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Happy dance for joy! (Zelda related)

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Happy dance for joy! (Zelda related)

Old 02-22-02, 11:45 PM
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Happy dance for joy! (Zelda related)

I don't know how I missed this:

From cube.ign:
Miyamoto denied rumors of another Zelda GameCube makeover. "The rumors about a more realistic style of graphics on the Internet are incorrect. The version that will be playable on E3, has an almost identical style to the version we first showed at Space World 2001," the Nintendo designer said. "I did change Link's eyes a little bit, however."
...ok, maybe the thread title is exaggerated, but this should improve Link's appearance quite a bit.
Old 02-23-02, 12:04 AM
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I saw this a day or two ago. I'm a little dissapointed because I'm not a fan of Cel Shaded graphics, but then again maybe they just rub me the wrong way because I hated Jet Grind Radio so much.

At any rate it's the gameplay that matters, and Zelda's always been king in that department. And not reworking it should ensure that it's out before the end of the year. I say it will come out on Nov. 18, the one year anniversary of the GCN's launch and just in time for the holidays.

Should be a great year for Nintendo with Star Fox and Eternal Darkness in June. Mario likely in Sept or so and Zelda around the holidays. I would be amazed to see more than one of these get pushed to next year, and personally think they'll all ship this year. Nintendo know's this is the time to get a jump on Microsoft. I look for them to steal the show at E3, sell a bunch of consoles with the launch of Star Fox and ED, and a ton more with Mario and Zelda, and be firmly in second place by X-mas. I don't think there's anyway they can catch sony though.
Old 02-23-02, 01:55 AM
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Jet Grind was a bit of a pain in the ass, but I have to admit the cel shading works for me, I like it alot. People might bitch about the new zelda look, but me i like it.

todd
Old 02-23-02, 02:06 AM
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I'm not sure Star Fox or ED would sell any consoles, but I'm sure if they get their shite together by Xmas and have the well-known games out, they will do very well.
Old 02-23-02, 02:51 AM
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Hurrah! I read this last week as well. Its good to see that they aren't changing the graphics over that silly internet poll . But there was another part of the interview that caught my attention:

"...you can only truly understand it once you play it...." "I see it this way: if the game is interesting, you might start to value the graphics as well."

Now thats the kind of attitude I like to see, gameplay first and graphics second!
Old 02-23-02, 02:54 AM
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As long as they changed the design of Link....I'm happy. And they did...very happy
Old 02-23-02, 08:49 AM
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i think the cell shaded zelda could work. zelda games have always had excellent gameplay, which is first and foremost the most important thing. as long as the game holds up to zelda standards with a great mix of puzzles, fighting, and exploring. I will be happy.

i also think all four of the "system sellers" will ship this year.

edited to add: i too am glad they changed link, his eyes looked a little weird to me.
Old 02-23-02, 10:19 AM
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How could anybody not like Jet Grind Radio? Okay, Rob Zombie was on the soundtrack, but that was it. I admit, I didn't like the new look Link right away after seeing what I thought was heaven itself at Spaceworld 2000. But I haven't played a Zelda game that let me down, so I imagine it'll be a lot of fun.
Old 02-23-02, 10:40 AM
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I think having a realistic fantasy approach would be darn tooting cool.

That said, I don't have issues with "Celda" either. If you look at the graphics the enviorment and character are right out of the SNES version, just in really cool cartoonish 3d.

It's definitly Miyamoto's vision coming into "maturity" right there. There's no doubt the game will be awesome, the fact that it appears to be based in the same world as the SNES version has my saliva flowing already.
Old 02-23-02, 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Outlaw
Hurrah! I read this last week as well. Its good to see that they aren't changing the graphics over that silly internet poll . But there was another part of the interview that caught my attention:

"...you can only truly understand it once you play it...." "I see it this way: if the game is interesting, you might start to value the graphics as well."

Now thats the kind of attitude I like to see, gameplay first and graphics second!
Blah. How can anyone suggest that graphics and gameplay are completely separate functions. Visuals have a fundamental effect on the overall game experience.

Sure, bump mapping, and particle effects, and colored lighting, and lens flare, and volumetric smoke are usually just extra flourishes to make a game nice to look at. But it's a pretty safe bet, even with only screenshots to look at, that cel shaded Zelda and realistic Zelda would play very differently. And why on earth would cel shaded Zelda have better "gameplay" than the realistic one?

The fact is, the Gamecube needs to be working to throw off its reputation as a toy for kids, and Nintendo doesn't seem to be trying hard enough.

I think they're also screwing up Mario and Metroid. The Mario game doesn't look like Mario anymore. There are a lot of 3D platformers out there, and Mario's key advantage is that it's Mario. But the Mushroom Kingdom doesn't look like the Mushroom Kingdom anymore, and that drinking bird on Mario's back suggests a new gameplay dynamic, which sucks, because I want to butt-stomp enemies, punch question-mark boxes and ride around on Yoshi.

As for Metroid, it's a first person shooter now, and it's been passed on to an American developer. Will it still be Metroid when they're done with it? I sure hope so.

I was very close to buying a gamecube a couple of weeks ago, but with VF 4 coming out soon, and the GC trailing in sales, I couldn't justify it. If some amazing games are announced, or if the XBox flops in Japan, maybe I'll buy the GC. But, for now, Resident Evil isn't a series I care about, and the classics I grew up with are looking less and less like must-haves.
Old 02-23-02, 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by ScandalUMD




I think they're also screwing up Mario and Metroid. The Mario game doesn't look like Mario anymore. There are a lot of 3D platformers out there, and Mario's key advantage is that it's Mario. But the Mushroom Kingdom doesn't look like the Mushroom Kingdom anymore, and that drinking bird on Mario's back suggests a new gameplay dynamic, which sucks, because I want to butt-stomp enemies, punch question-mark boxes and ride around on Yoshi.

As for Metroid, it's a first person shooter now, and it's been passed on to an American developer. Will it still be Metroid when they're done with it? I sure hope so.
Hmm... Afraid of change are we?

The things you are saying are the exact same things people said when Mario came to N64. They even said that about Super Mario World for the SNES. ("Mario is going to fly?!?! $#%$#!") Do not judge a game before you play it, exspecially when no one else even has. You can't even base your opinion on someone elses.

You have to remember, this game is headed by Shigeru Miyamoto, not Edios. In other words, he's not going to pump a game onto the market with the same exact gameplay to simply make money. (ala tomb raider) It's his universe that he creates, let him innovate it the way he see's fit, he has yet to let us down.

Originally posted by ScandalUMD

I was very close to buying a gamecube a couple of weeks ago, but with VF 4 coming out soon, and the GC trailing in sales, I couldn't justify it. If some amazing games are announced, or if the XBox flops in Japan, maybe I'll buy the GC. But, for now, Resident Evil isn't a series I care about, and the classics I grew up with are looking less and less like must-haves.
1st thing, the GC is not going to fail if that's your "true" concern.
2nd, do what you must, but you will be missing out. If you have the money and enjoy games, I think you would be foolish not to own a GC.

just my opinions.
Old 02-23-02, 04:54 PM
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They even said that about Super Mario World for the SNES. ("Mario is going to fly?!?! $#%$#!")
They did?? Why?? Mario has flown since Mario 2 (magic carpet) and flew a lot in Mario 3 (Squirrel's Tail).
Old 02-23-02, 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig


They did?? Why?? Mario has flown since Mario 2 (magic carpet) and flew a lot in Mario 3 (Squirrel's Tail).
Not the same thing. With the cape mario was basically able to cover an entire board. (This was able to be done with the P-wing? in #3) It just received alot of criticism before it came out, because people didn't understand fully how it would work. People assumed you would be able to fly straight over boards with no work.

This wasn't the case however. You needed ample running room, and would slowly "drift" downward. There was a large fuss over it in EGM and Gamepro at the time.

I probally should have worded it better. I'm sorry. I simply meant, people were flipping out about "features" and "gameplay" before they even knew what they were and how they worked. People tend to fear change. But the truth is, great things can become even better with proper design, talant, and work. IMO
Old 02-23-02, 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by jeffdsmith

People assumed you would be able to fly straight over boards with no work.

This wasn't the case however. You needed ample running room, and would slowly "drift" downward.
This is a complete non-sequitur, but you can fly straight through many levels in Super Mario World; you can gain altitude with the cape.
Old 02-23-02, 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by jeffdsmith


Hmm... Afraid of change are we?

The things you are saying are the exact same things people said when Mario came to N64. They even said that about Super Mario World for the SNES. ("Mario is going to fly?!?! $#%$#!") Do not judge a game before you play it, exspecially when no one else even has. You can't even base your opinion on someone elses.

You have to remember, this game is headed by Shigeru Miyamoto, not Edios. In other words, he's not going to pump a game onto the market with the same exact gameplay to simply make money. (ala tomb raider) It's his universe that he creates, let him innovate it the way he see's fit, he has yet to let us down.

Afraid of change? No. But I'm not seeing anything compelling that I need to own in these new iterations. If I want to play an innovative platformer, Naughty Dog is churning them out on PS2. I love Mario games, I want to play a Mario game, but Mario seems displaced in Mario Sunshine. It looks good, but, much like Luigi's Mansion, I worry that Mario won't work in his new context. It seems like the Gamecube is severing Nintendo's best licenses with their history. The new Metroid may be a good shooter, but if the gameplay is not Metroid, then it's nothing special. There are plenty of good shooters. If Zelda is a good adventure game, but doesn't feel like Zelda anymore, I can pass on it. Miyamoto is great, but there are a lot of other top-notch developers out there, and there is something very specific that Nintendo has always offered, and that the competition could not. If the Gamecube throws that away, I think it would be a big mistake.



1st thing, the GC is not going to fail if that's your "true" concern.
2nd, do what you must, but you will be missing out. If you have the money and enjoy games, I think you would be foolish not to own a GC.

just my opinions.
I have a video game console. I need a really good reason to buy a second video game console. I could, for example, put that money towards a better television or home theater. Or even save it. The Gamecube may not be the best time to be a Nintendo fan, especially if many of the best developers are being focused on the GBA, Nintendo's real cash cow. I suspect Rare has a secret project or two to announce at E3, and I'll probably get a GC then. But for now, things look pretty sparse.
Old 02-23-02, 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by ScandalUMD


Blah. How can anyone suggest that graphics and gameplay are completely separate functions. Visuals have a fundamental effect on the overall game experience.

Sure, bump mapping, and particle effects, and colored lighting, and lens flare, and volumetric smoke are usually just extra flourishes to make a game nice to look at. But it's a pretty safe bet, even with only screenshots to look at, that cel shaded Zelda and realistic Zelda would play very differently. And why on earth would cel shaded Zelda have better "gameplay" than the realistic one?
What I was saying that its good that they are looking at gameplay over the graphics. I do think that graphics play a role in how games (I enjoy games that look great too!) are but even games that aren't technically graphical are good for my tastes. Like Super Mario Advance 2 doesn't look as good as Mario 64, but its damn good. SMB has very simplistic graphics but it makes up for it in the challenging gameplay. I meant that recently it seems like developers seem only concerned with how good graphics are, how many polygons per sec, etc. and in the end the games come up short in terms of playability, but I don't think I explaining well in my one sentence hehe. I also think the reason they can make Metroid into an FPS game is because metroid is more popular in the US than in Japan, and since FPS games are more popular in the US as well the game may be more appealing to people (not me though I don't like FPS games with the exception of a few, but I'll wait till I play it). My gaming tastes are pretty spread out though.


....I don't even know what bump mapping or volumetric smoke is .
Old 02-23-02, 11:36 PM
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Just for the record:
You could fly over a full board in Mario 3 with the tail. As long as you tapped on the controller enough. The P-Wing eventualy ran out and you'd fall. But if you ran then flew you could skip a full board. Used to do it alot on board 1-3, just to get to the warp wistle.

And Metroid will be cool.
May not be Metroid, but thats because the original Metroid creator died in a car wreck soon after the release of Super Metroid.
Besides, the Metroid Trillogy came to a good close. The 3 games make a good triplet. Time for a new Story.
Old 02-23-02, 11:54 PM
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If I want to play an innovative platformer, Naughty Dog is churning them out on PS2.


The new Metroid may be a good shooter, but if the gameplay is not Metroid, then it's nothing special.
Mario 64 was very different than previous Mario games but no one seemed to mind so I don't see why people can't come to love Metroid's new style.

Miyamoto is great, but there are a lot of other top-notch developers out there
No one can even approach Miyamoto's legacy of great games.

The Gamecube may not be the best time to be a Nintendo fan
Until Nintendo stops making games every new day is the best is the best time to be Nintendo fan.

ScandalUMD: If you want to be anti-Nintendo, that's fine. You could at least come up with a half-way decent reason though.
Old 02-24-02, 01:05 AM
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Also long as everyone is ranting on all the upcoming Nintendo games…I'll add some personal opinion

I don't understand why everyone is crying over the destruction of Metroid. This new game looks very awesome. It has this gloomy, eerie and ominous feel to it (e.g.i Aliens…or something like that) I think the combination of FPS and 3rd person is going to work great for this game. I have all fate that this game will be one of Nintendo's future best sellers.

However, I don't have a positive feeling for Mario. Have you seen those new pics? It looked like $hit. It was as if we took a step back from Mario 64. Plus the whole…collecting falling paint seems stupid. I imagine that this game is going through developer hell. Why else wouldn't a Mario game welcome the arrival of a new system? (no fact, all opinion) Anyway this game I think is going to be a huge kick in the balls for Nintendo. I wouldn't worry about Celda as much as Mario.

Well Celda is at this pivotal point where it's either hit or miss. The hardcore fans will buy it up fast while the skeptical gamers will wait with caution and the teen group will make fun of any of there friends playing this game instead of kickin' back on the bomb PS2 GTA4(toon shading is for babies bro haha)


Well that's my rant for upcoming flag ship Nintendo games.

…..oh yea…

What games does Rare have on the drawing board?
Old 02-24-02, 01:15 AM
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The way I see it, we could have had Mario at Gamecube's launch or several Nintendo titles at and around launch. Just imagine how people would be complaining right now if the only titles they had for the Cube were Mario, Rogue Leader, Super Monkey Ball, and a few multiplatform 3rd party titles.

However, I don't have a positive feeling for Mario. Have you seen those new pics? It looked like $hit. It was as if we took a step back from Mario 64.
You might want to wear a diaper when E3 rolls around.
Old 02-24-02, 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by White Knight
Plus the whole…collecting falling paint seems stupid.
What do you mean? The only gameplay aspects I've heard about are that the tank on his back is a water cannon or something. What do you mean by collecting paint?? Did I miss something??
Old 02-24-02, 11:33 AM
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Look,
I'm not very good at "making a point" nor do I really care. I'm simply saying that the points you made don't really stack up, and basically sounds like you are just anti-nintendo. (aka trolling) If you don't like Nintendo, thats fine, but don't try and pass it off as something else.
My whole point is that you nor me, or anyone is any position to judge two games that have less then a minute of combined footage and 10 screen shots. So just ease up until there is some solid info and the game is playable. (E3)
It is definitly a great time to be a Nintendo fan, to say otherwise is foolish. It's not just my opinion, look down the pipeline at all the great games the GC has coming. Nintendo may still do several things wrong or different dpending on how you look at it, but they still make AAA games every time, and there are more coming to GC then any previous system. (In otherwords, if you like Nintendo, you are going to have a lot of Nintendo made games on it's newest system)

I am done talking about this.


And Chaos you did miss something, there have been several recent interviews over a PGC worth reading. But I don't believe Mario is "collecting" paint, I thought he was washing it off or something. But I could be mistaken.
Old 02-24-02, 12:37 PM
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I just got some interesting info one email regarding nintendo. I guess it can be considered good news, but the letter itself is sent out by Gamers.com. Pretty interesting, oh yeah, the link doesn't work, sorry.
WHY NINTENDO? WHY?
If you get angry about why magazines like Electronic Gaming Monthly
or GameNow don't give you enough coverage about the Nintendo games
you're excited about...it's because Nintendo doesn't want you to
know. I won't bore you with the politics of this, but you should be
aware that our friends at Nintendo are extremely obstructive when
it comes to giving us the means to tell you about upcoming games.

We're all just as excited about Star Fox Adventures, Metroid Prime
and of course Mario and Zelda as well, but right now it seems that
no one at Nintendo wants you to find out any information about
them. Why? I have no real idea aside from crazy company politics.

That said, when information does slip out to the press through
avenues other than the ubiquitous www.nintendo.com, it's a pleasant
surprise. This week, the excellent Computer & Video Games website
scored a fairly extensive interview with Miyamoto in which he
covered a lot of ground. We have a link to the site from our news
section on Gamers.com:
http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-b...pf30GJu0fIR0AG

Basically, from the piece we learn a number of things. 1) Don't
expect much online action from Nintendo, 2) We can expect more than
just kid games on the Cube, 3) There are more colored systems
coming (orange, at last, how did we survive without it?), and 4)
the recently announced TriForce arcade board is a big deal.

Wait? TriForce? Isn't that the thing from Zelda? Well, yes...but
it's also the name of the fabulous new arcade gear that's the
result of a bowel-looseningly cool partnership between Nintendo,
Sega and Namco (three companies, TriForce, geddit?). Miyamoto was
cagey about projects that would appear on the arcade board, but did
say that games produced would eventually find their way to the
Cube, and that when an announcement is made in March or April it
will be a "surprise."

This last comment of course has prompted some exuberant theorizing
on what could be on the way, given the partnership of companies
involved. Among the editors here, most of this speculation has
involved variations on the "Versus" theme. Something like Tekken
vs. Virtua Fighter, perhaps? A Smash Bros with major franchise
characters from each company? Something that has all the Smash
Bros. cast, the VF fighters, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, ToeJam, Earl,
Ulala, the dudes from Jet Set, the Tekken fighters, Klonoa, the Pac
family, the potential list is endless.

When you consider the wealth of video game culture and history that
these three companies represent, the possibilities for crossover
games are just incredible. And endless. Who knows what will happen
though? Given recent history, probably the last thing on Earth
you'd expect. After launching the Cube with Luigi of all people,
we'll no doubt see, oh I dunno, something with Toad, Tails and the
dude from Dragon Valor in it.
Old 02-24-02, 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by jeffdsmith
basically sounds like you are just anti-nintendo. (aka trolling) If you don't like Nintendo, thats fine, but don't try and pass it off as something else.
One thing is for sure...I'm not in anyway "anti-Nintendo". I've been a true fan since the late 70's. I think some of the criteria to be "anti-Nintendo" would be 1.)not to purchase Nintendo systems(that's a negitoury for me) 2. Staying away from any 1st party Nintendo game (damn think I have all of them)

I would deem myself analytical when it comes to games. I wouldn't consider someone anti-Nintendo if they aren't blinded with only the name of Nintendo when it comes to view a games content. I would view them as an educated gamer. Just because it has Nintendo's seal slapped on doesn't always make it a great game (it just happens that way it seems, all being AAA games)

Originally posted by jeffdsmith
My whole point is that you nor me, or anyone is any position to judge two games that have less then a minute of combined footage and 10 screen shots. So just ease up until there is some solid info and the game is playable. (E3)
First of all Mario has to be very close to finishing development…Those pictures are near the end product. From the look of them it doesn't look very interesting. It looks like a combination of luigi and the rendered graphics from Mario karts 64. You know what I'm talking about …those blurry characters that weren't polygons.



Look at the background…blurry. Maybe they're trying to show depth but I don’t know. I do agree with ya I should wait until E3 where a playable version will be available- but my antenna is up on this game.

Originally posted by jeffdsmith
And Chaos you did miss something, there have been several recent interviews over a PGC worth reading. But I don't believe Mario is "collecting" paint, I thought he was washing it off or something. But I could be mistaken.

collecting/find the paint yes. But it is falling...and you're washing something...sounds exciting Wonder if they'll throw in a wet t-shirt contest with Peach and Zelda?
Old 02-24-02, 02:08 PM
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This thread is making me second guess my purchase of the Virtual Boy

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