add ram to play a game doesn't hurt sales, but distributing a game on DVD would...
Old 03-10-06, 01:31 PM
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the fact of the matter is consoles (new gen) are good for gamers period, and it kills the biggest thing that is holding pc publishers from sending everything out on dvd it forces upgrade. now pc gamers or pc users etc don't upgrade all the time, and gamers or power users, speed freaks like myself go out of their way to have the fastest most up to date systems, but normal people don't and so you've got some publishers putting the games on both dvd and cd and others just on cd, because it lets them sell to a much wider group of people. the kind that are still running an nvidia5700 or ti4600 or ati9600xt etc. i mean those are all good cards, but one of my highspeed hard disk cost more than any of them when those cards were new outta the gate. thats the way it works. until a game company only does dvds or microsoft makes it so only new software can be installed off dvd drives its going to take a little longer for the general public to all have dvd drives. which is fine, its a lot the same as HDTVs and all the great people out there who will still refuse to get one at the cut off date.
Old 03-10-06, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BobDole42
Agreed, but if that is true, how do we explain the fact that most new games won't run (well or at all) on older video cards? I don't understand how forcing people to buy a new video card or add ram to play a game doesn't hurt sales, but distributing a game on DVD would...
Just because they won't run "well" doesn't mean they won't run at all. There are still quite a few new games that will run on older systems. I've seen plenty of people running World of Warcraft on GeForce 2 era cards and Pentium 3's. Granted WoW doesn't have the steepest requirements, but you get the idea.

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