PS2 Progressive Scan
 

PS2.IGN.COM Tekken 4 Import Preview

Is this is only PS2 game out there which is progressive scan?

I still say, prove it. As we can tell from the whole sled storm flop, the media can't be trusted. Somebody prove that ANY PS2 game is prog. scan, and I'll be impressed.

Besides the fact that it's on the box? ;) I had actually never heard about the PS on Sled Storm until people here mentioned it, but with TK 4 I'd been hearing that for awhile now. Should be interesting!

Re: PS2 Progressive Scan
 

PS2 is not capable of progressive output

"It can be connected via composite, component and S-Video but currently does not output progressive component or any form of HDTV. Rumor has it that the system can be upgraded to progressive component with a software upgrade"

http://www.mikeshea.net/ps2.html

Re: Re: PS2 Progressive Scan
 

Is that all it would take? A software upgrade?

Well, this game was released in Japan, and I have heard nothing of the sort. There is no point in releasing a game with Progressive Scan if the PS2 do it. I have not heard of any software or hardware (for that matter) upgrade for the PS2 so it has to be able of progressive scan. I wish we had a Sony rep who could confirm or deny any or all of this.

EDIT: Brian - the part you are quoting from is for the DVD Player which has different software than the Gaming System. I believe that the PS2 is progressive scan for video games, but not DVDs. Looks like I'm going to have to pick up some Component Cables soon.

Does a PS2 even have component jacks?

Connections
Connector type 2 x game controller ( 9 PIN in line ) ¦ 1 x audio output ( RCA phono x 2 ) ¦ 1 x composite video output ( RCA phono ) ¦ 1 x SPDIF output ( TOS Link ) ¦ 2 x USB ( 4 PIN USB Type A ) ¦ 1 x i.LINK (IEEE 1394) ( 6 PIN FireWire )


http://electronics.cnet.com/electron...7-7932420.html


Sony intends to add much-enhanced progressive scan (525p) output capability to PS2 within the next six months, which will make the console a technology competitor with the very top-end existing DVD-Video players. Using software processing will likewise make distribution of any anticipated upgrades a relatively easy process for PS2 owners.

The down side: You are going to have to wait to get the product here in North America. Sony Computer Entertainment has announced that the product will be available in Fall 2000, with most insiders believing that the U.S. release will occur in September.

http://www.gadgetcentral.com/sonyps2_intro.htm

Yeah. There is an official one by Sony and Monster Cable makes one.

Sony Component A/V

The PS2 does not have internal component out jacks like a DVD player, but you can buy a cable (made by Sony and others) that attaches to the custom PS2 video output at the back of the system and has component output ends to hook up to your tv. I use one myself.

Tekken 4 is the first PS2 game that supports progressive tvs (via component). There is a good chance that other games in the future will also have progressive support. The system does not have progressive dvd support, and i'm not sure it is possible to add this support later.

Thank you for the clarification.

This is most curious. the unit does not have component outputs yet it can be made to output video in that manner? What is the method? Is there a flag in the hardware that is set or is it all software (hence emulation) that decides?

It might be possible by releasing a software upgrade. They upgraded the DVD drivers once, couldn't they release a CD which upgraded the DVD Player to Progressive Scan.

On a side note: I can't wait to see other game use Progressive Scan. GT4 would be amazing.

Some additional info that I have found

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...S2+progressive


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...S2+progressive

I can see how this is confusing if you don't know how videogame consoles work. They all use proprietary cables. The PS2, and all other recent systems, come with composite cables. You cannot use any composite cables you have lying around. The system has a custom video out plug (one piece), and different specialized cables are available where one end matches the custom plug and the other end has composite, svideo, or component outs (3 different cables, composite one is packed in with the system, other 2 must be purchased separately) to hook up to your tv.

For XBOX and Gamecube, i believe that a good number of games support progressive (implemented on a game by game basis), Tekken 4 is the first for PS2.

Actually, ALL games for the X-Box are progressive scan.

That article above about PS2 and progressive scan was old (2000?) and all speculation...

If the game supports 480p, it's going to take a hit performance-wise, just like if it supports DTS. So there will be some tradeoff.

Not true. SSX:Tricky actually performs better than SSX. As long as you can program it right, there won't be hit in performance.

Very true. They had a year longer to tweak the code, but they visuals and framerate could have been better without DTS. They use one of the parallel processors to do the DTS, so there will always be a hit. I think SSX Tricky's lackluster graphics and horrible framerate attest to that.

Of course the framerate could have been better without DTS, and it also could have been better if the game was black and white too. The human eye can see 30 fps, anything over that gives you few gains. Not once during SSX does the framerate drop below 35 fps. I don't see how you can say that is horrible frame rate.

As for Tekken 4, I don't think Namco would put out a game with as much following as Tekken 4 without it being the best they can get it.

Tekken 4 and Progressive Scan
 

OK, I posed the question to my PR contact at Namco US, and his reply was YES the Japanese version of Tekken 4 supports progressive scan.

Also he confirmed for me that while no offical announcement has been made regarding a US release, you can expect it in Q3 2002, and that YES progressive scan would be included in the US release as well.


So that's the word from the fine folks at Namco Hometek Inc.

Why would they even think of taking it out? Wouldn't it be a lot more hassle than just leaving it in?

DigitalBackSpin - did they happen to mention what kind of framerate they were getting. Just curious.

Tekken 4
 

The PR rep I spoke to wasn't overly forth coming.
Given that he was commenting on a title that hasn't even been offically announced for the US, that's somewhat understandable.

He would only elaborate as far as saying that it ran " Very smoothly" and that it looked "Noticably better than the standard mode". Which I'm assuming means that it clears up the PS2's known trouble with jaggies just like progresive scan mode on Xbox smooths things out nicely. As ar as "very Smoothly" that could mean just about anything as far as frame rate goes.

From the review on psxextreme.com:

Namco did it once with Tekken Tag Tournament, and they've done it again with Tekken 4; they were able to completely deflicker pretty much the whole image, and implement an effect that comes close to being full screen anti-aliasing. Not only that, but Tekken 4 can also be run with progressive scan 525i, which greatly increases the overall picture quality, and is especially noticeable on larger, more high-definition, TV screens (27'/32' Sony WEGAs, 32' Sony Trinitron XDRs, 43' Toshiba rear-projection HDTV, and etc). This feature pretty much eliminates any noticeable flickering and aliasing when the game is run on a more sophisticated television, and creates a really crisp and clean picture - owners of high definition screens should be pissing their pants by now. The overall look of Tekken 4 is practically perfect. Since Namco ported the software off of PS2 based arcade hardware, System 246, the result came to be quite expected, as Namco has always managed to make their console Tekken titles seem to look better or on par with their arcade counterparts (and it should be mentioned that the PS2 version of Tekken Tag Tournament looked light years better than the arcade version).

http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/re....asp?revID=137

--
Matthew Eagin

I just want one reviewer to measure the frame rate. I know this is a beautiful game and all, but I wanna hear about the frame rate.

Maybe I don't remember correctly, but 525i would be an interlaced video mode. Isn't the whole point of progressive scan to be a non-interlaced video mode?

Something here isn't working out right in my head.

-Naan

Damn. Looks like I missed that. True, it should say 525p or something like that. I'm going to guess that this is a typo and they meant to say 525p.

found this at gamers.com today.


Gamers.com: News:

Techno-geek Alert! PS2 Progressive-scan Able

By: James Mielke April 2, 2002 6:46 PM PST

While most people are content to plug their video game consoles in with the standard RCA cables (or, god forbid, with RF adapters), some swing to the higher end of audio-visual mayhem and prefer their games in as high a resolution as they can get. This usually means using either S-video, or optimally, component cables. Then, for folks who have the luxury of watching their movies on a progressive scan-enabled television, you have to have a progressive scan-enabled DVD player.
Take a look at this story for more on the specifics of progressive scan technology

Since the PS2 is a DVD player, you may have wondered if your PS2 can do progressive scan output. While the PS2 isn't currently equipped to do so, we're still glad to confirm that, yes, it can.

To get the full poop, we contacted Seth Luisi, producer on SOCOM: Navy Seals, over at Sony to see what he had to say on the subject. Word up, yo!

"The PS2 can indeed output in progressive scan and the new Sony Libraries that were just released allow PS2 developers to do Anamorphic Widescreen Progressive Scan output in their games. Actually, Tekken4, which was just released in Japan, is the first PS2 game with progressive scan output.

"We are actually considering adding progressive scan output to SOCOM but we may not be able to do to our tight schedule. In order to do progressive scan output you need to run with a full size frame buffer, not a half size frame buffer that is interlaced, which is what a lot of PS2 games use in order to save VRAM. In order to realistically use a full size frame buffer you have to use dynamic texturing and store a lot of your textures in main RAM, which is the method that SOCOM and most advanced 3rd generation PS2 games will use.

"Dynamic texturing has many pluses besides just allowing a full size frame buffer and progressive scan output. With dynamic texturing, the amount VRAM in the PS2 does not matter because you are only using it as a texture cache, as it was meant to be used. We use over 4MB of textures for our character models in SOCOM alone, even though the PS2 only has 4MB of VRAM. The textures are swapped into and out of VRAM every game frame (1/60th or 1/30th of a second) which the PS2 can do since it has such fast memory access.

"Regarding DVD playback, I am not certain it will be included in the future. However, it is definitely possible and since SCEI has made Anamorphic Widescreen Progressive Scan output available for game it only makes sense to add it to the next release of the DVD Drivers."

http://www.gamers.com/news/1126169

So can anyone confirm the supported resolutions on the PS2?

I assuming the bare minimum of 480p, if this is true. Can it do others as well?

-Naan

SONY PS2 Video Output Modes
 

According to the data for the PS2 LInux Kit the PS2 hardware is capable of supporting all of the following video modes......

Standard
NTSC/PAL interlaced and non-interlaced

DTV
480P, 720P, 1080i

VESA modes
640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 at 60/75 Hz

The Vesa modes are listed because the PS2 Linux kit includes a VGA out.

It's interesting to point out that Sony's VESA modes don't match up with their DTV modes ( which SHOULD match up)

640x480 works out to 480 (i or p)
But the neither the 800x600 nor the 1024x768 equal the 720p standard
And the 1280x1024 does not equal the 1080i standard.


As far as the comment about the "New Libraries" and full frame buffering. These were pretty much a given.
Sony had flat stated at last years E3 that there were things the PS2 could do that they hadn't shared with developers yet ( Remember Sega's "Prefered developer" program with the Saturn?).

VESA is a set of standards to connect to PC monitors. the video output is in RGB, and the typical connection uses a DB15 cable, or "VGA" cable.

DTV is a set of standards to connect to digital TVs. the video output is in YCbCr, and the typical connection here uses component video cables.

VESA and DTV are completely different beasts, although expensive HDTV sets may accept both types of video inputs.

their respective display resolutions do not match up at all. for example DTV @ 480p specifies 720 pixels x 480 scanlines at 60 progressive frames per second. this is not the same as the VESA base resolution @ 640x480.

525p translates to 480p. The next highest resolution after 480p is 720p.