Seeing how Nintendo has seen fit to integreate two wireless protocols (802.11 and some proprietary Bluetooth-type thing) in the DS, I find it difficult to imagine they won't be going online in the next generation in at least some form. From a purely financial perspective, holding off isn't actually a dumb move at all; Live is basically like the Xbox hardware itself in that it's a loss-leader for MS -- i.e. something that loses money in its own right but theoretically makes up for it elsewhere, namely in software sales. But that's not really a measurable thing -- that list of Live-enabled game sales is not particularly helpful because a) it includes games with no actual online play (like KOTOR) and b) there's no indication whatsoever of how many people actually took Live capability into account when making their decision to buy the game(s). In any event the "make up for it with the software sales" plan doesn't seem to be panning out very well, in light of the profits (or lack thereof) the entertainment division has been posting.

The issue, as jeffdsmith basically pointed out, is one of perception; not having any open short-term committment to online (it's pretty obvious Nintendo isn't going to be jumping online in this generation, at least) hurts their image among the (at the moment) relatively small core of console gamers that do go online. I think Nintendo should've at least gone with a sort of loose, decentralized online model a la Sony; it wouldn't have made them money, but it wouldn't cost them much either (certainly Sony's online losses aren't even in the same ballpark as Microsoft's) and it definitely wouldn't have alienated anyone. But frankly online has been one of the least of their problems for the Cube, the third-party situation needs to be sorted out first (online is useless if nobody wants to support your system anyway).

Frankly I wouldn't be shocked if the PS3 has a built-in modem. Particularly if, as rumored, it doesn't come out until 2007.

PS3 will come with a NIC built-in. Xbox and PS2 until recently have always been about the same price, so I don't know what you're talking about. I don't feel forced to buy anything - if I want to buy an Xbox2 and it comes with a compartment to hold lipstick - I don't feel forced to buy the lipstick compartment... it's just an extra feature I won't use. NIC cards cost like 3 bucks tops to include for MS... get over it. It's the same with the built-in hard drive... sure, I am "forced" to buy it or whatever according to you, but it's better than having to be "forced" to buy a memory card if I want to save my game. I see it as PS2 owners are being "forced" to buy a network kit if they want to play online.

Anyway - I just think it's funny how people still try to maintain that online gaming is a non-issue... snubbing a million people (xbox) and probably around 2-3 million people (ps2) as if their dollars don't matter. Online gaming for the PC is profitable in multiple ways... it's only a matter of time until consoles get there. I mean, some of the most popular online PC games didn't even sell a million copies. Some of the most popular online PC games are FREE! and still don't have a million users. MS charges 50 bucks a year and games are 50 bucks each and they still get a million subscribers in under 2 years. I mean, does everyone that owns an Xbox have to subscribe to Live in order for some of you to admit that it's a big deal?

Sure it's not profitable for MS right now, but those who make Live enabled games can rake it in... Anyhow, I don't see how MS spent a billion dollars on Live - that would have to include advertising costs and account for every country.

As for Nintendo - I don't know how their online plan is, but they have 1 game available for it? I assume they haven't spent any money setting up a network for one game, so why couldn't they just release some more online capable games? Would it really hurt them to just take some games in production and add some online component to it? It wouldn't take much to go from System Link to Online... probably another 3 - 6 months development time.


You can play Halo online for free - without Live. Same with Tony Hawk 3 or 4 and a bunch of other games.

Yes, but by that standard Nintendo is already "online."

I think by 2006 when these console are rumored to be out online will be much more of a factor. I honestly know very few people that play games online and even fewer that will pay extra for it now, but slowly that is changing and Xbox Live is even starting to interest me just for the content downloads alone. I can see Nintendo's reasoning for skipping it this generation, but not next time out. Since Microsoft and Sony are losing all this money building up online exceptance this generation Nintendo would be foolish not to take advantage of it next generation. They need their next console to be cutting edge. Just the idea that its not going to have online abilities leads people back towards that "Nintendo is just for little kids" stereotype.

If Nintendo refuses to learn from their mistakes with the GameCube then they are a foolish company that deserves to be out of the hardware business. I actually hope the rumors of them joining forces with Microsoft next generation are true. They are the best game publisher in the world, but some of the hardware ideas like the memory card fiasco with the Cube that killed Sports games on the system, their focusing so much on GBA linking when so few games have actually used it properly, and that gimmicky DS touch screen nonsense lead me to believe the hardware end of the business is passing them by.

What I like about online gaming is I can play someone else besides the CPU. If your friends or brother/sister aren't around, playing someone online is a perfect solution. BTW, Xbox Live works very very well.

I guess if Nintendo wanted to get a few more thousand sales and pay a Billion for them then they could offer online play this generation.

I think they were smart to wait till next generation. Let MS lose all that extra money and still end up in third place.

I expect that Nintendo will have online play of some sort next generation although if they do not I will still buy one if the games are good. I can care less about online play if the games are good.

I don't think I've been suggesting that Nintendo was making a huge mistake skipping the online support for the Gamecube, but this article is about the future and it sounds like they're planning to skip it next generation as well... console online gaming is growing fast and their typical 'wait and see' attitude is (IMO) a mistake.

I wasn't aware of this - what games can you play online with the Gamecube this way? Got a list?


Darkside - I agree with alot of what you're saying... I'm gonna go check outside to see if it's raining frogs. :D

If by "this way" you're talking about tunnelling (and I'm assuming you are, since I know of no other way to play Halo online on the Xbox), any Gamecube game that supports the system link mode via the network adapter. I don't have a list, off the top of my head I can think of Double Dash and Kirby's Air Ride. That might be it, actually -- I'm not sure.

Never heard of those games... I guess it's 'tunneling' - all I know is you install ASE or Gamespy Arcade on your PC and find people playing a game - a click or two and you're online playing Halo against 12 other people (more if you got friends with you). Here's an list of some games supported by "tunneling" - alot of them are already Live enabled, but the cool thing is you can play all of these without spending the 50 bucks a year if that's a big deal. ;)

Amped 2
Brute Force
Crimson Skies
Deathrow
Ghost Recon
Ghost Recon: Island Thunder
Halo
Inside Pitch 2003
MechAssault
Midnight Club 2
Midtown Madness 3
MotoGP
MotoGP 2
NASCAR Heat 2002
NFL Fever 2003
NFL Fever 2004
Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
Soldier of Fortune II
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
Tides of War
TimeSplitters2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Tony Hawk's Underground
TopSpin
Unreal Championship
Wolfenstein: Tides of War

I like Xbox Live though - I've even used it as a voice-over-IP phone for a free call to my friend in Korea a few times. 50 bucks a year just for free international long distance is well worth it IMHO. Next update will allow for voice messaging (of sorts). How sweet is that? :)

The reason Nintendo isn't online is that they think it isn't profitable. They don't care if some would play it online or not, they want to make money off of it. If they thought they could make money on it, everything would be online.

This comes straight from my Nintendo rep.

Hey if they did it the "Nintendo Way" it could be profitable. First they'll have 3 adapters, one for DSL, one for Cable, and one for Dialup. Then 2 months later they'll release faster versions of those adapters forcing everyone to upgrade. Then a month later they'll release Special Limited Edition "Crystal" Network Adapters. These "Crystal" Adapters will be the same thing as the normal ones, only they'll be decorated with Nintendo stickers and have a new color of plastic.

Nintendo just needs to work their magic & imagination to make Internet play profitable.

t-dave speaks the truth... this is why they have a 'wait and see' attitude about alot of stuff. I don't blame them, but this is the reason why I don't like them as a company (and this is the only negative thing you'll ever find me saying about them) - I mean, all companies are financially motivated, but they are the worst of the lot I think. The american console companies with their "spend money to make money" attitude have given us the most bang for our buck (IMHO) - to their downfall obviously, but still... someone always comes up and takes their place.

Double Dash = Mario Kart. I hope you've at least heard of that....

Yeah, that's tunneling. Basically it tricks the Xbox into thinking it's linked directly to another Xbox system (i.e. a LAN) when it's actually connected to the other Xbox(es) via TCP/IP (i.e. the Internet). The problem is that LANs are a lot faster most TCP/IP connections and so the games aren't necessarily optimized for TCP/IP, which can result in a lot of lag. It works well for some people but it's absolutely unplayable for others; it depends on the connection and a bunch of other technical configuration thingies. It's certainly no substitute for true online play.

You have to take risks in the Video Game console business to get ahead. Sometimes like 3DO and their all in one console you fail. Sony took a big risk with the playstation and banking on CD-ROM gaming and it paid off. They pushed it again, by trying the 3DO formula of multimedia gaming system, but at a more reasonable price and it paid off again. While Nintendo tried to stand pat with cartridges and got left behind and still hasn't caught up. If it wasn't for the fact their games are so damn good I may have given up on them like so many have.

Microsoft's big risks haven't really paid off this generation, but they could the next. They are now the ones that are pushing the technology with a hard drive, a serious online network, ripping your own music into the console and cutting edge graphics. Even PS2 and Cube owners that have passed on the Xbox this round have earned some respect for what Microsoft is trying to accomplish. My only worry for them is they may try to go the cheaper route with the next console and lose all that good momentum they have built. Time will tell there.

Nintendo needs to learn from this and try to be the ones to push the technology next time out. Sure they will have their loyal followers like me buying the next console, but they need to have all the perks the competition has so their console doesn't seem like second best. As much as I love the pure gaming ideal, the fact is people want the option to play DVDs and go online to game with their consoles. Heck even if they never use those features people like to at least know they could pop in a DVD if they felt like it or download an updated roster. They also need to support a standard DVD disc size (or HD-DVD if thats what Sony and MS do) and controller layout so third parties won't feel hindered trying to do a Nintendo version of multiconsole games.

Honestly, we can talk about the pluses and minuses of online gaming, but if Nintendo doesn't get the third parties back on their side in a big way they are done as a console maker.

I give them all the credit in the world as a game publisher and I think they have supported the Cube with some great first and second party titles and a few nice exclusives. However, that is not enough to compete with Sony. They have to get the third parties fully on board next time out. If that means making the console more third party friendly instead of designing it mostly for Miyamoto games and lowering their licensing fees then they had better do it.

Maybe you don't have to take big risks and you can stay around forever. Who says you have to be #1 to make money? What if Nintendo decided to invest a billion dollars in online gaming and went out of business? What good would that do them? Nintendo seems to have outlasted quite a few companies at this point: Sega, 3DO, Atari, SNK, and countless others. All of these companies had console and/or handhelds and Nintendo still seems to be around. Who knows where things are headed, for all we know online gaming could lose it's appeal (though I doubt that will happen any time soon). I'm much more interested in playing with people sitting in the room with me than friends or strangers in other places. Besides, it's not like they are losing money at this point, they just don't have the largest share of the market.

As I understand it the cartridge wasn't the big problem, it was more of the difficulty of development on the N64 and lack of support in the development from Nintendo. The CD didn't give that much to games other than relentless cut scenes. It was supposed to have lowered the prices of games, and while it definitely does in the long run it hasn't seemed to do much at release time. I find the load time of the PS2 games I've played annoying (I do own a PS and PS2), cartridges never have that problem and for whatever reason the Cube seems to handle it fairly well after the initial startup.

I don't think it's stubborn, it's just good business sense.

Most people don't want to pay to play online, especially not at a rate that makes in profitable for the company.

$50 a year like live is great, but from what I've read MS still loses a ton on live. Nintendo doesn't have deep pockets, and has taken losses recently, and can't afford to take a hit by offering online gaming that isn't profitable for them.

They should at least go the Sony route and get the online stuff out and encourage developers to use it ala Sony there so at least third party online games on the system to bring in that market.

Even if Nintendo did try to push the online aspect more like Sony in a "open" system I doubt it would that successful. What's PS2 got? 2-3%? That's 2.1 million gamers for the PS network at 3% . If Nintendo netted 3% it would only be 450k users of their games. This is to say, adding online capabilities is not going to move much software for Nintendo.

What's more, many of you will be quick to say that Nintendo is aimed and children and that the PS2 has had much larger success with older demographics. If you believe yourself you will see that Nintendo would be even more likely to capture less then 3% of their gamers, thus dropping the number further.

When Nintendo can crap out a simply pokemon game and sell 2 million copies I don't see them rushing to invest online this generation.

Summary:
PS2 online works okay because there are 70 million systems out there.

Xbox LIVE works because MS provides an awsome service at unprofitable prices.

Nintendo doesn't have/want either situations = no online support (for now)

With over 10 million subscribers to various MMORPG games that charge a monthly fee, I'd say there are a couple people here and there that are willing to pay to play. Perhaps Nintendo should try going after these people for fun and profit.

But do these PC MMORPG players own or have any interests in consoles.

From polls here, game stores not carrying PC games, etc. it seems pretty clear that the PC and console gaming markets are largely seperate with overlap amongst the most hardcore gamers (those for whom gaming is at least their favorite hobby, if not their favorite thing period).

Now that is what Live needs - an online rpg that doesn't charge a monthly fee or that charges a very small fee.

There is no denying that online gaming is on the rise, but then again, no one said that MS or Sony is making money on online gaming. In fact MS has stated numerous times that are taking a gigantic hit on XBox live (setting up the network and supportting it) for the first "several" years. Trust me, if online gaming is a cash cow for the operator, Nintendo would be all over it. But right now, it's not.

Exactly. They're not being stubborn, they're just trying to stick around. They're already not in great financial shape, and don't have the deep pockets of MS and Sony as gaming is pretty much all they do whereas Sony and MS make a ton of money of software, hardware and consumer electronics.

Online gaming is on the rise, is here to stay, but it's not profitable for the console makers right now and with its limited financial resources Nintendo simply has to try to stick it out until it is.

They have $4 billion a year in sales, make $500 million a year in profit, and are sitting on $3 billion in cash. I would say that's decent financial shape.

http://www.hoovers.com/nintendo/--ID...actsheet.xhtml

(the $3 billion is pulled from a few articles I've read recently)

They COULD invest a billion dollars but how long will it take to make that back? How many MORE copies of Mario Kart or Mario Party will sell because it's online? They are going to sell plenty of their games regardless of online or not. Their best move would be to make the new system Internet capable with a Nintendo provided adapter and let the 3rd parties duke it out and run their own servers (IMHO).

I think the assumption that Nintendo can go the PS/2 route is flawed. 3rd party support for Nintendo game consoles has been weak since N64. Nintendo at this point has to put out a lot of effort to convince developers that it is sincere about online gaming.

I really can't see Nintendo going the PS/2 route because no matter what they will have to come off some cash.
Hell, they still will have convince developers to create games for their consoles, Thats another problem ;}

I played Everquest for 3 years and I have no intentions of paying to play normal genre games on a console or a PC. After playing it, I have no intentions of paying to play MMORPG's again either. The MMORPG genre is a whole other animal in the gaming world. Constant updates, interacting with thousands on a daily basis, meaning the pay to play model is justified. There will always be people that are willing to pay to play for something that should be free, fortunately they still seem to be in the minority overall.