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Online console play could really suck

Old 08-15-02, 03:31 AM
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Online console play could really suck

I was thinking that online console play would be cheat-free, since wannabe hackers couldn't code cheat programs for it. But I was talking about it with a friend, and he mentioned GameShark.

Apparently, Gameshark allowed players to cheat with impunity in online Dreamcast games like PSO.
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Old 08-15-02, 03:55 AM
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Chu had some cheaters too. But their names got known fast.
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Old 08-15-02, 07:33 AM
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The cheat devices are used a lot on PSO from what I hear. I agree it will probably be abused, but hopefully you can figure out who the cheaters are and avoid them.
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Old 08-15-02, 07:47 AM
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For the PS2s maybe, but at least MS is all on their servers. It would be pretty hard to run a cheat and keep it a secret for long. So they would filter it out and ban players. So Live at least probally wont have cheaters.
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Old 08-15-02, 07:48 AM
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I think Xbox has a plan to prevent cheating.

Cheating in online games is sometimes a big problem on the PC. Sometimes it gets me really mad and sometimes I don't mind if someone cheats - like in Counter Strike. The cheaters usually suck anyway (like most people who play it) so I find it adds to the challenge. I tried the cheats myself once and it makes it even more clear who else is cheating. Seeing through walls becomes so obvious when you can see through them too. Watching someone track an enemy through a wall or two is a dead giveaway. My score wasn't any better or worse when I used the cheats - I guess cuz I didn't try to take advantage of them and was more trying it out for educational purposes. Plus, I didn't want to give myself away as a cheater and have a bunch of people going "cheater! cheater!" I did it for about 4 nights in a row before removing the cheats from my computer. It's for people with no skills. Sometimes you get someone who's skillful anyway who takes advantage of cheats and that's just lame. I get accused of cheating more when I'm not cheating than those few days that I was using the cheats. I didn't get my numbers on theclq by cheating and I'm damn proud of it.
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Old 08-15-02, 08:15 AM
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XBox Live will definitely have measures to ban people if they attempt to cheat. Ed Fries talked about that at E3.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out on the PS2 and Gamecube.

Without a unified network, the responsibility falls back on each publisher server. This year for the PS2, Sony, Sierra, Electronic Arts, Sega, Capcom, and Activision will each have to prevent cheating on each of their servers.

For the Gamecube, it will be Sega's PSO I & II. The Gameshark for the Gamecube ships 27 days before PSO is released. People may be cheating right from the launch of the game.
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Old 08-15-02, 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by Flay
For the Gamecube, it will be Sega's PSO I & II. The Gameshark for the Gamecube ships 27 days before PSO is released. People may be cheating right from the launch of the game.
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Old 08-15-02, 09:04 AM
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One way to reduce cheating would be to establish a client/server setup similiar to Battle.net. However, this is an expensive proposition, tends to create lag for 56k users, and would be up to each developer to do for their own games. I suppose Microsoft has the best opportunity since most (all?) games will be routed through Xbox live and because it's aimed at a broadband audience.
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Old 08-15-02, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, nobody cheats on battle.net.
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Old 08-15-02, 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by asabase
Yeah, nobody cheats on battle.net.
Hence the term reduce and not eliminate.
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Old 08-15-02, 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Groucho
One way to reduce cheating would be to establish a client/server setup similiar to Battle.net. However, this is an expensive proposition, tends to create lag for 56k users, and would be up to each developer to do for their own games. I suppose Microsoft has the best opportunity since most (all?) games will be routed through Xbox live and because it's aimed at a broadband audience.
I don't think Battle.net was all that successful at reducing cheats/hacks. Just look back at Diablo2 as an example; people was able to dupe valuable items like SOJ and use hacks to reveal the entire level. All those dupes are still floating around. Sure, they banned some CD-keys, but they certainly didn't curtail the problems. Then recently even bugged/hacked items are running rampant on Battle.net again. Rune exploitation, hacked SOJ with properties of an Occulus orb, chest hacks, you name it. The problem was Blizzard kind of let things slide for a while, and when the cheating got so out of hand, it was too much to rein in the hackers and correct the problems.

The only way to eliminate, or even just reducing some of the cheating, is to have the game companies take a very hardline stance from the very beginning. Of course, doing so also run the risk of gernerating some bad PR for the company. But it just seems like cheating will always be a part of the public/online gaming experience.

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Old 08-15-02, 11:55 AM
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To be blunt, the fact that you just thought of this now confirms that you really have no idea what the costs and benefits of online console play are and have been.
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Old 08-15-02, 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by ~~ PAL ~~


I don't think Battle.net was all that successful at reducing cheats/hacks. Just look back at Diablo2 as an example; people was able to dupe valuable items like SOJ and use hacks to reveal the entire level. All those dupes are still floating around. Sure, they banned some CD-keys, but they certainly didn't curtail the problems. Then recently even bugged/hacked items are running rampant on Battle.net again. Rune exploitation, hacked SOJ with properties of an Occulus orb, chest hacks, you name it. The problem was Blizzard kind of let things slide for a while, and when the cheating got so out of hand, it was too much to rein in the hackers and correct the problems.

The only way to eliminate, or even just reducing some of the cheating, is to have the game companies take a very hardline stance from the very beginning. Of course, doing so also run the risk of gernerating some bad PR for the company. But it just seems like cheating will always be a part of the public/online gaming experience.

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[email protected] it !!!!
I play D2 nightly on BATTLE.NET, and I thought the new game was secure !!! I have seen people spouting off about "Map-Hack" but I have no idea what that is, can you explain? Actually, can you explain all of your mentioned cheats so I can be on the lookout for them?

BTW, what does a SOJ do? I know everyone wants one, but I have no idea what it does. I am building my character, a 38th level Necro, but I have never cheated.
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Old 08-15-02, 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by mr.snowmizer
To be blunt, the fact that you just thought of this now confirms that you really have no idea what the costs and benefits of online console play are and have been.
It didn't occur to me that Gameshark would work online. Without that, cheating would be pretty much impossible for almost everyone.
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Old 08-15-02, 01:10 PM
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I think the repurcussions on XBL might be a little more severe considering that you are PAYING for the right to play on there. I hope myself MS is very unforgiving and simply takes the stance that cheaters lose their money and their account. Sorry too bad. I CANNOT stand cheaters. If you suck at a game, too bad, get better.
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Old 08-15-02, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by FonMan
[email protected] it !!!!
I play D2 nightly on BATTLE.NET, and I thought the new game was secure !!! I have seen people spouting off about "Map-Hack" but I have no idea what that is, can you explain? Actually, can you explain all of your mentioned cheats so I can be on the lookout for them?
I'm not sure where you can find the Map Hack, but it just lets you see the level - stairs, shrines, etc. Not too helpful except when rushing.
BTW, what does a SOJ do? I know everyone wants one, but I have no idea what it does. I am building my character, a 38th level Necro, but I have never cheated.
An SOJ is a Stone of Jordan - rare ring - gives +1 to all levels - something like that. I don't play much any more, but they're pretty much used as currency since there is a fixed number of them (besides duping).
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Old 08-15-02, 03:14 PM
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This is sad. How much of a loser do you have to be to cheat so you can win at a video game?
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Old 08-15-02, 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by sexy_overlord
This is sad. How much of a loser do you have to be to cheat so you can win at a video game?
This is why I quit playing the original Diablo and Half-Life. Half-Life was just stupid with all of the cheating. Its a great game, but when you have people with aim-bots and defense bots that allow you move out of the way just in time, it gets a little frustrating. I hate cheats. Damn kids !
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Old 08-15-02, 03:42 PM
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i played sport games online with the dc, i never noticed any cheaters. I think there were some problems with a racing game and pso.

I remember people using aimbots with the rail gun on quake2 which was crazy, and i think there were some UT cheats also b/c one time my friend and i played these guys and there only request was we play on their server, they completely creamed us and refused a rematch on a public server.

EQ has delt with cheating as well as most other online games, So nothing new for the console to have to deal with.
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Old 08-15-02, 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by hypeiv
i played sport games online with the dc, i never noticed any cheaters. I think there were some problems with a racing game and pso.

I remember people using aimbots with the rail gun on quake2 which was crazy, and i think there were some UT cheats also b/c one time my friend and i played these guys and there only request was we play on their server, they completely creamed us and refused a rematch on a public server.

EQ has delt with cheating as well as most other online games, So nothing new for the console to have to deal with.

Well, PC cheating is bad, but on the consoles, you've got a popular product that opens up cheating to a much less sophisticated audience. I had been thinking that online console games would be cheat-free because it's a closed box, but then I remembered Gameshark.

One good thing is that the GS can't do anything as subtle as a wallcheat, aimbot or maphack. Hopefully, if someone gamesharks godmode for themselves, there will be a server/client error that will boot them

Last edited by ScandalUMD; 08-15-02 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 08-15-02, 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by FonMan
[email protected] it !!!!
I play D2 nightly on BATTLE.NET, and I thought the new game was secure !!! I have seen people spouting off about "Map-Hack" but I have no idea what that is, can you explain? Actually, can you explain all of your mentioned cheats so I can be on the lookout for them?

BTW, what does a SOJ do? I know everyone wants one, but I have no idea what it does. I am building my character, a 38th level Necro, but I have never cheated.
FonMan,

Blake gave you a brief answer to your questions. I will try to be a little more detailed and cover some of the history as well.

Yes, the original concept behind the closed realms on Battle.net was to provide a cheat-free environment for online play. Therefore, all character stats and items are kept on the server side to prevent cheating and duplicating valuable items. People that wanted to cheat were encouraged to play on open-realms, which Blizzard does not monitor or control. However, this still did not stop people from trying to one-up Blizzard and other players. Around the beginning of 2001, or version 1.03/1.04, some people figured out a loophole to exploit and massively duplicated the
Stone of Jordan rings (SOJ) on Battle.net realms. Even though this loophole was eventually patched, all the dupes were NEVER destroyed or deleted. Even to this day, probably 85 to 90% of all the SOJ that float around were the result of that duping run. I think Blizzard's biggest mistake was to let this incident go without dealing out any punishment or made any corrections. My guess was at that time they didn't know how to delete all of the duped SOJs without running the risk of wiping somebody's legit SOJs as well. So rather than risking a PR nightmare, they just decided to let it slide. Lately, they have taken a much harder stance, and began deleting accounts and banning CD-keys. But that one incident still ruined the legitamacy of the game to this day.

SOJ is an unique ring, which at one time was the best item in the game. Even after the introduction of expansion items, it is still one of the best items today. It has the following stats:

+1 To All Skill Levels
Increase Maximum Mana 25%
Adds 1-12 Lightning Damage
+20 To Mana

This is a small item, only takes up one space, and is extremely valuable in its own right. So over time, it became the de-facto currency of exchange, especially after the duping incident supplying 100,000 to 500,000 SOJs to each realm (that's a guessed number, but I don't think it's that far off.) Monetary values aside, this ring is really only good for spell casters like a sorceress or necromancer.

Here's a little perspective based on my own experience. I never trades (just hate the whole concept of trading), and only take or give items with the few people that I play with regularly and trust (but never a SOJ). After playing for a year and a half, I have found a grand total of 7 SOJs on my own. I don't play this game religously, but it is very slims odds to find the best items in the game. But the majority of the people just used SOJs as currency to trade for things they want. Just realize that most of them were dupes.

As far as hacks and cheats, there are just too numerous to list here. When I have time, I could post a link to all the cheats currently available, and those that worked at one time but has since been patched. It will only list the properties and precautions.

If you play on US East, I could give you some specific pointers on how to spot cheaters and hacks. Let me know if you're interested.

PAL
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Old 08-15-02, 07:16 PM
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Heh, I've been playing for a year and never found a real SOJ (with 250mf too). I found a grand total of one in the pre-expansion days.

Maphack also lets you scroll the screen without moving. This is a big advantage for player vs. player amazons. They can lock on guided arrow and kill you from screens away.

It also changes the color of semi-valuable runes and charms when they drop, making it easier to pick them up before someone else notices. Unless the other person has item-grabber. Not sure if it is still working, but it lets the cheater pick up all valuable items that drop instantly, preventing anyone else from having a chance at them.
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Old 08-15-02, 09:12 PM
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I played Diablo 2, but I never got the expansion. I bought it when it came out in June, and I stopped playing a couple of weeks before PS2 came out. Actually, I may have quit when the Age of Kings expansion came out.

I had a necromancer at something like level 40, and I had the full complement of top Necro unique items(+7 to all skills), due to some crafty wheeling and dealing. and I was bored with the game. This was pre-duping, so I sold all my junk on e-bay and made about $300.
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Old 08-15-02, 10:32 PM
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Cheating will always exsist.

Sad but true. I admire the people for their technical skill at doing so, but gosh do I hate having to play against them. You really have to wonder. If somebody has to boost their ego by cheating at an online game, they must have no life.
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Old 08-16-02, 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by ~~ PAL ~~




This is a small item, only takes up one space, and is extremely valuable in its own right. So over time, it became the de-facto currency of exchange, especially after the duping incident supplying 100,000 to 500,000 SOJs to each realm (that's a guessed number, but I don't think it's that far off.) Monetary values aside, this ring is really only good for spell casters like a sorceress or necromancer.

Here's a little perspective based on my own experience. I never trades (just hate the whole concept of trading), and only take or give items with the few people that I play with regularly and trust (but never a SOJ). After playing for a year and a half, I have found a grand total of 7 SOJs on my own. I don't play this game religously, but it is very slims odds to find the best items in the game. But the majority of the people just used SOJs as currency to trade for things they want. Just realize that most of them were dupes.

As far as hacks and cheats, there are just too numerous to list here. When I have time, I could post a link to all the cheats currently available, and those that worked at one time but has since been patched. It will only list the properties and precautions.

If you play on US East, I could give you some specific pointers on how to spot cheaters and hacks. Let me know if you're interested.

PAL
Thank you for the EXCELLENT post. It's hard for us old people to find out what is going on with some games. I hate clans and cheating and it has been hard to figure out some of the behind the scenes stuff. I figured the SOJ was some sort of hack, way to many floating around.

I admit that I did dupe in the original game. I had ungodly plate of whale and a AAA staff of apocalypse ( i believe the most powerfull weapon for the first diablo) But this quickly ruined the game.

I also hate duels. It ruins the game because you dont know what kind of cheat your opponent will pull.

Mainly, my strategy is to build my NECRO and build perfect gems. Once I have 5 perfects of each I will give that up (very close to that) I play a lot of COW levels, but that can get annoying with lame players not fighting only to swoop in and steal the drops while you are doing all of the dirty work.

I like the game still, but it can get annoying at times. A link would be great so that I could learn what cheats are out there.

Again, thanks for the excellent post !
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