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Crack down on "flame bait" needed

Old 09-25-02, 02:47 PM
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Crack down on "flame bait" needed

Mods, I figured this was better here than Feedback as it concerns only this forum, but feel free to move it if you feel it's appropriate. I'd prefer it to stay here so as to generate discussion on the issue by people who post in this forum.

There's a problem with many threads devoloving into off topic arguments and system wars, and a big part of it is flame bait.

I think the no console bashing rule should be extened to cover this sort of thing.

For example in the "Will you buy star fox?" thread, this was posted.

"..it sounds better than Sly Cooper, which I was holding up hopes for. Next not to deliver: Blinx, Malice, and that PS2 platformer about the robot from the Spyro team."

While that's not a console bash, it is definitely flame bait. It really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and has the potential to pull the thread off topic and start a flame war as PS2 and X-box fans object to the statment that those games will "not deliver."

Another type of flame bait is people posting abrasive replies that have no relevance to the post their responding to.

For example, in the Steel Battalion thread I posted saying that the game was too expensive, and likely wouldn's sell well meaning that the controller would likely not be supported by any other games, meaning that you're payin $200 for one game which I think is to much.

I was hit with this response.

"And this will signal the end of Microsoft and their crappy Xbox, right?"

I never mentioned anything about the x-box, or any postive or negative effect Steel Battallion could have on the system, so the comment was unwarrented flame bait. If I wasn't just coming off a suspension for getting into an argument in a similar situation of someone posting abrasive comments that had nothing to do with what I posted, this thread would likely have devolved into an argument.

At any rate, for the future I'm just going to stay out of any flame bait arguments, and use the "report this post to a moderator" link, and hopefully they'll agree it's a problem and start deleting flamebate and warning/banning banning repeat offenders.

Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 09-25-02 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 09-25-02, 03:08 PM
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Re: Crack down on "flame bait" needed

For example, in the Steel Battalion thread I posted saying that the game was too expensive, and likely wouldn's sell well meaning that the controller would likely not be supported by any other games, meaning that you're payin $200 for one game which I think is to much.

I was hit with this response.

"And this will signal the end of Microsoft and their crappy Xbox, right?"
I just looked at the thread to see who responded to you with that. Unfortunately, both you, the replier and other people on this board have prior reputations that still go on to this day.

For some reason posters here will not get over the prior reputations and give people 2nd, 3rd, etc. chances to change how they post. Even the most innocent of posts from your POV would be seen as a strike against whatever is being talked about because of your prior reputation.

It's very unfortunate that this happens and sometimes cool heads need to prevail in this specific forum instead of when replying they immediately think "this poster is an (enter system here) fan and is obviously making a strike against the (enter system here) that I like".

It is very smart to rise above the flame bait and I wish you good luck in doing so.

EDIT: And this belongs more in the Feedback forum where more admins/mods can see it than just the ones that oversee this forum.
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Old 09-25-02, 03:23 PM
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Here's a tip that will keep you out of a lot of trouble: if you don't own the system don't talk about it. I know that sounds harsh, but that's what I think it would take to end all the arguing that goes on here.
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Old 09-25-02, 03:59 PM
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That is kinda true though, once you own all three of the next gen systems you really start to see things differently. It helps that you're open enough to buy all three to begin with though, I think most of the console bashers wouldn't buy a certain one even if they had all the money in the world.

People just have things against them, especially the X-box because it's owned by Microsoft. I personally think it's kinda silly to hate something just because of the corporation behind it (the same thing is happening with Kingdom Hearts) and it's just a shame they're missing out because of something like that.

Nintendo really brought back a dying video game society back when they released the NES. I think a lot of folks here might not be old enough to remember that, but I'm not sure we'd be where we are today without them reviving the marketplace.

And then there's the PS2, some people will always hate something just because it's the most popular or the industry leader. I'm not sure why, I'm not sure why you'd hate either of them enough to get into name-calling fights over them. I donno, guess I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

~Scheherazade
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Old 09-25-02, 04:00 PM
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Okay Josh - I apoligize for making that comment. AgtFox is right in that I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt or a 3rd, 4th, 5th chance or whatever. I'm growing tired of hearing the same 4 or 5 people blab on and on about how terrible the xbox is or whatever, and none of them even own one. Your comments about buying a game for the Xbox just seemed so much like a slam because well, you don't own an Xbox and you would never buy an Xbox game anyway - and it's obvious and you didn't even need to say it. I guess from your point of view you probably didn't mean it that way. I'm sure you wouldn't buy any game that was 200 bucks. Most people wouldn't. Just know that people see these comments as a slant towards Microsoft as if you have some sort of agenda. I guess my comments towards Gamecube are seen that way when I really don't personally feel like I am slamming anything. I don't know about you, but I don't like having a reputation on a message board. I especially don't like that people dislike me here.

Here's what the forum looks like to me - it looks like everyone regards Nintendo as being the best game developer and console maker in the world and that Micro$oft bought their way into the video game industry and their games all suck and their console is a failure. If anyone says anything bad about Nintendo, they're just idiots and if anyone says anything bad about Microsoft, they're geniuses. It looks like alot of people on the forum own an Xbox... maybe even more than those that own a Gamecube... so I can only assume that the Xbox owners are quieter about it than the Gamecube owners. So I guess I took it upon myself to defend the Xbox against all the slams. Honestly, I don't care - but I kinda thought it was fun to debate stuff like this. So now when I see you posting in a thread about a console you don't own and have been vocal about your uh.. lack of enthusiasm for, it just seems to me like some sort of backhanded jab at it. I'm sorry if I'm reading into it more than I should be, but I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way about alot of your posts.

Gallant Pig has the right idea in that we shouldn't talk about a system we don't own. I don't own a Gamecube and even though there's one in my house now, I guess my lack of interest in it is well known. I've been trying to stay away from those discussions (even though my last post was regarding Nintendo ) lately. Anyway - unless I have something nice to say, I won't say it at all regarding the Gamecube anymore. As far as coming to the defense of Xbox (which is basically what I feel like I'm doing), I won't do that anymore either. Ultimately, I just want to talk about games and stuff. Console success is something I really don't give a sh*t about. Microsoft could've sold 4 consoles and as long as they keep releasing games that I like, I would be happy. Nintendo can sell 60 million units and my feelings for it will be the same. Same goes for Sony.

As for flame bait - I don't think that will stop until people stop posting negative crap in threads about consoles they don't own. Same goes for the games. If you have no interest in a game, then there's really no need to go into a thread asking opinions about that game and say you have no interest in it. I say "you" to mean everyone... not you.

To everyone who hates me - I'm sorry you feel that way... it was never my intention to make enemies. Believe it or not I've just been trying to bring balance to the force.

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Old 09-25-02, 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
Here's a tip that will keep you out of a lot of trouble: if you don't own the system don't talk about it. I know that sounds harsh, but that's what I think it would take to end all the arguing that goes on here.
True, true
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Old 09-25-02, 04:11 PM
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See I only own 1 of the big three and even if I do enjoy going into threads about the other 2 I rarely make any comments unless I've really heard a great deal about the game or the console.

There are good games for the other 2 but I couldn't see myself getting them as of yet. There is a decent supply from what I do have but it's still fun and entertaining to hear what else is coming out.
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Old 09-25-02, 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
Here's a tip that will keep you out of a lot of trouble: if you don't own the system don't talk about it. I know that sounds harsh, but that's what I think it would take to end all the arguing that goes on here.
I was thinking about this too, but thought it would be too heavy handed to say that. I went about it the other way and went with the prior reputations.
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Old 09-25-02, 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Scheherazade
That is kinda true though, once you own all three of the next gen systems you really start to see things differently. It helps that you're open enough to buy all three to begin with though, I think most of the console bashers wouldn't buy a certain one even if they had all the money in the world.

People just have things against them, especially the X-box because it's owned by Microsoft. I personally think it's kinda silly to hate something just because of the corporation behind it (the same thing is happening with Kingdom Hearts) and it's just a shame they're missing out because of something like that.

Nintendo really brought back a dying video game society back when they released the NES. I think a lot of folks here might not be old enough to remember that, but I'm not sure we'd be where we are today without them reviving the marketplace.

And then there's the PS2, some people will always hate something just because it's the most popular or the industry leader. I'm not sure why, I'm not sure why you'd hate either of them enough to get into name-calling fights over them. I donno, guess I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

~Scheherazade
I agree - and I've opened my mind to the Gamecube even though I've always disliked Nintendo's business practices. As for Kingdom Hearts - my boycott is probably very silly (I avoid Kingdom Hearts because Disney doesn't treat Asian movies right) and I've been planning to borrow it from my neighbor once he's done with it... I decided this just last night after seeing a commercial for it... it looks kinda neat.

If I had all the money in the world, I would buy a PS2 and a Panasonic Platinum Gamecube. I don't really have any hatred for any console and even though people may see me as a console basher, I really don't feel like I am. I have just been trying to defend against bashers, but in doing so I've been labeled as one myself. Misguided approach on my part I guess.

I think all 3 systems are great in their own right... I just have my preferences like anybody else.
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Old 09-25-02, 04:31 PM
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Re: Crack down on "flame bait" needed

Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
There's a problem with many threads devoloving into off topic arguments and system wars, and a big part of it is flame bait.
Youre one of the worst offenders. Youre the one that goes into Videocard discussions to tell us were being ripped off. Youre also the one who takes every disagreement as a personal attack.
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Old 09-25-02, 04:44 PM
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I agree that people shouldn't go into threads if they can't add anything constructive. There are far too many threads where someone is asking for XBOX (or GC or PS2) owners' opinions about a specific game, controller etc. and suddenly we're treated to the opinions of people that don't even own (or plan to buy) that console.

I don't understand why people feel the need to go into these threads and start trouble. Not only does this get threads off-topic, but starts a console war arguement in every thread.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:15 PM
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Josh, very simple.. If you see Flame Bait.. Don't fall for it. bite your lip and keep the comment to yourself if you don't think your response will be the end of or dodging of a flame war.

Your a terrible offender. It would be like me complaining about padding...

Maybe you shouldn't take things to the heart. and I do remember you jumping into the Video card discussion with random comments like that.

Very simple. you see flame bait. don't bite.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
Here's a tip that will keep you out of a lot of trouble: if you don't own the system don't talk about it. I know that sounds harsh, but that's what I think it would take to end all the arguing that goes on here.
That should be the Video Game Forum Motto.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:23 PM
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Re: Crack down on "flame bait" needed

Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
for the future I'm just going to stay out of any flame bait arguments, and use the "report this post to a moderator" link, and hopefully they'll agree it's a problem and start deleting flamebate and warning/banning banning repeat offenders.
I hope so but your definition of flame bait seems odd. When you and Flay were both suspended for attacking each other you came back and REPEATEDLY called him out (like HERE). It certainly seems to me like you dont think the rules apply to you.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:23 PM
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So now there's an entrance fee to certain threads? Silly.

Self control first. Suspensions second.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
I do remember you jumping into the Video card discussion with random comments like that.
And when I pointed out that maybe he should start another thread since that wasnt what it was about he started one titled "TO APPEASE JOLTADDICT" If you look up flamebait in the dictionary I think that thread is referenced.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Aghama
So now there's an entrance fee to certain threads? Silly.

Self control first. Suspensions second.

Aghama, I hope you don't think my statement applied to everyone here. You seem to be one of the most unbiased posters on this forum. You don't go into other console topics and crap all over them. You definitely don't have a reputation like AgtFox mentioned.

It is silly thought to think there would be a need for such a drastic measure in order to stop arguments like that, but the truth is, it would definitely cut it down a lot. This subforum has a reputation of being immature and argumentative. It definitely earned that reputation.

People who own only a certain console strongly associate theirselves with that console. So much so you could compare it to someone who considers themself pro-choice/pro-life or republican/democrat. And here we have a forum where there is no specified discussion of any one console. It's a free-for-all. Some people (probably myself included) have reputations for being biased. Those people repeatedly go into other thread of consoles they don't own and throw their two cents in and just to piss off the people who own said console. I don't go into a Lexus forum and tell people that the new Lexus coming out next year sucks, and I would never get even though I would never buy a Lexus in the first place. It happens here all the time though.

I used to be biased against the PS2. Now I own one. I play SOCOM as much as I used to play Halo. I have respect for the PS2. I also realize it's not the be-all end-all of consoles. I know there are great reasons to own an Xbox or a GCN for that matter. You obviously don't need to own all three consoles to be able to think like that, but that is definitely not the norm in this place. Please realize that. I would include Cytner in that group as well and AgtFox before he own all three and a few other guys as well. But for everyone one of you there are three guys who are blind loyalists.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:57 PM
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I dunno.

I've played through all of Halo on a friend's Xbox. I've also played DOA 3 and a few other titles. I think I can offer an opinion if I see a thread called "Isn't Halo the greatest game ever?"

I think as long as there is no inherent "bashing" going on, you should be able to participate in a discussion reasonable and without crazy emotions and lashing out.

I have been a pretty big offender in the past on the "X-Box" bashing train, but I have really tried to curb that lately. But if someone says "Which of the three consoles should I buy" I am going to say a PS2 or a Gamecube (because those are the ones I own). I think some people may say that's "bashing." X-box had too many things I didn't want/need so i didn't buy it. Is that considered bashing? Do I not belong in threads that ask those questions?

Now, that said..entering a thread just to pick a fight is wrong, but that's what the "report this post to a moderator" button is for. Responding automatically makes it JUST as offensive as the original remark, and I am guilty of this too.

So make an effort to keep things on topic. If someone says "I think Super Mario Sunshine is the bee's knees" just let them think that. No reason to argue, it's their opinion. Just don't go into the "Mario Appreciation Thread" and say "Mario sucks." Seems pretty simple to me.
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Old 09-25-02, 06:02 PM
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Pot....kettle

Also, if you are so intent on getting rid of flame bait, why in the hell would you post in the Steel Batallion thread when you say this "I don't like Mech games anyway"

As I said before, Pot...kettle
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Old 09-25-02, 06:13 PM
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Outsider looking in:

What I hear being said is that if you don't own a system, you shouldn't be allowed to on it. But by definition, a is not allowed in any case in any DVDTalk forum/subforum.

To say a person could make NO comment about a system unless you own it is just silly, and putting that forward as a requirement sounds elitist, and could keep new members/lurkers from wanting to participate at all. There certainly aren't enough DC threads for me to participate in.

I wanted to figure out what this Animal Crossing thing was all about, and threw a couple posts in those threads. I don't have a GCN, but I know someone who does, and those threads helped me convince her of the value of that game, which she bought today. And as I become closer to mentally justifying the purchase of a current generation system, I would like to think that I would be welcomed as a poster here, not told to go away until I have said system.

When I look at the recent suspensions, it's easy to see that name-calling is never good. We certainly don't want the only comments about a system/game allowed to be positive ones. But I agree that if a negative reply is going to be posted, a reason behind that negative stance could be valid. But really, those sorts of comments are better served in threads about what you like. For example, saying in a PS2 related thread that it is inferior because it doesn't have DD5.1 is a . That is better served in an X-Box related thread stating why you like it. Heck even in the "what should I get for my nephew" type threads, that comment should be worded that you REALLY like the X-box because _________, not that GCN or PS2 sucks because they don't have _____.

A is a is a . Constructive criticism is good, but personal attacks and threadcraps result in suspensions/bans everywhere in DVDTalk, and every poster should expect enforcement. If you are prone to such postings, re-read everything before you hit "Submit" and make sure you aren't doing things like this.
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Old 09-25-02, 06:21 PM
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Who asked you, Sega Boy?
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Old 09-25-02, 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Y2K Falcon
Outsider looking in:

What I hear being said is that if you don't own a system, you shouldn't be allowed to on it. But by definition, a is not allowed in any case in any DVDTalk forum/subforum.

To say a person could make NO comment about a system unless you own it is just silly, and putting that forward as a requirement sounds elitist, and could keep new members/lurkers from wanting to participate at all. There certainly aren't enough DC threads for me to participate in.

I wanted to figure out what this Animal Crossing thing was all about, and threw a couple posts in those threads. I don't have a GCN, but I know someone who does, and those threads helped me convince her of the value of that game, which she bought today. And as I become closer to mentally justifying the purchase of a current generation system, I would like to think that I would be welcomed as a poster here, not told to go away until I have said system.

When I look at the recent suspensions, it's easy to see that name-calling is never good. We certainly don't want the only comments about a system/game allowed to be positive ones. But I agree that if a negative reply is going to be posted, a reason behind that negative stance could be valid. But really, those sorts of comments are better served in threads about what you like. For example, saying in a PS2 related thread that it is inferior because it doesn't have DD5.1 is a . That is better served in an X-Box related thread stating why you like it. Heck even in the "what should I get for my nephew" type threads, that comment should be worded that you REALLY like the X-box because _________, not that GCN or PS2 sucks because they don't have _____.

A is a is a . Constructive criticism is good, but personal attacks and threadcraps result in suspensions/bans everywhere in DVDTalk, and every poster should expect enforcement. If you are prone to such postings, re-read everything before you hit "Submit" and make sure you aren't doing things like this.
Disagree.
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Old 09-25-02, 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
Disagree.
I have more to say but can't use the computer right now.
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Old 09-25-02, 06:42 PM
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What I hear being said is that if you don't own a system, you shouldn't be allowed to on it. But by definition, a is not allowed in any case in any DVDTalk forum/subforum.

No, my comment doesn't apply to everyone. Just those who have a "reputation". I mention this in my post to Aghama. Of course some craps are really blatent and obvious "That sux!!", however some are very subtle like... "I played this at Target last night for 5 minutes, and it sucks". Sometimes anything posted by Trigger that's Anti-Nintendo is going to lead to a lot of arguing, same with Josh or Scandal posting about the Xbox.

To say a person could make NO comment about a system unless you own it is just silly, and putting that forward as a requirement sounds elitist, and could keep new members/lurkers from wanting to participate at all. There certainly aren't enough DC threads for me to participate in.

No it's not silly. If a newby or lurker wants to ask some innocent question on whether the Xbox does 480p, of course there's no problemw with that. You're making a strawman. However if an adament GCN support tells me how much the Xbox controller sucks, is that really necessary?

I wanted to figure out what this Animal Crossing thing was all about, and threw a couple posts in those threads. I don't have a GCN, but I know someone who does, and those threads helped me convince her of the value of that game, which she bought today.

Sure you had a few questions, you weren't blindly criticizing because you don't like Sim games. Apparently my statement needed to be qualified better: I was speaking more toward individuals in general (hence the use of "you").

And as I become closer to mentally justifying the purchase of a current generation system, I would like to think that I would be welcomed as a poster here, not told to go away until I have said system.

Not the case at all.

When I look at the recent suspensions, it's easy to see that name-calling is never good. We certainly don't want the only comments about a system/game allowed to be positive ones. But I agree that if a negative reply is going to be posted, a reason behind that negative stance could be valid.

Sure it could be valid, that's when you look at who said it and in what context. Why would someone who doesn't own a GCN and never will be discussing the next Link coming out in a negative way?


But really, those sorts of comments are better served in threads about what you like.

Agreed.

For example, saying in a PS2 related thread that it is inferior because it doesn't have DD5.1 is a .

What about in an Xbox thread saying it's weird to say the game is superior if it does have DD5.1?

That is better served in an X-Box related thread stating why you like it. Heck even in the "what should I get for my nephew" type threads, that comment should be worded that you REALLY like the X-box because _________, not that GCN or PS2 sucks because they don't have _____.

A is a is a . Constructive criticism is good, but personal attacks and threadcraps result in suspensions/bans everywhere in DVDTalk, and every poster should expect enforcement. If you are prone to such postings, re-read everything before you hit "Submit" and make sure you aren't doing things like this.

"Constructive criticism is good", not sure I agree with that. How can we constructively criticize here? This isn't the amateur photography thread.
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Old 09-25-02, 07:19 PM
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Josh, if it is not the pot calling the kettle...

You have been very negative about Steel Battlion and continue to bash it's price. I would think once or twice is enough.

But nope, let's do it a few more times. Let's beat the dead horse some more.
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