fumanstan

I've found that despite working over 40 hours a week (a lot of 10 hour days and weekends lately) getting in an hour or two of WoW have worked out just fine. Of course, it's also easy to stay up later then you expected and wake up rather weary before work

Michael Ballack

I never got into mmorpgs until I played Star Wars galaxies. I'll never forget the learning experience I had and the friends I made online. There was many good times like becoming a master in a profession or being part of a good group and bad times like my guild exploding because of egos or seeing friends quit, but I had a great time. Late this summer I had to quit because I lost my job. It was real hard. It was a part of my life for over a year. I've been reading all the discussions about wow and everquest 2, and I've decided to stay away from mmorpgs. I have too much of an addicting personality. Sure you can still have fun without being a hardcore grinder, but to really excel in most mmorpgs, you have to be on for hours and hours. Maybe one day I'll play a mmorpg again, but it's too overwhelming the amount of things to do and time to spend. I'm just sticking to games that have an ending like KOTR. With games like KOTR, you know exactly how long you will be playing for(rougly 40 hours). In the meantime I'll contine to track the progress of mmorpgs. The sky is the limit with them. One day you'll probablly be able to jack in to them like in The Matrix. Gotta love technology.

DaveNinja

WoW doesnt take up too much time. I've only had it half a week and so far have a level 10 and a level 5 or 6. This is from playing an hour here and there between work, wife, 2 year old, helping friends fix up their house and taking a cat to the vet.

CaptainMarvel

I always avoided MMORPGs due to the time sink and money involved, but I've been playing City of Heroes since lauch... I'm not sure if it counts as a MMORPG or not, but I enjoy it. I'd enjoy it a heckuva lot more if the devs wouldn't keep nerfing left and right, but I guess that's to be expected in the MM genre.

I actually find it's cheaper to subscribe to a MMG than it is otherwise... I haven't bought hardly any other games since I started playing (and that includes things like HL2, Halo 2, KOTR 2, GTA: San Andreas, etc).

I noticed a definite drop in the number of players right around the time WoW came out.

Maxflier

City of Heroes is just as much an RPG as any of the other ones mentioned.

V-ism

I'm a FFXI player for some time now. Slowing down a bit because of console games I want to play. I tried WoW during beta, and it just didn't click to me. Maybe I didn't give it enough time, but I just thought it was too simplistic and I disliked the art style. I know alot of people like it, but I can't stand how I watch a CG intro of it and see these incredibly detailed characters and worlds, and then log in with these blocky buildings and characters. Of course graphics don't make the game. The game just bored me quicker than other mmorpgs. It seemed like there were only 3 quest types? And that got boring quick. Sometimes I like long elaborate quests with a nice backstory to why you have to do it. Rather than "give me this and I'll give u this". Perhaps that's why so many people like WoW, it's designed more like an action game than a rpg.

I'll admit FFXI is not the greatest. I can choose a dozen things that are wrong with it. But it's the little things that got me more interested in it than the others. I have played EQ, DAoC, RO, Earth and Beyond, and a few betas of other games. But FFXI is the one I connect with. It just has that charm. The players are the nicest I've played with than in any other. The graphics are a little dated, but the character design overall is still good. EQ2 may have incredible detail, textures, and crisp graphics, I still think the ffxi characters look cooler. Maybe I just prefer the japanese character style. And once you plug in a PS2 styled controller to the PC, the controls come very natural. And it has nice events. I was overjoyed when my Tarutaru received a santa hat for xmas ^^.

Setzer

If FFXI had a better UI, preferably one that the player could customize, and if it wasn't such a grind when it came to leveling, I'd still be playing. Nothing like being forced to group in order to progress further in the game and on top of that having to make sure your group consisted of players that were no more than 1 level above/below everyone else that way you gained xp efficiently. I was able to solo as a Red Mage until 10 but it was a pain in the ass even to get that far. Never forget it...I killed one mob to reach level 7, sat my character down to rest and picked up aggro from behind. I didn't even have time to run before I died and leveled down to 6. What a joke. I'm sure if one has lots of time to invest in a game like FFXI it probably can be very rewarding but it's definitely not a game for me. Then again I haven't played in about a year so and things may have changed with patches....but I seriously doubt it.

young

very interesting; i think WoW looks so much better than FFXI in terms of graphics. not to mention the near seamless traveling from zone to zone.

i look at FFXI characters, buildings, etc. and they looks very dated to me. just my opinion on those.

also, i really enjoy the quests; i didn't really think about the basic structure of them, but i guess you are right that there are 3 types. some are real grinds (although, maybe not like FFXI)... especially if you like to sort of solo, like myself.

i do agree that WoW being more of an "action" rpg - and i like that.

but, if you like FFXI more, that's all that matters.

Groucho

I'm not sure what happened with City of Heroes. When it came out there was all this hoopla, and then...nothing. Guess the higher-profile games pushed it back under the radar.

I'd still like to try it myself...waiting for a free trial.

I've heard rumors that City of villains will actually be a stand-alone game instead of just an expansion pack? Meaning you won't have to own Heroes to play it? Any truth to that?

CaptainMarvel

Three things happened to CoH:

1) A series of really good games came out, which distracted people: San Andreas, Halo 2, World of Warcraft, etc. all came out within a short timespan.

2) The initial surge in subscribers died down, which as I understand it happens with nearly any game. Servers dropped down to medium load after the first two.

3) At the same time, the Developers unleashed the nerf bat like crazy and made some wildly unpopular decisions. They made tweak after tweak, weakening some powers that worked too well (sometimes justified, sometimes not) while ignoring powers that were broken (like Dark Armor). Some of their changes made teaming unprofitable (experience wise), so you saw massive decreases in the amount of voluntarily people looking for teams when they otherwise would have wanted to. At the same time, they added lots of missions where you have no choice BUT to group (disable 3 things simultaneously, beat an Archvillain, etc) so you have people who would like to solo now forced to group in order to advance in their own missions.

Other decisions just seemed boneheaded. As an example of the problem, fans told them that tankers weren't fun to play because they did piddly damage; the Devs announced they were going to up tanker damage (and they did)... but they are also making changes to raise some enemy hitpoints and make the tankers run more toggles (which eat up endurance, which will mean they either have to attack less [less damage] or slot endurance reducers in their attacks [instead of slotting damage enhancements, so again less damage])... this means the Devs took one step forward and two back. They target what's popular to change, and sometimes "fix" it in silly ways instead of making simple changes.

They've also become less responsive to the fans; if you check out the Dev tracker on the message board, the number of developer responses has decreased (and the number of developer responses offering anything of substance has plummeted). I read the MUD Whimping Guide a few months ago, and it's pretty scary seeing parallels between the author's hypothetical and the actual gameplay. They've started herding everything into "official" threads, which will shoot up to 100s of pages without any response from the devs.

At this point, I still enjoy the game, but it's despite the developers, and I'm just hanging on until they make a change that pushes me over the limit.

As far as City of Villains, I don't know if definite plans have been announced. The last I read, they were going to do this:

1) If you have City of Heroes, you don't need City of Villains (but you won't be able to access any villain content).

2) If you don't have City of Heroes, you can just buy City of Villains (but you won't be able to access any hero content).

3) If you have both, you pay one subscription fee and can access both content. City of Villains would essentially act as a add-on pack then.

I hope they stick with that plan.

Bandoman

Just recently started City of Heores, my first MMORPG. I'm really enjoying it, but it does seem to take some time to level up. I'm not thrilled with the necessity of teaming up to accomplish missions. It's fun when you get cooperative people online, but just as often I get blown off because I'm not advanced enough.

Groucho

Interesting write-up on CoH, CaptainMarvel.

I think there are two things that can kill a game like this very quickly:

1. When the devs don't listen enough to the players.

or

2. When the devs listen to the players too much.

CaptainMarvel

I agree with both of those. I tend to think they should err in favor of benefitting the players when there's a question about which choice to take. We're all playing the game for fun, not to "work."

CaptainMarvel

What are you playing? Which archetype and primary/secondary? Some archetypes are harder than others, and some builds within those archetypes are also harder to play. A Regen scrapper is one of the best beginner builds, but a Super Reflexes scrapper is really hard to play (and I don't see how anybody plays one without getting Stamina from the power pools). My very first character (long since deleted) was a SR scrapper, and I almost quit playing because I hated it so much.

I think the Devs have made the mistake of balancing the game for the ideal character builds, which makes the game harder for the casual player. Sadly, you just won't find many advanced players who don't pick Fitness/Stamina and Superspeed/Hasten, but not everybody does. I think some of the powers, however, are balanced with those in mind.

They also don't release any power numbers, which leaves it up to the fans to figure out how much damage each attack does. Nobody realizes, looking at the power descriptions, that Jump Kick sucks or that Flurry is a bad attack because they have really long animation times for the damage they deal. Nobody realizes, starting out, that slotting Brawl is the absolute worst thing you can do (other than slotting sprint/rest).

In all fairness, teaming up isn't 100% necessary for most things. A few missions will require you to do it (but they'll usually be marked). Task Forces, by their nature, require it. I can see them progressing to forced grouping in the future, but right now it's not too bad... like I said, I'm just afraid of what the future holds for it.

Bandoman

I'm a natural tanker. I have punch/jab, which are pretty powerful. I also have taunt, which I really like because it allows me to separate large groups into smaller groups and defeat them in turn.

CaptainMarvel

That's a good tactic, and it's called "pulling" because you pull enemies from a larger herd.

I guess by your attack powers you're */Super Strength tanker (Super Strength is your secondary). Is your primary Invulnerable? That's probably the strongest tanker primary right now, with Fire being a second. Virtually nobody uses Stone or Ice tanks anymore. I also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but they're changing taunt so it will affect multiple enemies within the radius of your target, so it's not going to be a good tool for what you used it for. That's actually a change that players requested, because tanks need to draw the enemies attention (called "aggro") so other weaker players on the team don't get killed. Tanks are in need of a lot of work; according to the lead Dev, fixing tanks is their top priority right now.

That explains why leveling is so slow for you right now... Tanks are notoriously hard to level early on. They don't have the damage capabilities to put down enemies at an early level, and their defenses aren't built up enough to protect them enough from damage. Mid-game (20-40) tanks are almost a necessity for large groups... it's almost suicide to try an 8 person mission without a tank, because there will be tons of bosses inside.

I tried a Inv/SS tanker during football season (I made him look like a football player with an Auburn Tiger theme), and it drove me nuts... I could only get him up to 10 before I gave up after I died two or three times trying to complete the same mission. I then rolled a Broadsword/Invulnerable scrapper and she plowed through the same mission without difficulty and leveled her up to 12 in half the time (maybe 2 days?). I think when most people think of superheroes, they really are thinking of scrappers. You might want to give one a shot... maybe a */Invulnerable or a */Regen. Katana/Regeneration or Martial Arts/Regeneration are probably two of the best you could pick right now. If you want to solo, you really can't do much better than a regen scrapper right now.

Edited to remove redundant redundancy.

Bandoman

Cool. Thanks, Capt. Marvel.

Setzer

Developer & "Nerfing" issues aside, the one thing that killed CoH for me was its lack of content. Other than leveling your Hero, gaining new powers, doing missions and finding enhancements, what else was there? There was no crafting, no equipable items, and no PvP. I got as far as level 14 with my Elec/Elec Blaster before I got bored and cancelled. Once you reached level cap what was there to look forward to? Nothing really other than making another Hero. Yah, it was a blast to play the first couple weeks but doing nothing but mission after mission after mission the excitement wore off. I had 4 other friends that signed up the same time I did and we all ended up quitting after our first month because of the same reasons. I know changes were made since release, like the addition of capes and new areas and missions to do but this isn't enough for me to re-activate my account.

CaptainMarvel

I can totally understand quitting because you want crafting, equipable items, pvp etc.... this game totally lacks those things. I only picked up this game because of a LACK of those things, which may be while I'm still playing. The idea of crafting, camping a spot to get a +1 Sword of Smiting, or getting ganked by a higher level player always kept me away from playing other MMORPGs.

I don't think the game lacks content though... I've invested a helluva lot of time into the game, and I haven't seen anywhere close to all the content available. Some of the trials have been my most memorable experiences in all of gaming... I think the game just lacked the content you wanted, not content in general.

For anybody who still has an account, go to the CoH boards and search for Striga Island. It's one of the new levels being offered in the game, and it looks spectacular. Think Cobra Island from GI Joe.

PixyJunket

I have a question. Traditionally, when one of these games has an open beta, do all the characters have to start over when they go live?

Groucho

Usually, but not always. In terms of recent games, I believe both Lineage 2 and City of Heroes allowed characters to carry forward (somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this).

CaptainMarvel

City of Heroes didn't. Everybody started over again. I don't know if they could keep the same character names, but they sure didn't keep their levels/powers. I don't know about Lineage 2.

It may have seemed like some people kept the levels in CoH, because some people exploited their way up to the 40s within a matter of days (using Fire tanks/superspeed/etc).

Groucho

I guess I was misinformed. When World of Warcraft went live there were cries of "COH let me keep my character, why not WOW?!? OMG OMG OMG!!!"

CaptainMarvel

Maybe the 3 day head start given to people who pre-ordered gave them that impression? I don't know why they thought that.

I'm pretty sure there are cries of outrage whenever a game developer does anything.

Groucho

Found this interesting MMORPG-related article:

Why Virtual Worlds are Designed By Newbies

The basic premise is that for a MMORPG to succeed, it needs a continual influx of new players (newbies). Because of that, the will of the newbie ends up controlling the design of the game.

It's a good read, even if I don't agree with everything the author says.