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The Demise of Sony

Old 11-16-05, 08:44 AM
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The Demise of Sony

Downfall of Sony

that was a solid read. Lots of good points. Especially about Nintendo and co-existing as a second system. They have the franchises to back that up, a price advantage, and the fact that despite being third, they still make money on each system sold, which can't be said of the other companies.

The only thing I disagree about is the DS. For that system to be successful Nintendo would have to drop the GBA. I doubt it will get any more innovative than it already is. Pretty much D.O.A. At least they tried something different. As for the comparison of Apple competing with PSP, not so sure about that one either.

I'm surprised the article didn't mention Blu-ray or the supposed copywrite issue they are developing for it. That to me is a bigger flaw than anything the article mentions.
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Old 11-16-05, 09:18 AM
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Well, first off Sony has not announced there online plan yet, but this article is reporting that they have. Second, Ipod Video competes less with PSP than was first speculated due to its small screen and lack of disc media (according to reviews). Third, no mention on how including a Blu-Ray player with PS3 will support their film studio and increase sales for their electronics unit.

This article is very Nintendo Biased and I have read more interesting analysis in blogs - which doesn't say much about this author.
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Old 11-16-05, 09:43 AM
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Sure it is biased, but it still has some solid points.
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Old 11-16-05, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Sure it is biased, but it still has some solid points.
Such as?
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Old 11-16-05, 10:12 AM
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IMO, the only thing that would really hurt the PS3 is if it comes out with a high price tag. Anyone remember the $700 3DO failure? Metal Gear Solid 4 is supposedly due out late 2006/early 2007, and that game alone will sell a lot of PS3s.
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Old 11-16-05, 10:19 AM
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The DS has many things going for it that will keep it around for years to come. The GBA will be around for a couple more years (or the new micro will), but expect it to go away at some point.

But remember, the GBA can play the old GB & GBC games while the DS cannot. The DS has the wireless multiplayer WI-FI thing starting up this fall so we'll see how it goes. I'd love you play animal crossing, mario kart, and more online (for free).
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Old 11-16-05, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Downfall of Sony

The only thing I disagree about is the DS. For that system to be successful Nintendo would have to drop the GBA. I doubt it will get any more innovative than it already is. Pretty much D.O.A. At least they tried something different. As for the comparison of Apple competing with PSP, not so sure about that one either.

Now that is funny. The DS DOA? Right. Why would they have to drop the GBA? The DS can play GBA games as well as the fact that they are both still selling very well. That coupled what I think is the best lineup of any system this holiday and the DS is far from DOA.
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Old 11-16-05, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tanman
Now that is funny. The DS DOA? Right. Why would they have to drop the GBA? The DS can play GBA games as well as the fact that they are both still selling very well. That coupled what I think is the best lineup of any system this holiday and the DS is far from DOA.
Yeah, I thought the DS would kind of die off, and surprisingly it's got a great lineup that appeals to all kinds of gamers. I don't think it's in trouble at all...


At first I thought this was an article about the overall Sony corporation. Since the gaming division is one of the bright spots in the company, I"m sure they will put all their resources behind it to make it successful...
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Old 11-16-05, 02:07 PM
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An interesting article, but there are several things that strike me as off-base.

With a much greater battery life and storage capacity, the iPod offers features that compete with Sony's PSP, but offers no game functions.
Not to discount the iPod as a competitor to the PSP, but from what I've heard the greater battery life does not apply to video. Which is frankly the sticking point in considering these to be competing devices, as 1. not even a die hard PSP fan would claim the PSP could touch the iPod as an MP3 player and 2. the iPod doesn't play games or have a web browser (that I'm aware of).

Nintendo hopes that people will purchase the Revolution in addition to either the PS3 or the Xbox 360, effectively making them no longer competitors with either game system. The goal is not to out perform the other systems, but to be different enough that the competition does not exist.

The traditional home console market becomes a battle between Microsoft and Sony.
Nice idea in theory, but they will still be competing for gamers' money. Differentiation is fine, but competition isn't ONLY about performance. Not everyone has a bottomless bank account, especially the kids, teenagers, and college students that make up a large section of the gaming public.

Halo 3, combined with the price reduction, effectively undercuts the momentum of the PS3 launch.
Not everyone cares about Halo 3, and a large pecentage of the Halo 3 fans will already own a 360 by this point (which may cut into PS3's base but won't affect its 'momentum').

Continued innovation on Nintendo DS titles produce a game system that does not become out-of-date as quickly as the PSP, whose features face competition from a growing number of products from companies outside the video game industry; items such as cell phones begin playing movies and music.
The core argument here seems to be that game innovation by Nintendo will make the system better than the PSP, because while other items might cancel out PSP's multimedia capabilities, DS lacks them entirely (without the purchase of bulky add-on items.) And frankly, I don't think you can compare watching a movie download on a cell phone to a UMD on a PSP.
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Old 11-16-05, 02:14 PM
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Have to agree about the DS. Best game line up this year by far. In fact, I've been playing it so much I've been thinking of dumping off my PS2 and maybe even my X-box without finishing the handful of unplayed games on them.

I'm lucky to game an hour or two a week these days and can't even keep up with the DS games, much less trying to stay up on them and the GC/PS2/Xbox games.
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Old 11-16-05, 02:32 PM
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really? I thought the writing was on the wall for the DS. It has little to no buzz. Sony owns that department. I don't have either, so as an outsider looking in that was the way I perceived it.

As for the Sony article, definitely changes things when you see it is written by someone who writes Nintendo columns. Makes objectivity hard. But that doesn't mean the whole article is bullshit. Some of the plack of a system selling franchise, a rumored outrageous price point, competition in Halo 3, complexity to program for and Nintendo simply trying to be the second console of choice at a much cheaper price are all interesting points to me. Also sluggish electronics sales is interesting although, both MS & Sony are going to dump as much money as it takes into the ring.

To me, like I said above, the most interesting things weren't even touched upon. Blu-ray and the copyright restrictions they are looking to implement. Especially after the recent rootkit CD issue. Blu-ray can be seen as a positive (new drive for a new technology that helps both arms of their company, but it could still easily end up the loser in which gamers will be paying a lot extra for a betamax drive.

To me, I think Sony IS on the path to an implosion of N64 proportions. It would take a serious misstep like Nintendo did for someone else to take the helm from Sony, and I think it is going to happen this generation.
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Old 11-16-05, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
As for the Sony article, definitely changes things when you see it is written by someone who writes Nintendo columns. Makes objectivity hard. But that doesn't mean the whole article is bullshit. Some of the plack of a system selling franchise, a rumored outrageous price point, competition in Halo 3, complexity to program for and Nintendo simply trying to be the second console of choice at a much cheaper price are all interesting points to me. Also sluggish electronics sales is interesting although, both MS & Sony are going to dump as much money as it takes into the ring.

To me, like I said above, the most interesting things weren't even touched upon. Blu-ray and the copyright restrictions they are looking to implement. Especially after the recent rootkit CD issue. Blu-ray can be seen as a positive (new drive for a new technology that helps both arms of their company, but it could still easily end up the loser in which gamers will be paying a lot extra for a betamax drive.
No system selling franchise? The GTA series, despite all the crying about it, will continue to be a system seller. Halo is not the be-all-end-all series of games, and the majority of people buying systems out there couldn't care less about FPS (it's true...). And if anything, HD-DVD will be the one going the way of Beta, not blu-ray, if early indications are at all true (see the thread in the DVD Talk forum). Additionally, people also were saying that the PS2's "complexity to program" was going to hurt it. Doesn't seem to have bruised it. As for the price point, that's all it is. Rumors. We'll wait to see. If they keep it at the $399 the XBox 360 is opening at (I don't count the core system), it'll work. $499 might be pushing it, but it'll still get tons of sales. $599 and you might be right, but it'll still be a well-sold machine.

Besides, even if Blu-Ray did "lose", who cares? Sony wouldn't stop making games based on the Blu-Ray format. The only losing part would be losing the HD movie function, and the number of US consumers who buy it for that will be about the same as the number who buy the PS2 for its' DVD player function (i.e., not many).

And you're also discounting the throngs and throngs (and there are throngs) of Sony fanboys who are going to buy the PS3 come hell or high water.

(and Nintendo's only mixup during that generation was killing their association with Sony and allowing Sony to make the Playstation on its own. The N64 was a good piece of hardware, they just let the better one walk away)
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Old 11-16-05, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
really? I thought the writing was on the wall for the DS. It has little to no buzz. Sony owns that department. I don't have either, so as an outsider looking in that was the way I perceived it.
There's been a decent amount of buzz with Nintendogs, Castlevania, Mario Kart, the free online gaming, fresh titles like Trauma Center and Phoenix Wright etc.

Certainly more buzz than the PSP is getting. Most seem to be dissappointed with the lack of quality PSP titles.

The GBA dominates the portable market, and will continue to do so for a while. The DS and PSP will run neck in neck. The PSP may sell more units, but many will be bought as media players rather than gaming devices, so I expect the to DS games to continue to top the PSP games in sales.
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Old 11-16-05, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
(and Nintendo's only mixup during that generation was killing their association with Sony and allowing Sony to make the Playstation on its own. The N64 was a good piece of hardware, they just let the better one walk away)
Well, they also maintained the whole proprietary cartridge thing, which pretty much killed off 3rd party support as they didn't recognize early enough that they no longer had the stranglehold on the market that they once had. I think that also contributed to their downfall. After all, it's not like the Sony in-house franchises are what made the PS1 unbeatable, it was incredible third party games. Ticking off square also wasn't a good move. (for the PS2, Sony's done a great job in making excellent 1st party games, though, sports games excluded)

The main difference between GTA and Halo is that GTA is a third party company that releases it's games on other platforms (though it does give Sony first dibs). So if they and other companies like Konami jump ship like Square did, that could be disastrous for Sony. But I agree that the Halo audience, while huge in America, has a limited scope (as does GTA to a lesser extent, for that matter). It's the breadth and buzz of games that usually win these wars.

So the two things Sony can do to screw things up are:
1) release at a ridiculously high pricepoint
2) tick off or otherwise lose 3rd party support

Even though the Xbox 360 has a bit more Japanese support this time around, that's still a huge gap to fill, and I have my doubts that Microsoft will be able to make up that ground.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Most seem to be dissappointed with the lack of quality PSP titles.
I did this when the PSP first launched, so I'll do it again to prove a point.

From IGN 9/1/05 to Current:

DS Titles
7.0-7.9: 1
8.0-8.9: 6
9.0-9.9: 3

Total: 10

5.0 or less: 4

PSP Titles
7.0-7.9: 11
8.0-8.9: 7
9.0-9.9: 1

Total: 19

5.0 or less: 1

Its fun to continually say that PSP has been disappointing players with its lack of quality titles, but when you can never back it up with facts, I'm not sure why you keep saying it. Since 9/1 (which I picked because it is the end of the summer gaming lapse), the PSP has had more games released for it, more quality (7.0+) games released for it, and less crap games (5.0-) released for it than the DS over the same time period.

I don't were you are getting this "lack of quality PSP titles" from, but it sure isn't from the gaming media.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
I did this when the PSP first launched, so I'll do it again to prove a point.

From IGN 9/1/05 to Current:

DS Titles
7.0-7.9: 1
8.0-8.9: 6
9.0-9.9: 3

Total: 10

5.0 or less: 4

PSP Titles
7.0-7.9: 11
8.0-8.9: 7
9.0-9.9: 1

Total: 19

5.0 or less: 1

Its fun to continually say that PSP has been disappointing players with its lack of quality titles, but when you can never back it up with facts, I'm not sure why you keep saying it. Since 9/1 (which I picked because it is the end of the summer gaming lapse), the PSP has had more games released for it, more quality (7.0+) games released for it, and less crap games (5.0-) released for it than the DS over the same time period.

I don't were you are getting this "lack of quality PSP titles" from, but it sure isn't from the gaming media.
"Quality titles" is an opinion. You cannot ask for factual informations based on opinions. Your "facts" are opinions of the game reviewers that are playing the games. Not quite facts are they?

Look, I have heard from people that own the PSP and rumblings on this board over and over again that if there wasn't emulation on the PSP, it would have/would be collecting dust. Is that a fact? No, but I am not claiming it as a fact either.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
I did this when the PSP first launched, so I'll do it again to prove a point.

From IGN 9/1/05 to Current:

DS Titles
7.0-7.9: 1
8.0-8.9: 6
9.0-9.9: 3

Total: 10

5.0 or less: 4

PSP Titles
7.0-7.9: 11
8.0-8.9: 7
9.0-9.9: 1

Total: 19

5.0 or less: 1

Its fun to continually say that PSP has been disappointing players with its lack of quality titles, but when you can never back it up with facts, I'm not sure why you keep saying it. Since 9/1 (which I picked because it is the end of the summer gaming lapse), the PSP has had more games released for it, more quality (7.0+) games released for it, and less crap games (5.0-) released for it than the DS over the same time period.

I don't were you are getting this "lack of quality PSP titles" from, but it sure isn't from the gaming media.
I've owned a PSP since launch day...there is definitely a lack of quality titles for it. If you look at your rating examples, 9 out of the 10 DS games received an 8 or higher where only 8 out of the 19 PSP got an 8 or higher. Sounds to me like DS does have more quality titles compared to the total number released.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gimmepilotwings
"Quality titles" is an opinion. You cannot ask for factual informations based on opinions. Your "facts" are opinions of the game reviewers that are playing the games. Not quite facts are they?

Look, I have heard from people that own the PSP and rumblings on this board over and over again that if there wasn't emulation on the PSP, it would have/would be collecting dust. Is that a fact? No, but I am not claiming it as a fact either.
Exactly. I was posting on my opinion, people I know's opinions and rumblings here and on other message boards.

Reviewers give games high scores if they're good, even if they're the same old crap with a fresh coat of paint. Not everyone wants to play that. Especially on a portable.

The PSP just offers lesser looking versions of console games for the most part. Why would I want to play them instead of just sitting down and playing the console games on my home theater?

I see the appeal for people who game on the go, but not for those of us buying a portable just to get some different games and still playing 99.9% of the time at home on the couch.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:38 PM
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And if you look on Gameranking, for the entire life of the system:

9+
PSP: 2
DS: 3

8-8.9
PSP: 16
DS: 16

7-7.9
PSP: 30
DS: 24

Where am I supposed to see the huge difference in quality titles between the two systems?
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Old 11-16-05, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
The only thing I disagree about is the DS. For that system to be successful Nintendo would have to drop the GBA. I doubt it will get any more innovative than it already is. Pretty much D.O.A. At least they tried something different.
I'm gonna have to agree with the article here and diagree with you.

I have both a PSP and a DS - I haven't touched the PSP in weeks, and there's really nothing on the horizon either. Whereas I play my DS almost every day, and there's a lot of cool stuff right around the corner.

I think I'll be selling my PSP to fund a 360 - the games on the PSP are way too similar to stuff I can play on my TV - the DS really sets it self apart on that front. Add to that the exclusive Nintendo games, and the DS is anything but D.O.A. - the Mario Kart that just came out for the DS is already setting sales records.

Also, a few friends of mine who own PSPs sort of regret buying it - where as all the DS owners I know are satisfied customers.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Exactly. I was posting on my opinion, people I know's opinions and rumblings here and on other message boards.
Oh. I see. You meant to say "Me and my friends don't like the type of games on the PSP." instead of saying "Most seem to be dissappointed with the lack of quality PSP titles." Please refrain from bashing a portable when you really only meant to voice you personal opinion. It helps keep these boards a happy place.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by slop101
I have both a PSP and a DS - I haven't touched the PSP in weeks, and there's really nothing on the horizon either. Whereas I play my DS almost every day, and there's a lot of cool stuff right around the corner.

Also, a few friends of mine who own PSPs sort of regret buying it - where as all the DS owners I know are satisfied customers.
Exactly the type of comments I'm refering to.

The PSP games may be getting decent reviews, but there's not much buzz about them from actual, regular gamers. And I see a lot more people complaining about the games than raving about them.

I've honestly not seen anyone rave about its game lineup that wasn't clearly a sony fanboy, where as I've seen more than just Nintendo fanboys raving about the DS after giving it a shot. But of course that's just anecdotal, but it's been fairly convincing for me.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Oh. I see. You meant to say "Me and my friends don't like the type of games on the PSP." instead of saying "Most seem to be dissappointed with the lack of quality PSP titles." Please refrain from bashing a portable when you really only meant to voice you personal opinion. It helps keep these boards a happy place.
See above post. Many people are complaining about the lack of quality (in their opinion) titles. I wasn't stating just my opinion, but the general, non-sony fanboy buzz.

What would make the boards a happy place is if people like you that do nothing but advocate one system with borderline spam, and get all pissy when someone posts something negative about it, just left and went to a console specific forum.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:52 PM
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Article is ok. A few points:

1. Not sure what thay guy is smoking but the ipod video and the PSP are not in competition. One is a gaming machine that plays movies. The other is an mp3 player that plays videos. The video part is not the primary objective of either device.

2. The article has an excellent point regarding Sony fighting on 3 seperate fronts, against competitors who are specialized. Sony v Apple in mp3 players. Sony v Micorsoft in game consoles. Sony v Nintendo in handheld gaming. That costs a lot money and resources. Sony is already getting its ass handed to it on the mp3 player front and they are giving Microsoft a 1 year head start in the gaming console arena. Who in their right mind gives Microsoft of a head start in anything?!?!

3. Another good point is that a lot of households won't be buying 2 major game consoles. How many kids will be screaming for the XBOX 360 this winter and how many parents will be reminding those kids of that purchase when the kids start screaming about the PS3 next winter? At the $400+ price point, without games, parents really need to make a serious decision about which one to get and at this point, there is only one name on the ballot.

Last edited by pdutta2000; 11-16-05 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 11-16-05, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Exactly the type of comments I'm refering to.

The PSP games may be getting decent reviews, but there's not much buzz about them from actual, regular gamers. And I see a lot more people complaining about the games than raving about them.

I've honestly not seen anyone rave about its game lineup that wasn't clearly a sony fanboy, where as I've seen more than just Nintendo fanboys raving about the DS after giving it a shot. But of course that's just anecdotal, but it's been fairly convincing for me.
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
See above post. Many people are complaining about the lack of quality (in their opinion) titles. I wasn't stating just my opinion, but the general, non-sony fanboy buzz.

What would make the boards a happy place is if people like you that do nothing but advocate one system with borderline spam, and get all pissy when someone posts something negative about it, just left and went to a console specific forum.
Thanks for calling me a fanboy twice. Makes it easier to report when there are repeat instances. I'm done here.
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